To a Roman Catholic are Protestants good Christians?

[Caesar]

I have no "personal interpretations"of the Bible. As Christians we are told not to have private or as you call them “personal interpretations”. The Bible is not a product of the Catholic church as you have stated. The Bible stands alone, and is a product of God, and was penned by those whom He spoke through.

I must disagree with you. The Bible is a product of God, but given to us through His Church, along with the Apostolic Tradition.

There are over 33,000 proestant sects that claim they interpret the Bible through the Holy Spirit. That few of them agree with each other should say something.

 

[rr1213]

I must disagree with you. The Bible is a product of God, but given to us through His Church, along with the Apostolic Tradition.

There are over 33,000 proestant sects that claim they interpret the Bible through the Holy Spirit. That few of them agree with each other should say something.

The 33,000 figure is overblown in my opinion although, please, let’s not get into that here. On your bigger point, I think that the multitude of divisions among Protestants may be your best argument as to whether Protestantism reflects the will of God. As you noted, “[t]hat few of them agree with each other should say something.”

 

[rr1213]

The 33,000 figure is overblown in my opinion although, please, let’s not get into that here. On your bigger point, I think that the multitude of divisions among Protestants may be your best argument as to whether Protestantism reflects the will of God. As you noted, “[t]hat few of them agree with each other should say something.”

 

[I_Leatherman]

… The Bible is not a product of the Catholic church as you have stated. The Bible stands alone, and is a product of God, and was penned by those whom He spoke through.

33A.D.
Christ says: I Will Build My Church.

And It Was So…

An account of Christs life was requested by one member at least of that Church.
It was duly and obediently written with an addendum by the author that he was writing this account [which later became part of Sacred Scripture] for the sake of those who wished to learn more.

The Apostle writes that all the world would not hold the books which could be written.

Apostle appeals to the Church to keep the Doctrines they were taught.
[This later became part of Sacred Scripture]

The Apostles write numerous letters, these are internal Church letters.
[These letters are later judged by the Church to become part of Sacred Scriptures]

The letters the Apostles write within the Church often appeal, asking the Faithful to persevere in the Faith they were taught by spoken word from the Apostles and to beware the heretics who make shipwreck of the Faith.
[This later will be judged by that Church to becomes part of Sacred Scripture]

90A.D. or so…
All the Apostles are dead.

This very same Church continued to live and grow over the following 300 years without a Bible.

This was Christs Church.

A Church without a Bible.

Christ Authored a Church, not a book.

There was by the 4th century a large amount of internal Church letters [Epistles] in existance which were attributed to Apostles, and many more than our present four eyewitness accounts [Gospels], many of these were fraudulent in total, in part, or were contradictory and the source of much confusion among the Faithful of the Church.

In 382 A.D. Pope Damasus I assembled together the Bishops of the world in a council.
And there in that council, it would be decided, that the Bible, as we Catholics have it now, is the Word of God.
It was decided at that Council that the Gospels of Simon, Nicodemus, Mary, the Infancy of Jesus, and Barnabas, and all other epistles were false, or not authentic.
Pope Damasus I assembled the first list of books of the Bible at the Council of Rome. He commissioned Saint Jerome to translate the original Greek and Hebrew texts into Latin. This translation became known as the Latin Vulgate Bible and was declared by the Church to be the only authentic and official Bible.

That is The Bible.
The Authority of the Catholic Church selected writings in 382A.D. which It considered to be inspired and compiled them into a book.
O.K.

 

[Caesar]

The 33,000 figure is overblown in my opinion although, please, let’s not get into that here. On your bigger point, I think that the multitude of divisions among Protestants may be your best argument as to whether Protestantism reflects the will of God. As you noted, “[t]hat few of them agree with each other should say something.”

I can find some stats for you.

I’m not just talking about the big ones- the Lutherans, the Anglicans, the Methodists, ect ect. This includes all those little protestant sects and congregations that break apart everytime one of their members interprets an obscure passage a differant way and goes off to found his own church. Actualy, if you include these, the number is probably higher then 33.

