Top 10 reasons women should dress modestly

[Edward_H]

**We must respect ourselves and love ourselves before we are capable of loving others. **

No this is a mistake. Any ‘respect’ we have should instead be seen only as a dignity that comes with the fact that God loves us first. We should have no respect for ourselves except that which comes from this dignity.

Yours is the great deceit…it actually started back in the “enlightenment”…the “I think there for I am”. This is a subjective view of the world and of truth. When you accept such falsehoods (whether it’s the subjective basis for truth with “cogito ergo sum”, or whether it’s the subjective basis for our ‘respect’) you set yourself up for many other problems in the moral life.

We are children of God…but we have no reason for respect or dignity outside of this.

Without God, we cannot love. There is no love without God. There is no reason for respect outside of our divine childhood.

 

[gavanhe]

A women should dress modestly* out of respect for HERSELF, not for the sake of trying to convert a pervert into a good person. It doesn’t work out that way and it doesn’t change that person’s HEART.

*(though your standards of modesty of dress are quite different from that of our culture’s, unless I’m mistaken)

This being a catholic forum, I would have thought that dressing modestly and for the circumstance has more to do with respect for others, in particular Our Lord than respect for oneself.
We only have to observe Sunday mass attendances to appreciate the lack of respect - and in more than clothes - shown Our Lord by many of either gender.
Gerry

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I wonder about those bullies. Where were their parents in all these? When young, dealing with your own insecurities, trying to find yourself and then to have to deal with bullies? It must have been so difficult for you but you seem to have come out of it fine, a strong person.

I could hardly rely on anyone (my own parents included). In fact, I’m not even that strong. I just learned one really important lesson through all that.

People like Ed and Art here like to preach about love and charity towards ones neighbors. However, these people don’t seem to ever realize that what I say here is in fact done out of just that. I do it out of the love and charity I have towards who have suffered and continue to suffer as I have. I do it for the people who have been persecuted because of what they look like. I do it for those who are irked by those who concern themselves more with their clothes than who they are as a person.

I also like to add that I extend love and charity to the other end. There’s only one difference.

Justice is involved.

And you know that they say about justice, it deals a very heavy hand.

I’m almost sure she will drown in THAT swimsuit.

I did not say that it was a swimsuit. However, since you’re insistent on thinking that changing the cultural contexts of where to put the saints somehow passes for an argument for your shallowness, I figured I’d put an image of Joan of Arc dressed in battle armor as befitting a fantasy realm of magic, dragons, and grand adventures.

As you can see, she fits right in. So again, what was the point in your ridiculous scenarios?

No this is a mistake. Any ‘respect’ we have should instead be seen only as a dignity that comes with the fact that God loves us first.

Actually, respect for the self ties with what the CCC describes as the dignity of persons. We are created in the image and likeness of God, therefore we must learn to respect and love ourselves for that very reason. Thus, it is easy to conclude that being able to see the value of yourself (being made in that great image and likeness) will allow you to realize that others deserve that same treatment (because they too are created in God’s image and likeness).

 

[cviolette]

No. The Catholic basis for modesty is love, not “respect for HERSELF”. A woman should dress modestly out of love for God and His children, period. The moral basis for all our acts is love. We pursue truth and seek to do the good, period.

Outside of the love of God, we are nothingness itself.

Any other motivation is suspect.

I forget where I heard it but to have JOY (Jesus, Others, Yourself) in your life you put Jesus first then Others then Yourself). I liked it when I heard it and try to live that way. Not always successful. In fact there are times when I am rarely successful but I keep trying.

 

[Edward_H]

Actually, respect for the self ties with what the CCC describes as the dignity of persons. We are created in the image and likeness of God, therefore we must learn to respect and love ourselves for that very reason.

Like I said…outside of God, we have no dignity. The reason we have any dignity is because of God.

And when we use words like “love”…we need to test each instance of such use of this word by the measure: > pursuing and working toward the eternal good of ourselves and others.

If we love…it means we are pursuing something that is eternally serious and worthy…not some trite definition of love or dignity.

So when we dress, are we doing things for the eternal benefit of one another? Or, are we pursuing some lesser thing.

Were we to see the supernatural implications for some of our choices and opinions we’d see a far different world.

 

[cviolette]

I could hardly rely on anyone (my own parents included). In fact, I’m not even that strong. I just learned one really important lesson through all that.

People like Ed and Art here like to preach about love and charity towards ones neighbors. However, these people don’t seem to ever realize that what I say here is in fact done out of just that. I do it out of the love and charity I have towards who have suffered and continue to suffer as I have. I do it for the people who have been persecuted because of what they look like. I do it for those who are irked by those who concern themselves more with their clothes than who they are as a person.

