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Bookcat
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Timeless God cannot know the current time hence cannot sustain the creation
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DCNBILL
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wadramli
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I don’t really remember how many moments of time there was . I think they were either 40 in an hour or 40 in the whole day . check canonical hours . I think you will find that present immediacy means instantly , when the shadow falls on the line exactly.
now /present immediacy could also mean you are seeing it at your now . you know nlike you’re reading something that happened to someone . it happened to him in the past but your knoweldge of it is in youfr now . right? future too. it is going to happne to him but your knoweldge is now to you. something like that
Present is actually is another word for now . they are substitutable .
now is an instant between past and the future . It is far out to say that god is timeless and then claim he can’t know now . if there is no past nor future then there is no now . you say there is no now and then say now can’t be known. Back to something out of nothing .
You young guys want to drive an old man nuts .lol.
Of course you’re a Persian. That “sustain creation “ was a dead give away .
Some of the nicest people I’ve known were Persians . there is however just one small problem with them. It’s called pistachios. This is a dangerous food . once you start eating them you can’t stop. Another thing , in gym do no let them trick you into wrestling match with them. They are good at wrestling . Insist on boxing. they don’t box that good .
That was back during the early days of the revolution. Invariably all the Persians students came from folks were either allied or outwardly allied to the shah . one of Iranian students father was an intellectual , a very learned man. Tragically he was one of those liquidated in the early days of the revolution. He brought the family once a year to visit and brought the pistachios . he would give us some and the rest to his son. His son used to hide them. But we searched and preserved and always found where he hid them and we ate them all.
Bahman is actually a good opportunity to learn about the mind set over there and vice versa . he thinks in terms of opposites . god is either timeless or time bound .
You know they say that the very structure of our brain as adults was partially shaped by the information that was fed to it in the past . so they are talking about built in wiring. Instances of Muslims suffering nervous breakdown when being converted to Christianity.
There is a serous error in the quran . it says be and it is being - present continuous . in the bible it is be and it was . in the quran it says Kon fa yakon . in the bible it is Kon fa kan . the error is both grammatical and logical in the quran. The problem they can’t fix it . it’s too late because they maintain the quran was sort of downloaded from above . it was dictated , a concept that is rejected in Christianity.the bible has a human and divine nature sort of thing , inspired .
There is an old quran that was found in Yemen that differs from the current one. Very sensitive issue .
work on it . work hard
now /present immediacy could also mean you are seeing it at your now . you know nlike you’re reading something that happened to someone . it happened to him in the past but your knoweldge of it is in youfr now . right? future too. it is going to happne to him but your knoweldge is now to you. something like that
Present is actually is another word for now . they are substitutable .
now is an instant between past and the future . It is far out to say that god is timeless and then claim he can’t know now . if there is no past nor future then there is no now . you say there is no now and then say now can’t be known. Back to something out of nothing .
You young guys want to drive an old man nuts .lol.
Of course you’re a Persian. That “sustain creation “ was a dead give away .
Some of the nicest people I’ve known were Persians . there is however just one small problem with them. It’s called pistachios. This is a dangerous food . once you start eating them you can’t stop. Another thing , in gym do no let them trick you into wrestling match with them. They are good at wrestling . Insist on boxing. they don’t box that good .
That was back during the early days of the revolution. Invariably all the Persians students came from folks were either allied or outwardly allied to the shah . one of Iranian students father was an intellectual , a very learned man. Tragically he was one of those liquidated in the early days of the revolution. He brought the family once a year to visit and brought the pistachios . he would give us some and the rest to his son. His son used to hide them. But we searched and preserved and always found where he hid them and we ate them all.
Bahman is actually a good opportunity to learn about the mind set over there and vice versa . he thinks in terms of opposites . god is either timeless or time bound .
You know they say that the very structure of our brain as adults was partially shaped by the information that was fed to it in the past . so they are talking about built in wiring. Instances of Muslims suffering nervous breakdown when being converted to Christianity.
There is a serous error in the quran . it says be and it is being - present continuous . in the bible it is be and it was . in the quran it says Kon fa yakon . in the bible it is Kon fa kan . the error is both grammatical and logical in the quran. The problem they can’t fix it . it’s too late because they maintain the quran was sort of downloaded from above . it was dictated , a concept that is rejected in Christianity.the bible has a human and divine nature sort of thing , inspired .
There is an old quran that was found in Yemen that differs from the current one. Very sensitive issue .
work on it . work hard
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Bahman
Guest
This is really very inconsistent assertion: God is outside of time yet he knows what is the time and can enter time anytime he wishes!