My point here is that there is a huge number of differant sects and congregations that claim their interpretation of the Bible comes from the Holy Spirit alone- and it’s rare to find two among them that are identical (which is interesting in itself since most of them will only go near the KJV, so they are all working off the same page)

 

[TNT]

Let’s us propose that the Church stated infallibly that:
“OUTSIDE THE CHURCH THERE IS SALVATION.”
What would be the result?
Well, “who needs the Church?” Answer: Nobody.
But Christ built a church as a safe vessel for all.
So, the Church wisely says:
“OUTSIDE THE CHURCH THERE IS NO SALVATION.”
That was the intent of its Founder…a safe vessel of Truth.
John 18
37 Pilate therefore said to him: Art thou a king then? Jesus answered: Thou sayest that I am a king. For this was I born, and for this came I into the world; that I should give testimony to the truth . Every one that is of the truth, heareth my voice.​

An analogy:
Let us say that:
“Anyone can cross the English Channel outside of a safe vessel.”
For people like:
Gertrude Ederle
Matthew Webb
Xie Yanhong
George Brunstad
Jenny James
Forrest Nelson
David Walliams
That is true.
However they are exceptions so rare as to make the above statement effectively a death sentence to the rest of mankind.
So, it is true to state:
“NO ONE can cross the English Channel outside of a safe vessel.”
In the strict sense, NEITHER of the statements is TRUE.
However, if one has any common sense, he must choose FOR HIMSELF, the last statement.

In summary, we were given a safe vessel of Truth for our own attainment of our destination.
Those who succeed without it are so rare as to really prove the safe REALITY of:
“OUTSIDE THE CHURCH THERE IS NO SALVATION.”

Just as:
“Anyone can cross the English Channel outside of a safe vessel.”

Would kill nearly everyone who exercised this proposal. And, all of us agree that doing so is irrational at least.

Therefore, the safe rational truth is:
“OUTSIDE THE CHURCH THERE IS NO SALVATION.”

Now step into the Vessel of Truth, the Church, and accept the safe way to Eternal Happiness…TODAY.
Quit trying to convince everyone that:
“Anyone can cross the English Channel outside of a safe vessel.”
Or likewise:
“OUTSIDE THE CHURCH THERE IS SALVATION.”

 

[rr1213]

Let’s us propose that the Church stated infallibly that:
“OUTSIDE THE CHURCH THERE IS SALVATION.”
What would be the result?
Well, “who needs the Church?” Answer: Nobody.
But Christ built a church as a safe vessel for all.
So, the Church wisely says:
“OUTSIDE THE CHURCH THERE IS NO SALVATION.”
That was the intent of its Founder…a safe vessel of Truth.
John 18
37 Pilate therefore said to him: Art thou a king then? Jesus answered: Thou sayest that I am a king. For this was I born, and for this came I into the world; that I should give testimony to the truth . Every one that is of the truth, heareth my voice.​

An analogy:
Let us say that:
“Anyone can cross the English Channel outside of a safe vessel.”
For people like:
Gertrude Ederle
Matthew Webb
Xie Yanhong
George Brunstad
Jenny James
Forrest Nelson
David Walliams
That is true.
However they are exceptions so rare as to make the above statement effectively a death sentence to the rest of mankind.
So, it is true to state:
“NO ONE can cross the English Channel outside of a safe vessel.”
In the strict sense, NEITHER of the statements is TRUE.
However, if one has any common sense, he must choose FOR HIMSELF, the last statement.

In summary, we were given a safe vessel of Truth for our own attainment of our destination.
Those who succeed without it are so rare as to really prove the safe REALITY of:
“OUTSIDE THE CHURCH THERE IS NO SALVATION.”

Just as:
“Anyone can cross the English Channel outside of a safe vessel.”

Would kill nearly everyone who exercised this proposal. And, all of us agree that doing so is irrational at least.

Therefore, the safe rational truth is:
“OUTSIDE THE CHURCH THERE IS NO SALVATION.”

Now step into the Vessel of Truth, the Church, and accept the safe way to Eternal Happiness…TODAY.
Quit trying to convince everyone that:
“Anyone can cross the English Channel outside of a safe vessel.”
Or likewise:
“OUTSIDE THE CHURCH THERE IS SALVATION.”

But I can safely cross the English Channel in the Chunnel. Maybe the Chunnel is the analogy to Protestantism?

 

[mikew262]

My answer: yes, certainly Protestants can be good Christians. I’m proud to be a brother in Christ to some strong Christians I know who are Protestants.

Catholics, however, have more tools available to help them in their spiritual lives (all seven sacraments, the guidance of Church authority, the examples of canonized saints, etc). That isn’t meant as a boast — if anything, that means we have less excuse for our failings.

Thats a good, simple explanation. I agree.