I did not say that it was a swimsuit. However, since you’re insistent on thinking that changing the cultural contexts of where to put the saints somehow passes for an argument for your shallowness, I figured I’d put an image of Joan of Arc dressed in battle armor as befitting a fantasy realm of magic, dragons, and grand adventures.

As you can see, she fits right in. So again, what was the point in your ridiculous scenarios?

Actually, respect for the self ties with what the CCC describes as the dignity of persons. We are created in the image and likeness of God, therefore we must learn to respect and love ourselves for that very reason. Thus, it is easy to conclude that being able to see the value of yourself (being made in that great image and likeness) will allow you to realize that others deserve that same treatment (because they too are created in God’s image and likeness).

I understand why you are defending someone’s right to dress the way they want. You went through a rough time and don’t feel people should be judged by their appearances.

Trust me, I understand parents that don’t protect children. I had an abusive awful childhood which lead to a drug and alcohol addiction and many sexual issues. I am a pretty messed up adult but with God’s help I am healing. You abuse was from bullying men, mine has been from controlling men.

Your appearance and actions are not uncharitable. They do not lead to temptation or sin. That is the big difference. There are good men struggle with impurity issues and constantly seeing woman dressed immodestly leads them to sin. I have a Catholic friend that is really struggling. I am careful to dress more modestly around him, watch what I talk about and do not even hug him. We are both miserable in our marriages. One of us has to set up boundaries and I know that he does not have the strength so I am the strong one.

 

[Edward_H]

I forget where I heard it but to have JOY (Jesus, Others, Yourself) in your life you put Jesus first then Others then Yourself). I liked it when I heard it and try to live that way. Not always successful. In fact there are times when I am rarely successful but I keep trying.

Wonderfully useful acronym. Thank you for giving us that.

Yes…for sure…we struggle…we fail…we begin again, with the sure smile of a child of God. And joy is given to us.

What was that rap song the Friars did…F A M I L Y

Forget
About
Me
I
Love
You

new.music.yahoo.com/fr-stan-fortuna/tracks/

Family remix.

 

[Edward_H]

I have a Catholic friend that is really struggling. I am careful to dress more modestly around him, watch what I talk about and do not even hug him. We are both miserable in our marriages. One of us has to set up boundaries and I know that he does not have the strength so I am the strong one.

Wow. You’ve said so well and movingly what I have been struggling to say.

Your act of love is heroic and selfless. And you’ve lost no dignity or freedom. You’re using your freedom as an act of love. Generosity itself.

GOD BLESS YOU!

 

[Edward_H]

I received a practical talk for Catholic men on modesty and purity and marital chastity, and the presenter reminded us that we need to keep custody of our:

eyes: where and how we look
imagination and memory: what we turn over in our minds, and
heart: Not exposing our heart to another woman, who is not our wife.

When we fail to do all of these things, we can lose the battle for marital chastity.

Wonderful talk and reminder.

The ‘heart’ piece is probably one of the most insidious. Example given was the following.

Say you’re in a 4 person carpool for work…2 men, 2 women; or any other mix. Over time one or both of the other men change jobs, move out of the area, and you’re left with a 2 person carpool. Yourself and a woman.

The heart problem comes in when you imagine over the months of sharing a 40 minute commute…the nature of the conversation will undoubtedly turn to family matters, spousal matters…and if you don’t “keep the keys to your heart”, you very well may end up in the near temptation to sin…even if it is with your imagination.

**Wonderful point: hold on to the keys to your heart. **

 

[Debora123]

Really Edward?

People don’t need to have respect for themselves? I can’t say I’ve ever heard that before.

I guess you can tell your daughter to dress modestly to respect the pervert that would otherwise treat her like trash, in the hopes of somehow reversing the impurities in his heart. (or something?)

When I have a daughter I’ll tell her to dress modestly to respect herself, respect her body, and respect her dignity… first and foremost.

 

[Debora123]

No this is a mistake. Any ‘respect’ we have should instead be seen only as a dignity that comes with the fact that God loves us first. We should have no respect for ourselves except that which comes from this dignity.

I never said it shouldn’t come from the fact that God loves us. I only said we need to respect ourselves. Do you disagree with this?

Yours is the great deceit…it actually started back in the “enlightenment”…the “I think there for I am”. This is a subjective view of the world and of truth. When you accept such falsehoods (whether it’s the subjective basis for truth with “cogito ergo sum”, or whether it’s the subjective basis for our ‘respect’) you set yourself up for many other problems in the moral life.

