"Trail of Blood" Baptist

[steve-b]

I thought the ‘Baptists’ got their name from John the Baptist? Then there are the anabaptists which might be related somehow.

Conclusion

etc

The same Church today, Pope Francis is over, 266th successor to St Peter.

Jesus started one Church. The Catholic Church. He gave all His promises to His Church. No one then can argue the HS inspired them to start their own church, and divide from the Catholic Church because that would contradict Jesus prayer. John 17:20-23 Douay-Rheims Bible, John Chapter 17

 

[Kei]

Thank God their nonsense remains nonsense.
Thank God He has protected us from such “false” gospels as the protestants teach.

 

[Augustinian]

Whatever. These people are dumb as a bag of rocks.

Calling people “dumb” because they have different ideas isn’t any way to make friends. A lot of religious beliefs may seem “stupid” to the uninitiated. But pointing and laughing at this belief is just as bad a form as poking fun at a devout Hindu’s statue of the elephant god or a Sikh’s turban. Doesn’t make any friends or converts.

 

[Wannano]

Grape juice isn’t wine.

That seems kind of weak…is the Host a loaf of bread?

 

[commenter]

BoomerangToo:

Whatever. These people are dumb as a bag of rocks.

Calling people “dumb” because they have different ideas isn’t any way to make friends. A lot of religious beliefs may seem “stupid” to the uninitiated. But pointing and laughing at this belief is just as bad a form as poking fun at a devout Hindu’s statue of the elephant god or a Sikh’s turban. Doesn’t make any friends or converts.

My late Baptist friend not only believed in something like the Trail of Blood, she also believed the Earth was created in 7 24 hours days, with all species, no evolution. She also regarded abortion as murder, and marriage as involving one man and one woman.

Some of my Catholic and Protestant friends have what appears to be more accurate beliefs on church history, and biology. But they also accept legal abortion and same sex marriage.

There is no doubt my Baptist friend had far greater wisdom overall than my other friends. She was definitely closer to the core of Catholicism than those other friends.

 

[Wannano]

Augustinian:

BoomerangToo:

Whatever. These people are dumb as a bag of rocks.

Calling people “dumb” because they have different ideas isn’t any way to make friends. A lot of religious beliefs may seem “stupid” to the uninitiated. But pointing and laughing at this belief is just as bad a form as poking fun at a devout Hindu’s statue of the elephant god or a Sikh’s turban. Doesn’t make any friends or converts.

My late Baptist friend not only believed in something like the Trail of Blood, she also believed the Earth was created in 7 24 hours days, with all species, no evolution. She also regarded abortion as murder, and marriage as involving one man and one woman.

Some of my Catholic and Protestant friends have what appears to be more accurate beliefs on church history, and biology. But they also accept legal abortion and same sex marriage.

There is no doubt my Baptist friend had far greater wisdom overall than my other friends. She was definitely closer to the core of Catholicism than those other friends.

Thanks for sharing this. I find it intriguing. Any chance of getting you to share what the core of Catholicism comprises?

 

[DaveBj]

That seems kind of weak…is the Host a loaf of bread?

To stretch the analogy, this is an apples-and-oranges comparison. Bread is bread, but grape juice is not wine. Think about this chronologically: the harvest and pressing of grapes was in the fall, but the Passover meal (which we celebrate as the Eucharist) was in the spring. Given that this was almost two millenia before Dr. Welch’s invention of the grape juice pasteurization process, there is no way that what was poured into the cups at the Passover meal was grape juice.

D

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

That seems kind of weak…is the Host a loaf of bread?

To stretch the analogy, this is an apples-and-oranges comparison. Bread is bread, but grape juice is not wine. Think about this chronologically: the harvest and pressing of grapes was in the fall, but the Passover meal (which we celebrate as the Eucharist) was in the spring. Given that this was almost two millenia before Dr. Welch’s invention of the grape juice pasteurization process, there is no way that what was poured into the cups at the Passover meal was grape juice.

