E
Edward_H
Guest
He and 99.999999% of the male population.
The thread isn’t about the world changing. The secular world is a mess. It should be about how a devout Catholic dresses.
He and 99.999999% of the male population.
The thread isn’t about the world changing. The secular world is a mess. It should be about how a devout Catholic dresses.
You see it as respect. I see your arguments as pride. How am I showing respect for myself by wearing a bikini? That is wanting to be comfortable and look good. Nothing to do with respect.This applies when doing favors to others etc etc… it does not apply exactly this way when it comes to respect.
We must see the value in ourselves and love and respect ourselves so that we can adequately “give” ourselves up for the service of others.
Thank you I am not saint. I am still an infant in many ways when it comes to religion. My goal, like any good Catholic is to become a saint. But right now the best I can hope for is not going to hell. I have many issues that I struggle with and make mistakes daily. And am probably the last person that should be posting in a modesty thread but I am trying to change and learn and grow in my faith.Wow. You’ve said so well and movingly what I have been struggling to say.
Your act of love is heroic and selfless. And you’ve lost no dignity or freedom. You’re using your freedom as an act of love. Generosity itself.
GOD BLESS YOU!
Me too. Let’s struggle onward for God and for our spouses, children, and nearby others.Thank you I am not saint. I am still an infant in many ways when it comes to religion. My goal, like any good Catholic is to become a saint. But right now the best I can hope for is not going to hell. I have many issues that I struggle with and make mistakes daily. And am probably the last person that should be posting in a modesty thread but I am trying to change and learn and grow in my faith.
Well said. Nebulous indeed.I find this whole idea of respecting oneself prior to being able to respect others as somewhat nebulous. Is this akin to loving oneself?
I am not so sure whether any of this helps us reason as to why we should dress modestly as well as appropriately.
I do believe that our society as we live it in the West has lost some of it’s foundational structure and this manifests itself in many ways - lack of respect for all manner of people or stations in life we once used to respect - doctors, teachers, parents, clergy and many others. Losing respect for these people and professions means that in many ways we lose respect for others generally.
Surely respect for Our Lord trumps all and once we have that we learn to respect others because of Him. That respect will then translate into a sense of what is right and appropriate.
Gerry
??Debora,
Your formation is deficient. We respect others because they are children of God. You espouse opinions that are deformed understandings of Catholic doctrine.]
I did not say focus on ourselves vs God or vs others. I said we must respect ourselves fist, in order to have respect for others.If we begin our focus on ourselves - vs God or others, we tend to stay there, and we tend to build reality around us.
I think you misunderstand MY point.You misunderstand the starting point. The starting point is God…we can’t understand ourselves - we can’t truly respect ourselves - without direct reference to God. Beloved John Paul II said that God reveals man to himself.
Ok, if you are going to straw man my argument like that, then let me go back and change what I said:Tell her first that she is a child of God…that is where all her dignity is.
…and yet you fail to go back and diagnose what I said and explain exactly why my points are invalid and shallow. I think my points are very logical and completely in line with Church teaching. Instead you straw man my arguments (nit pick) at small details rather than getting to the root of the point I actually made.The repeated ‘pervert’ language and bikini language reveals the shallowness of your argument and understanding of this topic.
And I agree with that too. Which is why I keep saying he’s arguing with a ghost.I agree with Edward. The starting point is always God. Others come after God. You are suppose to put your needs and wants last.
**He and 99.999999% of the male population. **
This is false, and I’ve explained it in many of my past posts.
Like I said before, if I viewed men in the same way that some of you do, I don’t think I could ever go to a male gyno again - or just a male doctor in general, ever again.
The thread isn’t about the world changing. The secular world is a mess. It should be about how a devout Catholic dresses.
This is the problem right here. You think there is something disrespectful about wearing a bikini to the beach. (there ya go Edward, i said it again)You see it as respect. I see your arguments as pride. How am I showing respect for myself by wearing a bikini? That is wanting to be comfortable and look good. Nothing to do with respect.
Sorry, but the only people here thinking they are their own popes are people who take an article of clothing that is completely normal in our culture (pants, shorts, sleeveless shirts, tank tops, bikinis, etc) and condemning it a sin to wear them when there is absolutely no Catholic basis for it whatsoever.Well said. Nebulous indeed.
