B
Bookcat
Guest
I have answered.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Timeless God cannot know the current time hence cannot sustain the creation
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
B
Bahman
Guest
That is the definition of timeless.Catechism (600):
“To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy”
B
Bookcat
Guest
Well then all is sorted out. And the mistake in the premise of the thread is undone.That is the definition of timeless.
B
Bookcat
Guest
Well then I guess the mistaken premise in the title of the thread is now seen for the mistaken premise that it was.That is the definition of timeless.
B
Bahman
Guest
What mistake you are talking about?Well then I guess the mistaken premise in the title of the thread is now seen for the mistaken premise that it was.
B
Bookcat
Guest
Timeless God cannot know the current time - is mistaken premise.What mistake you are talking about?
hence cannot sustain the creation -*mistake conclusion. *
As you now state:
andTimeless is equal to outside of time.
So God being outside of time and thus “all moments of time are present (to God) in their immediacy” - it is an incorrect premise to say that God cannot know the current time.Bookcat: “To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy”
Bahman: That is the definition of timeless. .
You cannot say “Water is H2 and O” “but Water cannot involve O”.
B
Bahman
Guest
God cannot distinguish between now and all other moments if all moments of time are present to him. Hence the premise and conclusion are correct.Timeless God cannot know the current time - is mistaken premise.
hence cannot sustain the creation -*mistake conclusion. *
As you now state:
and
So God being outside of time and thus “all moments of time are present (to God) in their immediacy” - it is an incorrect premise to say that God cannot know the current time.
You cannot say “Water is H2 and O” “but Water cannot involve O”.
B
Bookcat
Guest
Your not talking about God.God cannot distinguish between now and all other moments if all moments of time are present to him. Hence the premise and conclusion are correct.
God quite well knows everything.
If God did not know it - it would not be.
No your premise and conclusion is quite incorrect.
Your setting up a straw man …or rather a straw god.
And not discussing God.
B
Bahman
Guest
I am exactly talking about your God.Your not talking about God.
Except the current time since the knowledge of current time which is attached the current state of creation changes by time.God quite well knows everything.
God’s knowledge is static since it is constant. It cannot change by time.If God did not know it - it would not be.
Hmmm.No your premise and conclusion is quite incorrect.
Your setting up a straw man …or rather a straw god.
And not discussing God.
B
Bookcat
Guest
Nope.I am exactly talking about your God.
B
Bookcat
Guest
Your contradicting your own posts.Except the current time since the knowledge of current time which is attached the current state of creation changes by time.
You already admitted your “timeless” means: “To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy” as the CCC notes.
All moments – involve* all *moments.
Present includes ….present.
B
Bookcat
Guest
NopeGod’s knowledge is static since it is constant.
.
Again your not approaching God as God.
Your setting up a straw -god from your ideas.
Not discussing God.
B
Bahman
Guest
I am not contradicting my post. How God could distinguish between now and other moments if everything is present to him? This knowledge brings subjectivity over time.Your contradicting your own posts.
You already admitted your “timeless” means: “To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy” as the CCC notes.
All moments – involve* all *moments.
Present includes ….present.
B
Bookcat
Guest
You are.I am not contradicting my post. How God could distinguish between now and other moments if everything is present to him? This knowledge brings subjectivity over time.
I posted from the CCC:
“To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy”
and you said:
“That is the definition of timeless.”
So you accepted that: “To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy”
In answer to your above question:
You are again trying to think of God as not being God. But being a bigger version of you in time.
God is not a creature. God is God.
God* does not know things the way you know things*. Period.
Until you accept that you will keep hitting your wall there…
But as long as you keep trying to think of God as if God was just a bigger more powerful version of you. You will not.
B
Bahman
Guest
God is God is not really an argument. And you are not answering my objection. How God could distinguish between now and other moments if all moments are present to him?You are.
I posted from the CCC:
“To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy”
and you said:
“That is the definition of timeless.”
So you accepted that: “To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy”
In answer to your above question:
You are again trying to think of God as not being God. But being a bigger version of you in time.
God is not a creature. God is God.
God* does not know things the way you know things*. Period.
Until you accept that you will keep hitting your wall there…
But as long as you keep trying to think of God as if God was just a bigger more powerful version of you. You will not.
B
Bookcat
Guest
I have responded to you many times.God is God is not really an argument. And you are not answering my objection. How God could distinguish between now and other moments if all moments are present to him?
Because God is God.
God does not know things as you know them.
God is not just a bigger version of you.
No moment would exist - without God.
If God does not know a moment - it would not exist.
B
Bahman
Guest
I agree with the fact that God knows any moment but that is not answer to my question. How God could distinguish between now and other moments if all moments are present to him?I have responded to you many times.
Because God is God.
God does not know things as you know them.
God is not just a bigger version of you.
No moment would exist - without God.
If God does not know a moment - it would not exist.
B
Bookcat
Guest
They are not simply present to him…I agree with the fact that God knows any moment but that is not answer to my question. How God could distinguish between now and other moments if all moments are present to him?
He is not watching some really special TV…
And they are not known to God as some object is known to us. God does not know like we know.
If God did not know them -* they would not exist*. They would not be.
Again you keep wanting to think of God as if God were not God but a creature like us (to refer again to the bicycle- car analogy - you keep wanting to ask how the car can go if the peddles do not turn round and round).
B
Bookcat
Guest
Yes I basically noted this up above…
So I let him use the term.
But yes I agree - it ought not really be “timeless”.
but then our interlocutor accepted the CCC’s description…Timeless? No I would not use that term.
God is outside of time.
All of time and space - all of creation is “God’s”
God is God of all that is. All of time included.
So not I would not use the phrase “God is time- less”.
All of time is created and sustained etc by God.
All that is - including time - is created by God.
Tis contingent upon God. Tis “given”.
Without God it would not be. There would be no be.
and here forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=12860150&postcount=159Timeless is equal to outside of time.
Originally Posted by Bookcat View Post
Catechism (600):
“To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy”
Bahman: That is the definition of timeless.
So I let him use the term.
But yes I agree - it ought not really be “timeless”.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.