D

And I agree with you totally. I have no arguement with that. What get’s me is when I read that using grape juice is blasphemous or very, very bad. I just wonder at the rationale for those comments.

I became friends with an alcoholic who got dry through AA. He vowed to never take a drop again. He shared with me that his Lutheran Church made no provision for an alternative for him so he could not commune.

How does the CC handle it?

 

[Wannano]

Wannano:

That seems kind of weak…is the Host a loaf of bread?

To stretch the analogy, this is an apples-and-oranges comparison. Bread is bread, but grape juice is not wine. Think about this chronologically: the harvest and pressing of grapes was in the fall, but the Passover meal (which we celebrate as the Eucharist) was in the spring. Given that this was almost two millenia before Dr. Welch’s invention of the grape juice pasteurization process, there is no way that what was poured into the cups at the Passover meal was grape juice.

D

Bread is bread, I agree. If I go to Dennys and order toast I certainly would be shocked to be served a wafer.

 

[commenter]

commenter:

Augustinian:

BoomerangToo:

Whatever. These people are dumb as a bag of rocks.

Calling people “dumb” because they have different ideas isn’t any way to make friends. A lot of religious beliefs may seem “stupid” to the uninitiated. But pointing and laughing at this belief is just as bad a form as poking fun at a devout Hindu’s statue of the elephant god or a Sikh’s turban. Doesn’t make any friends or converts.

My late Baptist friend not only believed in something like the Trail of Blood, she also believed the Earth was created in 7 24 hours days, with all species, no evolution. She also regarded abortion as murder, and marriage as involving one man and one woman.

Some of my Catholic and Protestant friends have what appears to be more accurate beliefs on church history, and biology. But they also accept legal abortion and same sex marriage.

There is no doubt my Baptist friend had far greater wisdom overall than my other friends. She was definitely closer to the core of Catholicism than those other friends.

Thanks for sharing this. I find it intriguing. Any chance of getting you to share what the core of Catholicism comprises?

EEK! Talk about tough assignments! All I can do is suggest a few points, grossly incomplete.

• Commitment to know, love and serve God; Prayer.
• Commitment to love neighbor;
• Learning and relying on what is True and Right: Scripture, Tradition, the Magisterium are guides here.
• Active avoidance of sin: awareness of the World, the Flesh, and the Devil. All 3 are dangers, but in our time the World being the greatest IMHO.
• Reliance on the sacraments as partly natural, partly supernatural channels of God’s grace towards ongoing conversion. The Mass.
• “Mercy” in both senses: God’s forgiveness and our forgiveness of others; and: proactive caring for persons, as children of God.
• Other things, fit into the existing outline (Mary, think Incarnation), intercession (think God’s providential care, communion of saints); and so on.
  Again, I went way beyond the topic of the thread, and threw some things on “paper” in a hurry. In an hour more I would have thought of other stuff. So now, back to the topic, “Blood”.

 

[DaveBj]

And I agree with you totally. I have no arguement with that. What get’s me is when I read that using grape juice is blasphemous or very, very bad. I just wonder at the rationale for those comments.

I became friends with an alcoholic who got dry through AA. He vowed to never take a drop again. He shared with me that his Lutheran Church made no provision for an alternative for him so he could not commune.

How does the CC handle it?

No way I would go so far as to use terminology like “blasphemous”. It falls into the arena of what is or is not proper “matter”. I know the rules, but I can’t keep the terminology straight. I know that our parish is doing it right, and that’s as far as my concern goes.

As for your last question, the Catholic Church believes that the whole Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ is contained in either species. For centuries the laity were given only the Host, and not the Cup. It has been only in the past few decades that the Faithful have been allowed Holy Communion in both species, but there is no requirement that they receive both. In our parish, many receive only the Host, and pass by the Cup.

D

 

[DaveBj]

Bread is bread, I agree. If I go to Dennys and order toast I certainly would be shocked to be served a wafer.

The wafer is bread – unleavened bread, as required for Holy Communion in the Roman rite.