We’ve lost our foundations because we don’t know how to seek truth. We really believe everyone has their own truth. Even some Catholics here think they are their own popes, their own Church.
And since we don’t know where to point to (toward Truth) we start to circle around ourselves, looking silly. We spout all sorts of nonsense…but the truth.
In all honesty I think that what cviolette is trying to convey is that being comfortable has little to do with respect. Perhaps you misrepresent her by by saying that she claims bikinis are immodest.(posted By cviolette
You see it as respect. I see your arguments as pride. How am I showing respect for myself by wearing a bikini? That is wanting to be comfortable and look good. Nothing to do with respect.)
This is the problem right here. You think there is something disrespectful about wearing a bikini to the beach. (there ya go Edward, i said it again)
There is not! A bikini is not immodest. It is what women wear to go swimming in this country, in the 21st century. There is nothing sexual about it, unless a pervert makes it so - as pervert can make ANYTHING sexual. You are making the claim that bikinis are immodest and that wearing one is disrespectful, but you have absolutely no basis to back up this claim.
Show us one post in your 300 in here where you actually start with God vs. yourself and your dignity or your bikini. The i me mine world view is so patently thick. As I said you need to correct some disordered formation.Ok, if you are going to straw man my argument like that, then let me go back and change what I said:
Instead of telling my daughter that she must respect herself, I will tell my daughter that she must respect herself bc her dignity comes from God.
…and yet you fail to go back and diagnose what I said and explain exactly why my points are invalid and shallow. I think my points are very logical and completely in line with Church teaching. Instead you straw man my arguments (nit pick) at small details rather than getting to the root of the point I actually made.
I’ve seen you do this time and time again, and I’m sorry, but it doesn’t work.
When you failed to answer my questions a week ago regarding the bathing suit discussion and realized you were wrong, you disappeared from the post for days and never touched on the subject again… now you come back and continue to nit pick at posts rather than discussing the actual point I am trying to get across.
Your arguments are so thinly flavored with Catholicism, they actually do more harm if someone were to identify them with the Church. They are a gross caricature of the sum and substance of Church teaching.Sorry, but the only people here thinking they are their own popes are people who take an article of clothing that is completely normal in our culture (pants, shorts, sleeveless shirts, tank tops, bikinis, etc) and condemning it a sin to wear them when there is absolutely no Catholic basis for it whatsoever.
I am not my own pope, my arguments are backed up by teachings of the Church. Yours however, are not.
Respecting/loving ourselves is nebulous? The need to respect/love ourselves before we are able to love others is false?I find this whole idea of respecting oneself prior to being able to respect others as somewhat nebulous. Is this akin to loving oneself?
I am not so sure whether any of this helps us reason as to why we should dress modestly as well as appropriately.
I do believe that our society as we live it in the West has lost some of it’s foundational structure and this manifests itself in many ways - lack of respect for all manner of people or stations in life we once used to respect - doctors, teachers, parents, clergy and many others. Losing respect for these people and professions means that in many ways we lose respect for others generally.
Surely respect for Our Lord trumps all and once we have that we learn to respect others because of Him. That respect will then translate into a sense of what is right and appropriate.
Gerry
Mary Beth Bonacci, in We’re on a Mission from God (based on JPII’s Theology of the Body)
…I think a lot of Christians don’t really understand this. They think that Christian humility means that we should love God and look down on ourselves. But remember, Christ said, “love your neighbor as yourself,” not “love your neighbor instead of yourself.” We actually have a hard time really loving others until we’ve learned how to love ourselves.
Being comfort has little to do with respect?In all honesty I think that what cviolette is trying to convey is that being comfortable has little to do with respect. Perhaps you misrepresent her by by saying that she claims bikinis are immodest.
Gerry
I never made the claim that I was more important than God, as you accuse me of doing in your wild imagination.Show us one post in your 300 in here where you actually start with God vs. yourself and your dignity or your bikini. The i me mine world view is so patently thick. As I said you need to correct some disordered formation.
Good observation. I bet you’ve made straw man arguments more than real ones.I bet you’ve used the word bikini more than God.
And again you are insulting my arguments rather than actually arguing them.Your arguments are so thinly flavored with Catholicism, they actually do more harm if someone were to identify them with the Church. They are a gross caricature of the sum and substance of Church teaching.
It’s all “world” with the barest tincture of ‘Church’