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ARSpade
Guest
I’m not. It and the wall are merely a good start.
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liturgyluver
Guest
Unless I’m mistaken, in addition to the bans from specific states the order also bans the entry of any refugee awaiting resettlement in the United States - how can that possibly only affect 109 people?
And furthermore the countries that have exported the most terrorism to the world - Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Egypt, the United Arab Emirates - are not on the banned list.
Nor is Pakistan, where the Taliban and al Qaeda have bases or Tunisia the biggest supplier of fighters to Islamic State.
Religious leaders seem to be united in opposition to Trump’s actions:
edition.cnn.com/2017/01/30/politics/trump-immigration-religion/index.html
“This weekend proved to be a dark moment in U.S. history,” Cardinal Blase Cupich of Chicago, a top ally of Pope Francis, said on Sunday, expressing a sentiment widely echoed in churches, synagogues and mosques. “The world is watching as we abandon our commitments to American values.”
ucc.org/news_faith_leaders_condemn_trumps_ban_on_refugees_as_un_american_01262017
independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uk-rabbis-donald-trump-muslim-ban-letter-protest-a7556526.html
Chief Rabbi Ephraim Mirvis, who, in talking about how the charity gives people around the world hope, said:
“Not much hope from the United States of America, of all countries, where President Trump appears to have signed an executive order which seems to discriminate against individuals based totally on their religion or their nationality.
“We as Jews perhaps more than any others know exactly what it is like to be the victims of such discrimination and it is totally unacceptable.”
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Michael68
Guest
What discrimination? This is a 90 day hold. That’s it. We need to to revise the vetting policy
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lmachine
Guest
Is there a problem with the vetting process? What revisions need to be made?
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Michael68
Guest
Officials seem to think so. We can’t currently prove who a lot of these ppl are. Its a safety measure. I don’t understand all the fuss. We have a right to safety.
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lmachine
Guest
How has the current vetting process resulted in reduced safety?
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Vouthon
Guest
See:
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/corunum/documents/rc_pc_corunum_doc_25061992_refugees_en.html
**PONTIFICAL COUNCIL
FOR THE PASTORAL CARE OF MIGRANTS AND ITINERANT PEOPLE
REFUGEES: A CHALLENGE TO SOLIDARITY
PRESENTATION
1992
“A shameful wound of our time”**
From the above, some key points:
*(1) Protection of refugees is a duty and responsibility for the Christian
“Protection is not a simple concession made to the refugee: he is not an object of assistance, but rather a subject of rights and duties. Each country has the responsibility to respect the rights of refugees and assure that they are respected as much as the rights of its own citizens.”
(2) The immediate needs of the refugee transcends the interests of the State and even national security in deference to the dignity of the refugee as a human person:
“The problem of refugees must be confronted at its roots, that is, at the level of the very causes of exile. The first point of reference should not be the interests of the State, or national security but the human person, so that the need to live in community, a basic requirement of the very nature of human beings, will be safeguarded…”
(3) National interest should not be the paramount concern:
"Despite an increased awareness of interdependence among peoples and nations, some States, guided by their own ideologies and particular interests, arbitrarily determine the criteria for the application of international obligations…
However, numerous people within various nations are taking a firm position against selfish attitudes and the adoption of policies of restrictionism, and who are committed to sensitizing public opinion in favor of the protection of the rights of all and of the value of hospitality…
Such an attitude facilitates the search for common solutions and undercuts the validity of certain positions, sometimes put forward, that would limit acceptance and the granting of the right of asylum to the sole criterion of national interest…"*
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TMC
Guest
Well, they have an ambassador to the US for starters, and we have an ambassador to them, along with the customary diplomatic contacts that go along with embassies. One would expect them to be the primary source of information. Do you think the Pope just sits around and watches CNN International for his info?
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Vouthon
Guest
Oops, meant to say “papal nuncio” - my phone auto-corrected it to “junction” for several read on
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Michael68
Guest
I understand this. Really, I do. Yet in 1992 we did not have ISIS encouraging terrorists to infiltrate the refugee populations.
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lmachine
Guest
Have terrorists infiltrated the refugee populations?
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exnihilo
Guest
A single man is the source of information? Where does he get his information?
I’m sure the Holy Father has plenty of sources for information. I know he doesn’t generally or possibly at all watch CNN because he gave up television. But the sources he uses may themselves watch CNN. It would seem unlikely that members of the Vatican get all of their information from CNN, but just as unlikely they get no information from CNN. Our president watches network TV news.
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lmachine
Guest
Wherever the Pope gets his news I’m sure he understood that Trump’s order turned away refugees in need.
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TMC
Guest
Do you know anything about diplomatic relations and structures? The interactions between the US and the Vatican are not single man to single man. Do you suppose the Pope is so naïve or simple as to base his decisions on a passing news report?
Why is it that whenever someone disagrees with the Pope they claim the Pope is ignorant? We should have a bit more faith in the Church than that.
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exnihilo
Guest
Even if we didn’t have Trumps order the US and other countries, including the Vatican, turn away refugees in need. That is sort of like saying if I don’t give money to every beggar I’m turning away the hungry.
I’ve already said I don’t know. I’ve asked for people to enlighten me. All I get is more people telling me I’m wrong without any specifics. I’m not claiming the Pope is ignorant.
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Michael68
Guest
We have already accepted thousands and are preparing to accept more. Im not sure why people are so upset at a temporary halt.
po18guy
Well-known member
Left-wing politics and media once again influencing the Church. What about justice for Americans who prefer to have immigrants vetted for their acceptability? For disease? For criminal history back home? For any employment history at all? I think that even segments of the left may be aware that no foreigner has a right to enter the US - or am I missing something here?So linking to an article from a trustworthy Catholic News source about a statement made by a high-ranking Vatican official who is one of Pope Francis’ closest aides is a “disgraceful” weaponization of the Holy Father?
This isn’t fake news you know.
My wife’s family emigrated from El Salvador in the mid-1970s. Obviously a very dangerous time. Despite that, they had to apply and pay and wait and wait. Employment/school history. Medical records and testing. She is livid over this current mass of uncontrolled immigration.
She is sick and tired of seeing, in her words, the US turned into a third-world nation. She voted to stop that.
We live in an absolutely hysterical age. You would think that, at the Vatican, they would remember:
“Pray, hope and don’t worry” - Saint Padre Pio
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JPUSC
Guest
"I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute, where no Catholic prelate would tell the president (should he be Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote; where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference; and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the president who might appoint him or the people who might elect him.
I believe in an America that is officially neither Catholic, Protestant nor Jewish; where no public official either requests or accepts instructions on public policy from the Pope, the National Council of Churches or any other ecclesiastical source; where no religious body seeks to impose its will directly or indirectly upon the general populace or the public acts of its officials; and where religious liberty is so indivisible that an act against one church is treated as an act against all."
John F. Kennedy
npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16920600
I believe in an America that is officially neither Catholic, Protestant nor Jewish; where no public official either requests or accepts instructions on public policy from the Pope, the National Council of Churches or any other ecclesiastical source; where no religious body seeks to impose its will directly or indirectly upon the general populace or the public acts of its officials; and where religious liberty is so indivisible that an act against one church is treated as an act against all."
John F. Kennedy
npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=16920600
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lmachine
Guest
They are vetted for those things.
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Tim_D
Guest
I wonder if the pope believes in the wall which encircles Vatican City? And how many refugees is Vatican City up to now?
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