What was it I said exactly that was “deceitful” or “falsehood?” Please let me know, I feel like you’re talking to your own imagination of what I said. I said we must respect ourselves. No?

I guess I must have many problems in my moral life then, because I believe I should respect myself.

We are children of God…but we have no reason for respect or dignity outside of this.

Without God, we cannot love. There is no love without God. There is no reason for respect outside of our divine childhood.

Again, you are arguing with a ghost here, or something. I never said anything about not being God’s children.

I honestly don’t see where you came up with this whole post from my statement that we must respect ourselves before we can respect/love other people.

 

[Debora123]

This being a catholic forum, I would have thought that dressing modestly and for the circumstance has more to do with respect for others, in particular Our Lord than respect for oneself.
We only have to observe Sunday mass attendances to appreciate the lack of respect - and in more than clothes - shown Our Lord by many of either gender.
Gerry

We respect others by having respect for ourselves first.

 

[Debora123]

Actually, respect for the self ties with what the CCC describes as the dignity of persons. We are created in the image and likeness of God, therefore we must learn to respect and love ourselves for that very reason. Thus, it is easy to conclude that being able to see the value of yourself (being made in that great image and likeness) will allow you to realize that others deserve that same treatment (because they too are created in God’s image and likeness).

My point exactly.

 

[Debora123]

I forget where I heard it but to have JOY (Jesus, Others, Yourself) in your life you put Jesus first then Others then Yourself). I liked it when I heard it and try to live that way. Not always successful. In fact there are times when I am rarely successful but I keep trying.

This applies when doing favors to others etc etc… it does not apply exactly this way when it comes to respect.

We must see the value in ourselves and love and respect ourselves so that we can adequately “give” ourselves up for the service of others.

 

[Edward_H]

We respect others by having respect for ourselves first.

Debora,

Your formation is deficient. We respect others because they are children of God. You espouse opinions that are deformed understandings of Catholic doctrine.

If we begin our focus on ourselves - vs God or others, we tend to stay there, and we tend to build reality around us.

 

[Edward_H]

Really Edward?

People don’t need to have respect for themselves? I can’t say I’ve ever heard that before.

I guess you can tell your daughter to dress modestly to respect the pervert that would otherwise treat her like trash, in the hopes of somehow reversing the impurities in his heart. (or something?)

When I have a daughter I’ll tell her to dress modestly to respect herself, respect her body, and respect her dignity… first and foremost.

You misunderstand the starting point. The starting point is God…we can’t understand ourselves - we can’t truly respect ourselves - without direct reference to God. Beloved John Paul II said that God reveals man to himself.

 

[Debora123]

Your appearance and actions are not uncharitable. They do not lead to temptation or sin. That is the big difference. There are good men struggle with impurity issues and constantly seeing woman dressed immodestly leads them to sin. I have a Catholic friend that is really struggling. I am careful to dress more modestly around him, watch what I talk about and do not even hug him. We are both miserable in our marriages. One of us has to set up boundaries and I know that he does not have the strength so I am the strong one.

Sounds like your friend needs some serious help - as do other men who have this much of an issue.

Telling the world to dress differently bc of ppl like this does nothing to help purify their hearts, and only masks the real problem. Only treats a few symptoms rather than cure the disease.

 

[Edward_H]

Really Edward?

People don’t need to have respect for themselves? I can’t say I’ve ever heard that before.

I guess you can tell your daughter to dress modestly to respect the pervert that would otherwise treat her like trash, in the hopes of somehow reversing the impurities in his heart. (or something?)

When I have a daughter I’ll tell her to dress modestly to respect herself, respect her body, and respect her dignity… first and foremost.

Tell her first that she is a child of God…that is where all her dignity is.

The repeated ‘pervert’ language and bikini language reveals the shallowness of your argument and understanding of this topic.

 

[cviolette]

You misunderstand the starting point. The starting point is God…we can’t understand ourselves - we can’t truly respect ourselves - without direct reference to God. Beloved John Paul II said that God reveals man to himself.

I agree with Edward. The starting point is always God. Others come after God. You are suppose to put your needs and wants last.

 

[cviolette]

Sounds like your friend needs some serious help - as do other men who have this much of an issue.

Telling the world to dress differently bc of ppl like this does nothing to help purify their hearts, and only masks the real problem. Only treats a few symptoms rather than cure the disease.

He and 99.999999% of the male population.

The thread isn’t about the world changing. The secular world is a mess. It should be about how a devout Catholic dresses.