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Podo2004
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exactly, thank you ByzCath.
Podo The Hobbit
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Podo The Hobbit
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Podo2004
Guest
Name one thing that the congregation does in the trad. latin mass that makes then not look like a “spectator”
And those people just don’t want to participate, we need to make then feel welcome, but unfortunely we don’t. Not all people are spectators! My whole family does something at mass every week!
Podo The Hobbit
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Iohannes
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True participation in Mass is being in union with the eternal Sacrifice of Calvary.
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moira
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Podo, I will not cower and tell you to join another religion. Please don’t. You know you’re in the right place. You know what? People should feel good and renewed after Mass.I agree. I feel good after attending either the NO Mass or the Tridentine Mass. But the TLM has what I really need. And what speaks best to my heart.at least protestants are happy and actually express their faith, while we catholics just cower and tell people to join other religions that is why people are turning away from catholicism.Because people are supposed to feel good after mass(not the old mass) I feel good after the new mass, why don’t you guys? You just want to keep the old mass, what about today’s mass? It seems less important to you guys. Why don’t you try encouraging people to go to today’s mass. That’s what i just don’t get…
Podo The hobbit
Anyway, I’m really impressed that you are here and trying to hold your own. Just stay with the Catholic Church and follow Rome and no matter which Mass you attend, you’ll be fine. God bless.
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JCB
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Excellent point… Sorry Podo
Keep praying
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Podo2004
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Just because i am 13 you think you are presenting with difficult things that are too advanced for me?
common… i may be 13 but i understand what you guys are saying… how many 13 year olds are actually interested in this stuff (other than me and Sarah (khkhk))? I’m just presenting my opinion… this site doesn’t say anything about 13 years not allowed to participate in treads like this…unless i missed it Podo The Hobbit
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deogratias
Guest
No one said that you could not participate. I am glad you are interested and that you want to learn more about your faith.
If I may be totally candid - it is not that I think they are too “difficult” but that I think you and anyone in your age group, may not be as open to the fullness of what people have presented and that you are “closed” to other ideas. I was at 13 and so were my children in their teen age years and so were my grandchildren.
But it is not unusual or unnatural that at this time in your life you are finding out more about who you are and what you believe and may not be as open to what others think and believe until you are older.
Do you think this is a possibility?
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Podo2004
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ok ok ok, let me take away all those rude, immature and insulting posts(let me start afresh). The latin mas is valid only if it is approved by a bishop, but should not be the norm because of the NO.Mass which is the standard mass today. We should attend the NO. Mass as often as possible and to quote myself(lol) we should follow what the 2nd vatican council said and attend the NO. Mass. Therefore i encourage you to go to the Novus Ordo Mass.
This tread is entitled “Tradional Mass Not In Union with Diocese” Not approved eh? I have a question( implementing my newly aquired knowledge) that if the latin mass is not approved , it’s INVALID right?
So that mass would be invalid because the diocese didn’t approve it, right?
Another thing, don’t start biting my head off if you reply to this ok?
Podo The Hobbit
This tread is entitled “Tradional Mass Not In Union with Diocese” Not approved eh? I have a question( implementing my newly aquired knowledge) that if the latin mass is not approved , it’s INVALID right?
So that mass would be invalid because the diocese didn’t approve it, right?
Another thing, don’t start biting my head off if you reply to this ok?
Podo The Hobbit
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khkhk
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I won’t bite your head off!ok ok ok, let me take away all those rude, immature and insulting posts(let me start afresh). The latin mas is valid only if it is approved by a bishop, but should not be the norm because of the NO.Mass which is the standard mass today. We should attend the NO. Mass as often as possible and to quote myself(lol) we should follow what the 2nd vatican council said and attend the NO. Mass. Therefore i encourage you to go to the Novus Ordo Mass.
This tread is entitled “Tradional Mass Not In Union with Diocese” Not approved eh? I have a question( implementing my newly aquired knowledge) that if the latin mass is not approved , it’s INVALID right?