D

 

[ReformedProtestant]

How did the Baptists start with the Apostles? The Apostles drank wine, Jesus drank wine, St. James says a little bit of wine is good for you. Baptists don’t drink, or at least it is forbidden by the official doctrine of the Baptist Church

The Baptists that you are referring to would make some argument that the wine that the Apostles drank and that Jesus drank and Paul encourages Timothy to drink was not as potent as the wine on our shelves… or something like that.

Anyway, not all Baptists are teetotalers. I am a member of a Southern Baptist Church in Virginia. I love craft beer and good bourbon. Our pastor keeps good beer on tap in the bar in his basement… So although most Baptists are teetotalers, it is not official “doctrine” it is “tradition” that stems from the temperance movement in the USA.

where were the Baptists in AD33 …

John the Baptist was already martyred at that point in history
Can you smell me?

 

[thephilosopher6]

The host is bread, that is what is needed.

 

[mythbuster1]

It’s dead. Communion must be alive.

 

[mythbuster1]

If they did, they’d be declaring themselves non-Christians. When Paul encountered disciples of John who had been baptized with John’s baptism, he baptized them, because they had not received Christian baptism.

 

[poche]

Historically the Baptists of today go back to the time of Ann Hutchison and Roger Williams in the 17th century.

 

[po18guy]

Each and every doctrine or belief that is unique to the various Baptist conventions occurred at the earliest around 1609 or later (John Smyth). The man-made doctrine of bible alone made such licentious formation of beliefs possible since… you know.
Any and all claims of tracing back to either our Lord or his Apostles is pure fantasy at best. Sad fact, but fact it is.

 

[steve-b]

KatyCatholic:

How did the Baptists start with the Apostles? The Apostles drank wine, Jesus drank wine, St. James says a little bit of wine is good for you. Baptists don’t drink, or at least it is forbidden by the official doctrine of the Baptist Church

The Baptists that you are referring to would make some argument that the wine that the Apostles drank and that Jesus drank and Paul encourages Timothy to drink was not as potent as the wine on our shelves… or something like that.

Anyway, not all Baptists are teetotalers. I am a member of a Southern Baptist Church in Virginia. I love craft beer and good bourbon. Our pastor keeps good beer on tap in the bar in his basement… So although most Baptists are teetotalers, it is not official “doctrine” it is “tradition” that stems from the temperance movement in the USA.

where were the Baptists in AD33 …

John the Baptist was already martyred at that point in history
Can you smell me?

I think the real point being made,

Historically speaking, John the Baptist did not start the Baptist “religion”, nor “churches”. There is no references properly referenced in history, of that happening.

historically speaking, references properly referenced, shows John Smyth in the 16th century beginning that sect.

 

[Vonsalza]

ReformedProtestant:

KatyCatholic:

How did the Baptists start with the Apostles? The Apostles drank wine, Jesus drank wine, St. James says a little bit of wine is good for you. Baptists don’t drink, or at least it is forbidden by the official doctrine of the Baptist Church

The Baptists that you are referring to would make some argument that the wine that the Apostles drank and that Jesus drank and Paul encourages Timothy to drink was not as potent as the wine on our shelves… or something like that.

Anyway, not all Baptists are teetotalers. I am a member of a Southern Baptist Church in Virginia. I love craft beer and good bourbon. Our pastor keeps good beer on tap in the bar in his basement… So although most Baptists are teetotalers, it is not official “doctrine” it is “tradition” that stems from the temperance movement in the USA.

where were the Baptists in AD33 …

John the Baptist was already martyred at that point in history
Can you smell me?

I think the real point being made,

Historically speaking, John the Baptist did not start the Baptist “religion”, nor “churches”. There is no references properly referenced in history, of that happening.

historically speaking, references properly referenced, shows John Smyth in the 16th century beginning that sect.

Quite right.

The “Trail of Blood” is a religious view, rather than a historical one.

Virtually any historian that didn’t have a religious bias on the issue would laugh in your face if you suggested that Baptists existed prior to the reformation. And most would be quick to point out that the “Baptists” of the 16th century and the (largely southeastern American) Baptists of the 19th and 20th have little in common.