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Bookcat
Guest
Again your thinking of God as a big version of yourself - in another room - watching the world on a big-screen TV.This is really very inconsistent assertion: God is outside of time yet he knows what is the time and can enter time anytime he wishes!
God is God. All that exists - exists by God. Not as a “starting things and then see what happens”. That is not God. Such is a mistaken notion.
All that exists - exists by God. God is the creator. *All that exists - are “contingent” upon God. *
And God does not know as you or I know. * God knows as God - and knows all that is. It would not be if God did not cause* it to be from moment to moment.
*
Your thinking of God as a big version of yourself - in another room - watching the world on a big-screen TV and uninvolved in creation.*
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Bahman
Guest
How God could know now if he knows all moments simultaneously?
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Bookcat
Guest
Your difficulty is your imagining yourself as God.How God could know now if he knows all moments simultaneously?
You are a contingent creature in time. God is not.
Your not God. God is.
Your not causing everything to be that is - in every moment. God is.
And
God does NOT know things the way we know them!
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Bookcat
Guest
Again your trying to make God into a creature in time…your using your personal experience existing here in creation with its laws and experience and trying to apply that to God as if God was like you here…
Next you will be trying to apply gravity to God.
Next you will be trying to apply gravity to God.
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Bahman
Guest
This doesn’t explain anything.Your difficulty is your imagining yourself as God.
You are a contingent creature in time. God is not.
Your not God. God is.
Your not causing everything to be that is - in every moment. God is.
And
God does NOT know things the way we know them!
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Bookcat
Guest
It does.This doesn’t explain anything.
And it explains why your having trouble here.
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Bookcat
Guest
Again your trying to make God into a creature in time…your using your personal experience existing here in creation with its laws and experience and trying to apply that to God as if God was like you here…
Next you will be trying to apply gravity to God.
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Bahman
Guest
How he could? God knows all moments among them one is now and the rest is either past or future. knowledge of now requires subjectivity over time which is impossible for a changeless God.
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Bookcat
Guest
God* causes* – all moments.How God could know now if he knows all moments simultaneously?
Those moments would not exist - all the aspects of creatures there in - would not exist if God did not know them.
And God does not know things the way you and I know them.
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Bookcat
Guest
It is* not* that there is: Now and Past and Future and God is there “in Now” and is there “in Now” knowing Past and Future.How he could? God knows all moments among them one is now and the rest is either past or future. knowledge of now requires subjectivity over time which is impossible for a changeless God.
Rather all that is - our now or the past or the future - is all known by God.
God is the cause of all that exists - all moments are part of creation.
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Bookcat
Guest
When we speak of the “now” of God - that all past present and future for us is like a now to God - such is NOT making a kind of “time” for God. It is trying by analogy to express in human language something that is not so well expressed in such.How he could? God knows all moments among them one is now and the rest is either past or future. knowledge of now requires subjectivity over time which is impossible for a changeless God.
That is part of the confusion here Bahman - your thinking of God as if God were in some kind of “time”. The language has confused you there.
All of time is “before God” - to use another analogy - as if “physically there before God”. All creation - all time- all that is. Again analogies limp.
And again remember it is not as if God was just watching all this on a Big screen TV. God is intimately involved in all that is - indeed it would not continue to be without God.
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Bahman
Guest
You didn’t answer my simple question: How God could differentiate now from all other moments?It is* not* that there is: Now and Past and Future and God is there “in Now” and is there “in Now” knowing Past and Future.
Rather all that is - our now or the past or the future - is all known by God.
God is the cause of all that exists - all moments are part of creation.
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Bookcat
Guest
If I have an apple and and orange and a tomato on a desk in front of me.You didn’t answer my simple question: How God could differentiate now from all other moments?
How can I differentiate the apple from the orange and the tomato?
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Bahman
Guest
But now changes hence what is now, for example apple changes by time, which means that your knowledge of what is apple changes by time too. This means that your knowledge is time-bound.If I have an apple and and orange and a tomato on a desk in front of me.
How can I differentiate the apple from the orange and the tomato?
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Bookcat
Guest
Answer my question please.
If I have an apple and and orange and a tomato on a desk in front of me.
How can I differentiate the apple from the orange and the tomato?
(Forget about time.)
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DCNBILL
Guest
You are correct but I am not God and you are not God and if I am a creature of God, I do not have a frame of reference for how God is, except as He reveals Himself to me.But now changes hence what is now, for example apple changes by time, which means that your knowledge of what is apple changes by time too. This means that your knowledge is time-bound.
Please address this issue. Why do you, as a creation of God, want to tell God how He must be, when you do not even comprehend yourself to the fullest?
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