So that mass would be invalid because the diocese didn’t approve it, right?
Another thing, don’t start biting my head off if you reply to this ok?
(I’m kinda happy) My internet service is working again!!! (sorry that’s off the subject)Well, it is not approved, but it is valid because it is basicly the same thing that we do just in a more strict form. (For instance, the Orthodox doesn’t do everything that we do, but the “Divine Liturgy” is still valid) Oh yeah, did you know that if you are not with in 50 miles of a Catholic Church, you can go to an Orthodox Liturgy, and it will count towards your Sunday obligation?
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khkhk
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Thank you Podo! Actually the only requirement is that you are 13 or older!Just because i am 13 you think you are presenting with difficult things that are too advanced for me?
Besides the other posting rules etc…I don’t think anything is too old for either of us…well maybe a few things, but nothing like this!
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Podo2004
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You are quite welcome Sarah, nothing will stand in the way of Podo The Hobbit!!!Thank you Podo! Actually the only requirement is that you are 13 or older!
For his love of serving the LORD will never failPodo the Hobbit
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deogratias
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"
The particular Mass in question that started this thread, at the church mentioned definitely is “ilicit” (i.e. without permission of the Diocese). Research I did on this particular Mass opens question if it is even Valid because there is question of some actual valid ordination of its priests.
The Indult Mass (with permission celebrated by validly ordained priests) which I mentioned above is then both Valid and Licit.
There are some other Masses, for instance celebrated by a group called the SSPX - their priests and their Masses are Valid but they are not licit.
In otherwords their priests have the power succeeded from the seat of Peter (making them valid) but they do not have permission from the Bishop to celebrate these masses so that are ilicit and we should not attend them.
So can I summarize this for you - I’ll try.
1, The normative Mass is what you call the N.O. Mass and it is licit and valid and the norm. These normative Masses may also be celebrated in Latin or part Latin and part Vernacular. Most common in our country is that they are celebrated in the Vernacular (English, Spanish etc.)
I hope this makes it a little clearer and thanks for being open to restarting this discussion
Another thing, don’t start biting my head off if you reply to this ok?
Podo The Hobbit
So far so good - however - as you probably figured out by now there were many folks who had a problem with this (just as you might if suddenly you were told - no more N.O. Mass - you must go to the Traditional Latin Mass from 40 years ago - you might obey but reluctantly, right?). Knowing this, John Paul II in his wisdom and with all the authority he has as the Pope decided that the Traditional Latin Mass could be celebrated “licitly and validly” if the local Bishop gave his permission to do so. (that would be what is called by** Indult** and why some folks call it the Indult Mass).
Oh that I could give you a yes or no simple answer but that’s close but no cigar
The particular Mass in question that started this thread, at the church mentioned definitely is “ilicit” (i.e. without permission of the Diocese). Research I did on this particular Mass opens question if it is even Valid because there is question of some actual valid ordination of its priests.
The Indult Mass (with permission celebrated by validly ordained priests) which I mentioned above is then both Valid and Licit.
There are some other Masses, for instance celebrated by a group called the SSPX - their priests and their Masses are Valid but they are not licit.
In otherwords their priests have the power succeeded from the seat of Peter (making them valid) but they do not have permission from the Bishop to celebrate these masses so that are ilicit and we should not attend them.
So can I summarize this for you - I’ll try.
1, The normative Mass is what you call the N.O. Mass and it is licit and valid and the norm. These normative Masses may also be celebrated in Latin or part Latin and part Vernacular. Most common in our country is that they are celebrated in the Vernacular (English, Spanish etc.)
- The Indult Traditional Latin Mass is both licit and valid because special persmission was granted to celebrate it and attend it. (An indult is special permission - for instance - if you receive communion in the hand - this is not really the norm for the whole Catholic Church in the world but it is allowed in some countries by Indult).
- Then there are Valid Traditional Latin Masses celebrated by priests who have the power to do so but not permission to do so - and so they are valid but ilicit.
- Then there are others whose priests have no power and no permission and these would be both Invalid and Ilicit
I hope this makes it a little clearer and thanks for being open to restarting this discussion
Another thing, don’t start biting my head off if you reply to this ok?
Podo The Hobbit
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Iohannes
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Another thing that is needed to be cleared is that a private Traditional Latin Mass is valid and licit since it is not open to the public. With private TLM, permission is not needed.
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deogratias
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Providing it is indeed “private”. There is one here that the priest has permission to say private TLM - but now he has about 60-70 people attending privately on a regular basis - that’s crossing the line.
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khkhk
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I love going to mass! I can offer up prayers to God through mass, I learn more each time I go etc… I always feel good after.at least protestants are happy and actually express their faith, while we catholics just cower and tell people to join other religions that is why people are turning away from catholicism.Because people are supposed to feel good after mass(not the old mass) I feel good after the new mass, why don’t you guys? You just want to keep the old mass, what about today’s mass? It seems less important to you guys. Why don’t you try encouraging people to go to today’s mass. That’s what i just don’t get…
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JCB
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Thank you Deogratias
Podo
I am very happy you are interested in your faith. Please don’t be discouraged to participate
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moira
Guest
First of all, I promise not to bite your head off. I wish I cared about the church at your age as much as you do. Good for you and bless you for it!This tread is entitled “Tradional Mass Not In Union with Diocese” Not approved eh? I have a question( implementing my newly aquired knowledge) that if the latin mass is not approved , it’s INVALID right?
So that mass would be invalid because the diocese didn’t approve it, right?
Another thing, don’t start biting my head off if you reply to this ok?
I started this thread because I ran across a church that’s sign said Queen on the Holy Rosary Roman Catholic Church
Traditional Tridentine Mass
and I wanted to know the difference between valid and licit. That was my question and it was answered by several well informed people.
The indult Mass we have in my area is approved by our Bishop. That is the one I go to. I didn’t mean that ALL Latin Masses were invalid. And, yes, the Mass not approved by the bishop would be invalid or at least illicit. At least I think so.
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deogratias
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That particular one is definitely ilicit and probably invalid since I can find no true succession from Peter in the ordination of its priests.
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katybird
Guest
I usually go to a pretty traditional parish that does the NO in Latin, and has all the bells and smells, etc…
But, sometimes I have to go to the parish I actually live in, and it’s all about being Lifted Up on Eagle’s Wings to receive communion in the hand from some grubby altar girl, blah, blah, blah (“blah blah blah” is latin for “yet another meandering homily on love.”)
I hate going to Mass there.
And, I am ashamed of that. Even at its least inspiring, it’s STILL THE HOLY SACRIFICE OF THE MASS and I should be moved to the depths of my soul. I think it must be pride and my own corporal weakness that makes me react this way. Like, unless they do it the way I prefer, singing hymns I know, and unless it’s all gussied up with incense and altar rails, etc… then I can’t handle it. Like a little snot who wants the crusts cut off her sandwiches or something.
I sometimes torture myself with the thought that I ought to go there every week just as penance or something.
But, sometimes I have to go to the parish I actually live in, and it’s all about being Lifted Up on Eagle’s Wings to receive communion in the hand from some grubby altar girl, blah, blah, blah (“blah blah blah” is latin for “yet another meandering homily on love.”)
I hate going to Mass there.
And, I am ashamed of that. Even at its least inspiring, it’s STILL THE HOLY SACRIFICE OF THE MASS and I should be moved to the depths of my soul. I think it must be pride and my own corporal weakness that makes me react this way. Like, unless they do it the way I prefer, singing hymns I know, and unless it’s all gussied up with incense and altar rails, etc… then I can’t handle it. Like a little snot who wants the crusts cut off her sandwiches or something.
I sometimes torture myself with the thought that I ought to go there every week just as penance or something.
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Podo2004
Guest
thanks for confirming that!(part about mass being illicit or invalid if not approved)
God Bless You!
Podo The Hobbit
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