 

[mikew262]

I believe what the Church tells me to believe. You believe whatever suits you.

Huh? I quoted the Church’s Catechism.

 

[TNT]

But I can safely cross the English Channel in the Chunnel. Maybe the Chunnel is the analogy to Protestantism?

You are so silly…the Chunnel contains a safe vessel(s)…call them what you will…cars, boats Planes, Trains.
You ASSUMED a vessel = only a boat.
But I used vessel for a reason…as in container.
I will give you this:
Protestantism is a leaky boat.
Protestantism is a car with flat tires.
Protestantism is a plane without a pilot.
Protestantism is swimming with the sharks.
Protestantism is hitchiking with strangers.

Now, are you getting in the safe vessel with us or not?!

 

[rr1213]

You are so silly…the Chunnel contains a safe vessel(s)…call them what you will…cars, boats Planes, Trains.
You ASSUMED a vessel = only a boat.
But I used vessel for a reason…as in container.
I will give you this:
Protestantism is a leaky boat.
Protestantism is a car with flat tires.
Protestantism is a plane without a pilot.
Protestantism is swimming with the sharks.

Now, are you getting in the safe vessel with us or not?!

So what’s Orthodoxy? A tricycle with only two good wheels?

 

[TNT]

So what’s Orthodoxy? A tricycle with only two good wheels?

No, it’s a Single STEP in the right direction.
You would have but ONE foot in the safe vessel.

Now, quit asking questions & start answering.

 

[Mickey]

So what’s Orthodoxy? A tricycle with only two good wheels?

With adherence to Sacred Scripture and Sacred Traditon, Apostolic succession and valid sacraments (the Catholic Church believes this)…I would say Orthodoxy is a Humvee!

 

[mark_a]

Most of the good Christians I know are Protestants.

 

[MrS]

Most of the good Christians I know are Protestants.

Hey Mark… if you are in Bob Jones country… do you also run into a LOT of anti-Catholics (who are probably not anti-Christian )…

 

[TNT]

With adherence to Sacred Scripture and Sacred Traditon, Apostolic succession and valid sacraments (the Catholic Church believes this)…I would say Orthodoxy is a Humvee!

IMHO
Do mostly to its undeveloped adherence to antiquity & denial of most of the Ecumenical counsels, and its subservience to national pride, I would say it’s more a Model-T with Henry Ford as its Patron Saint.

I like the Model-T but don’t ask me to drive it on a life’s journey.

 

[Mickey]

IMHO
Do mostly to its undeveloped adherence to antiquity & denial of most of the Ecumenical counsels, and its subservience to national pride, I would say it’s more a Model-T with Henry Ford as its Patron Saint.

I like the Model-T but don’t ask me to drive it on a life’s journey.

Good one.
However, I must disagree. A great argument can be made that the faith was complete up to and including the 7th Ecumenical council and that is as far as the Orthodox Church recognizes. The Church was one and the Holy Fathers had spoken. Nothing else was needed. The EO Church continues to take this stance whereas the Catholic Church has gone on to hold Ecumenical councils with only half of the original Church–and they have “developed” some things which the EO do not agree with. So one might say that it is the Catholic Church with the Model-T.

Don’t get angry at me–I am only providing another perspective from our other half. Schism is a drag.

 

[MilesXpisti]

Good one.
However, I must disagree. A great argument can be made that the faith was complete up to and including the 7th Ecumenical council and that is as far as the Orthodox Church recognizes. The Church was one and the Holy Fathers had spoken. Nothing else was needed. The EO Church continues to take this stance whereas the Catholic Church has gone on to hold Ecumenical councils with only half of the original Church–and they have “developed” some things which the EO do not agree with. So one might say that it is the Catholic Church with the Model-T.

Don’t get angry at me–I am only providing another perspective from our other half. Schism is a drag.

So very true, Mickey. Schism is a drag. But we must ask ourselves who has the right to defer from the universal pastorship of the Roman Pontiff and remain completely of the faith. The only answer compatible with the perennial faith is that none are and the fault of schism lay solely with the East.

 

[TNT]

Ah,
Let us not drag anything…schism, or the EO into this thread.
Agreed?
Because:
**To a Roman Catholic are Protestants good
Christians?

Is the subject.

RCC 1, EO 1.
Tied, game over.

**

 

[Mickey]

RCC 1, EO 1.
Tied, game over.

:clapping: