Timeless God cannot know the current time hence cannot sustain the creation

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hi bahman . frankly after that " eternal now "of yours i don’t know what to think . how do you say in english . Flabbergasted ?

try again . time is just is a way to measure . time is not matter . for example if i say it is 8 am then that means the clock handle circled around 8 times for you for the other guy and for all those who follow our time scale . that’s all

I know what’s in your mind but you need to figure out yourself …

what is sustain creation?
 
DCNBILL said:
The bold statement above is almost correct but God in not confined to the eternal now. He has all of eternity to dwell on any particular “now” that he wishes because all of time, which is His creation, is before Him for all eternity.
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Timeless God can only perform one act which is the act of creation which is eternal hence he cannot dwell in any particular “now” as he wishes.
 
Bahman said:
Timeless God can only perform one act which is the act of creation which is eternal hence he cannot dwell in any particular “now” as he wishes.
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Hence such an idea is not about God as God. And thus not God as Christians know God and believe in God and reason about God.

But is trying again to put God into some new “time” and be “confined” where as God is not “confined”.

As the Catechism notes: “To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy.” (600)
 
Okay , lets finish

We knew that you can transfer information instantaneously from way back as far back as almost a century ago . as an illustration , I write A on a board and on another board a different board at a different location A gets written on that board at the same time by itself. I write C on the one board and C appears on the other board simultaneously.

Einstein called it spooky. It was spooky stuff to him .

They built or were building a an underground tunnel somewhere in Europe . one of the experiment to be conducted was to transfer information at a hundred thousand times faster than light .

In that formula I referred to earlier about the discrepancy in time between two observes moving at high speed there is a square root of difference. If the velocity exceeds that of light then you get a negative square root. That established that speed of light to be a natural barrier .

The Lord almighty said let there be light . you can not go faster than light not unless you slow it down . but you can’t go past its highest speed or even come close . but see in the light itself lies the means of instant transfer of info. Zero time . timeless transfer .

forget about timeless what we know is so fantastical that if I were to tell you , you will think its nuts your mind will refuse to accept it. .so I’m not going to tell you . many folds spookier

for a human yes by the time you tell now the handle will have moved . but with light you can rig it so transfer is instant . the handle of the clock hasn’t moved .

the answers are all in the bible but what does it take to figure it out ? . I will tell you .

Back in the day there were four of us , three guys and one girl. We the guys were best of the best and she was what we liked to call slow on the take dumb genius with pudding stuffed between the ears . simple stuff she couldn’t figure . we had to show her. . her task was to go to the lecture and copy the lecture while we boozed and gambled at the club. Then we read the stuff and explain it to her and what we couldn’t figure out there were tutors we went to see who explained them . The lectures often times were conveyed by visiting professors. Hundreds of students attended. Cutting edge stuff back then. Not in the books. they put it on the board . no internet back then. Tedious process back then. We were sharp . crack problems just like that . but when we got stuck we got stuck. Then it was her turn. She took over from there . one time we were assigned to solve a practice problem and the only you could do it was if you knew a certain theorem. It was not known to us . over the weekend she actually reproduced that formulation from scratch . original approach and all. some people spend a life time trying to do what she did and they fail. She had the gift . she died in car accident . She was pregnant . a Annabelle lee in the kingdom by the sea.

you can’t give what you ain’t got . eternal now and dwell is i guess fun way . . but you got to wait for the real deal
 
Bahman said:
Timeless God can only perform one act which is the act of creation which is eternal hence he cannot dwell in any particular “now” as he wishes.
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yes He can, look at it this way. You have a wooden board in front of you and you can examine each and any part of this board and have access to all of the board any time you want to. This is how God is in relationship to his creation and time, it is all “sitting before Him” from the “Big Bang” to the dying of the last star and He has all of eternity to dwell on any part of His creation that he wishes.
 
DCNBILL said:
yes He can, look at it this way. You have a wooden board in front of you and you can examine each and any part of this board and have access to all of the board any time you want to. This is how God is in relationship to his creation and time, it is all “sitting before Him” from the “Big Bang” to the dying of the last star and He has all of eternity to dwell on any part of His creation that he wishes.
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Your example clearly brings subjectivity over time.
 
Bahman said:
Timeless God knows all states of creation. Lets consider each state as “s”, which defines creation as a set, lets call it “S”, where “S” contains all states. “S” is basically God’s knowledge of creation. So far everything is nice. The knowledge of now however needs the existence one stamp on one “s” showing that that specific “s” represent now. The now however moves as time passes. This means that position of stamp is subjected to change hence timeless God cannot know the current time. We only experience very now which means God needs to sustains now differently from past and future since “S” is actual in God perspective. This means that God needs to have a knowledge now which is impossible as it was discussed hence God cannot sustain creation.
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Do ‘we’ really understand the nature of ‘now’? There are a infinite number of ‘nows’ in a second, there are also an infinite number of ‘nows’ in a minute, there are also an infinite number of ‘nows’ in any given ‘time frame’ - so why is it they all seem different in length - indeed, how is it possible for us within ‘time’ to traverse any infinite number of ‘nows’ of which those time frames are made up?

I believe I may have the answer, but what do you think?
 
Mount_Carmel said:
Do ‘we’ really understand the nature of ‘now’?
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That depends on whether we know the nature of time.
Mount_Carmel said:
There are a infinite number of ‘nows’ in a second, there are also an infinite number of ‘nows’ in a minute, there are also an infinite number of ‘nows’ in any given ‘time frame’ - so why is it they all seem different in length - indeed, how is it possible for us within ‘time’ to traverse any infinite number of ‘nows’ of which those time frames are made up?
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That is a good point. We experience motion or time instead of different states otherwise we couldn’t possibly experience all states within a time interval separately as you correctly mentioned.
Mount_Carmel said:
I believe I may have the answer, but what do you think?
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What do you think?
 
Bahman said:
Your example clearly brings subjectivity over time.
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Expand your mind man, one must detach themselves from the mundane and reach out to the Divine perspective in such matters. Otherwise one is just chasing their own tail, so to speak.
 
DCNBILL said:
Expand your mind man, one must detach themselves from the mundane and reach out to the Divine perspective in such matters. Otherwise one is just chasing their own tail, so to speak.
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I am open to any concept. Timeless God can perform one act since the second act involves temporarily.
 
Bahman said:
Timeless God can perform one act since the second act involves temporarily.
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Such is again…thinking of God as if God were a creature in time.

You will continue to say this statement and other like things until you cease this line of thinking…

Your not thinking of God as God. Your thinking of God as if God were a continent limited creature…

You need to cease that line of thinking.

Otherwise your not really seeking to understand and will not approach understanding.
If someone wishes to learn to drive a car one has to accept that his bicycle is not a car and start looking into cars. If he keeps trying to think of his car as if it was a bicycle he is going to drive himself crazy trying to find the peddles.

If that person comes to one and insists - “but show me how I make the peddles go round and round…”

One has to get them to see that it is not like a bicycle.

If they keep coming back to “but the peddles do not go round and round” …

One has to tell them - no it is not a bicycle it is a car. You are thinking as if it were a bicycle.

If they then keep saying:

“how do I make the peddles go round and round?”

“the car cannot possibly move because the peddles do not go round and round”

One cannot show them that how they go round and round - for they do not.

One has to repeat - “your thinking as if it is a bicycle -you need to cease that line of thinking”…“the peddles do not go round and round”…

and that

“the car cannot possibly move because the peddles do not go round and round”

For until they see that they are approaching a car as if it was a bicycle - they will not quite understand how their approach is off and why they have not been able to understand this aspect of a car.
 
Bookcat said:
Such is again…thinking of God as if God were a creature in time.

You will continue to say this statement and other like things until you cease this line of thinking…

Your not thinking of God as God. Your thinking of God as if God were a continent limited creature…

You need to cease that line of thinking.

Otherwise your not really seeking to understand and will not approach understanding.
If someone wishes to learn to drive a car one has to accept that his bicycle is not a car and start looking into cars. If he keeps trying to think of his car as if it was a bicycle he is going to drive himself crazy trying to find the peddles.

If that person comes to one and insists - “but show me how I make the peddles go round and round…”

One has to get them to see that it is not like a bicycle.

If they keep coming back to “but the peddles do not go round and round” …

One has to tell them - no it is not a bicycle it is a car. You are thinking as if it were a bicycle.

If they then keep saying:

“how do I make the peddles go round and round?”

“the car cannot possibly move because the peddles do not go round and round”

One cannot show them that how they go round and round - for they do not.

One has to repeat - “your thinking as if it is a bicycle -you need to cease that line of thinking”…“the peddles do not go round and round”…

and that

“the car cannot possibly move because the peddles do not go round and round”

For until they see that they are approaching a car as if it was a bicycle - they will not quite understand how their approach is off and why they have not been able to understand this aspect of a car.
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God can only perform one eternal act because he is in state of timeless.
 
Bahman said:
God can only perform one eternal act because he is in state of timeless.
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Meaning: “the peddles of the car do not go round and round like the peddles of my bicycle so the car will not move - it cannot move”
 
You keep starting with false premises and ending up with false conclusions.
 
Bahman said:
Do you believe that God is timeless?
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Timeless? No I would not use that term.

God is outside of time.

All of time and space - all of creation is “God’s”

God is God of all that is. All of time included.

So not I would not use the phrase “God is time- less”.

All of time is created and sustained etc by God.

All that is - including time - is created by God.

Tis contingent upon God. Tis “given”.

Without God it would not be. There would be no be.
 
Bookcat said:
Timeless? No I would not use that term.

God is outside of time.

All of time and space - all of creation is “God’s”

God is God of all that is. All of time included.

So not I would not use the phrase “God is time- less”.

All of time is created and sustained etc by God.

All that is - including time - is created by God.

Tis contingent upon God. Tis “given”.

Without God it would not be. There would be no be.
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God is either timeless or time-bound. There is no another alternative. Timeless is equal to outside of time.
 
Catechism (600):

“To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy”
 
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