Transgender teen who died of an apparent suicide: ‘Fix society. Please.’

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oldcatholicguy said:
I’m not forgetting the differences between being homosexual and engaging in homosexual activity. The stigma I am referring to applies to both, and given the selective stigma applied to heterosexual activity outside of marriage (i.e. girls and women are sluts, boys and men are just “sowing their wild oats”) one can hardly argue that either stigma is justified. It would be different if all sexual activity outside of marriage and all parties involved in said activities had a similar stigma attached to them (and here just for their activities, not because of who they are).
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.Women nowadays are not called sluts but are "embracing their sexuality"Society and laws encourage them to do so but only with adequate protection from disease and pregnancy That is the societal view whereas the view of the Catholic Church is that sexual activity outside of marriage is sinful.

The Catholic view is also that God made us male and female and that is generally evident at birth
 
SuperLuigi said:
:doh2:

I can’t stand it when people use tragedy to try and advance an agenda! :mad:

In that case:
  1. NO ONE has a monopoly on grief, suffering and tragedy and
  2. Suicide is a SELFISH sin. :mad:
EOM.
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If suicide is not the outcome of mental illness, then it needs to be stressed not only how selfish it is, but how much hostility and hatred are involved.

Suicide is a form of murder.

The agenda is being advanced by a calculated murder.
 
Women nowadays are not called sluts but are "embracing their sexuality"Society and laws encourage them to do so but only with adequate protection from disease and pregnancy That is the societal view whereas the view of the Catholic Church is that sexual activity outside of marriage is sinful.
Which doesn’t actually address my point concerning stigmas
The Catholic view is also that God made us male and female and that is generally evident at birth
I don’t see how this fits into our discussion. I’m not making a claim that the gender we are physically born with can be the wrong gender.
 
oldcatholicguy said:
How would having artificial breasts and a fake vagina improve this persons sexual identity other than being camouflage so that he can pretend to have (guilt-free?) “heterosexual sex” with men. (Or ‘lesbian’ sex with other women.)
You mean homosexual sex with a male or heterosexual sex with a female since your argument is that these fake body parts don’t actually change the person’s gender

What difference does it make? Why do you want to segregate and put people into categories?
That’s kind of hypocritical of you.
…Lesbian teens. Gay teens. Transgender teens. Questioning teens. Bi-curious teens. Cross-dressing teens. Effeminate boys. Butch girls.
The only difference here is that these are not adults deciding for themselves.
Because gender and sexual attraction are two different things. It’s rather hard to treat or counsel anyone if one doesn’t bother to identify correctly what disorders they have. A person could very well have a gender disorder but not a sexual attraction disorder, or just a sexual attraction disorder, or have both, or have neither.
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Sexual attraction is a very broad term as humans can exhibit a wide , bizarre, and evil spectrum of sexual preferences whether is be with children, animals, objects or those of the same sex (where it is impossible to have sexual intercourse.). Being attracted to the same sex generally means you find that type of body more pleasing esthetically and that the viewing of it leads to eroticism , erotic thoughts and the desire to engage in some sort of mutual masturbation culminating in an orgasm.

Just because a group of men and women claim gender identity disorder is real and can be treated with surgery does not make it truth. The same medical community says that the human fetus is not a real person either until a specific stage of development and therefore can be surgically dismembered or as in the case of partial birth abortion the brain surgically removed to facilitate delivery
 
cjforJesus said:
Sexual attraction is a very broad term as humans can exhibit a wide and bizarre and evil spectrum of sexual preferences whether is be with children, animals, objects or those of the same sex (where it is impossible to have sexual intercourse.). Being attracted to the same sex generally means you find that type of body more pleasing esthetically and that the viewing of it leads to eroticism , erotic thoughts and the desire to engage in some sort of mutual masturbation culminating in an orgasm.

Just because a group of men and women claim gender identity disorder is real and can be treated with surgery does not make it truth. The same medical community says that the human fetus is not a real person either until a specific stage of development and therefore can be surgically dismembered or as in the case of partial birth abortion the brain surgically removed to facilitate delivery
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-You’re grouping two separate items together. Gender identity disorder and the ability of treating it successfully with surgery.
-Some members of the medical community claim this, others don’t; and some of the others that don’t still participate in abortions.
 
Rin said:
The ideology the Holy Father addressed and criticized in the speech referenced above, gender deconstructionist theory, has nothing whatsoever to do with the medical diagnosis and treatment of gender dysphoria (formerly called transsexualism), and the fact that Cardinal Antonelli makes the jump from pp. Benedict’s speech to transsexualism, only proves that Cardinal Antonelli has no clue about what the diagnosis entails.

The medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria, and the treatment thereof, is not based on gender deconstructionist theory. On the contrary, a transgender individual does not think that they can (or want to) change their gender. Most report having been that way from birth. The Pope effectively (and rightly!) criticized gender deconstructionism in his speech. But he did not criticize the medical phenomenon of gender dysphoria, nor the treatment thereof. If he intended to, he still did not do it - it is simply not contained in the text. Only someone ignorant on the subject will see the speech as an condemnation of transgenderism.

Seriously, American Conservatives only have two things to cling to in this debate - the sub secretum pastoral (not doctrinal) document, which states that sex reassignment does not change your gender, and Pope Benedict’s speech. As for the former, well, d’oh. No one claims that sex reassignment changes your gender. When a patient undergoes male-to-female sex reassignment, it is because she is, always was, and always will be female. The same obviously goes for female-to-male. As for the latter, the speech simply does not apply to transgenderism, since the ideology described does not fit with the opinion of most transgender individuals. To clarify, most transgender individuals would agree wholeheartedly with Pope Benedict’s speech.

So I can only conclude that the basis for the American Conservative stance in this specific case is nil. They are grasping for straws, and cannot even prove that the Church agrees with them. Which is good, since the Church would in that case violate what Vatican I has to say about the limitations of papal infallibility (the Pope can never pronounce on matters scientific, and gender is determined through science, not faith), much like She did during the heliocentrism feud.
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And who is to make the proper diagnosis of gender dysphoria? Do you have evidence that the therapists that this young man saw were not properly trained?

Perhaps the parents were not able to afford proper care because of large cost increases in the healthcare they had when Obamacare policies raised rates? (This last hypothetical difficulty is much more likely than your assumption that gender dysphoria is a correct diagnosis for this young man.)

In any case a post-mortem diagnosis of his condition is certainly not helpful regarding this tragedy. The surgery went well, the patient died?
 
oldcatholicguy said:
-You’re grouping two separate items together. Gender identity disorder and the ability of treating it successfully with surgery.
-Some members of the medical community claim this, others don’t; and some of the others that don’t still participate in abortions.
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There is no such thing as “gender identity disorder”. It is a fabricated term created to try to rationalize a severe psychological problem of genital hatred.One of the supposed key symptoms of the “disorder” is repulsion or disgust at one genitals which is a BIG red flag in regards to it being something deeply psychological.
 
cjforJesus said:
There is no such thing as “gender identity disorder”. It is a fabricated term.
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I see, so the professionals don’t use the term and/or it’s not the layman’s version of the term they use to describe the same thing? It’s merely something created by non-professionals for political reasons?
 
RileyG said:
Hello,
Friendly warning: This is a Catholic website and we do not support the homosexual or transsexual lifestyles.

So, sad. I offered a Divine Mercy Chaplet for the repose of Joshua’s soul the other day; Ultimately, mutating your own body will not solve anything but make the cross heavier to bear. 😦

Eternal rest grant unto Joshua, O Lord, and let perpetual light shine upon him. May he rest in peace. Amen. +
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Thank you Riley.

Perhaps you would like to see the poem that those at the U.N. who favor gender deconstructionist theory would probably not like you to see. Although, youthful targets are certainly good fodder for this poem.

Lullay, Thou little tiny Child,
Bye, bye, lully, lullay.
Lullay, Thou little tiny Child.
Bye, bye, lully, lullay.

O sisters, too, how may we do,
For to preserve this day;
This poor Youngling for whom we sing,
Bye, bye, lully, lullay.

Herod the King, in his raging,
Charged he hath this day;
His men of might, in his own sight,
All children young, to slay.

Then woe is me, poor Child, for Thee,
And ever mourn and say;
For Thy parting, nor say nor sing,
Bye, bye, lully, lullay.
 
Matt Abbot, Catholic Columnist at Renew America:
I asked Father Richard Perozich, pastor of Immaculate Conception Catholic Church in San Diego – who’s had considerable experience with counseling and providing spiritual direction to those who struggle with same-sex attraction – to comment on this story.
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Father Perozich’s response is as follows:
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Read more at: renewamerica.com/columns/abbott/150102
 
oldcatholicguy said:
I see, so the professionals don’t use the term and/or it’s not the layman’s version of the term they use to describe the same thing? It’s merely something created by non-professionals for political reasons?
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No,the “professionals” as you call them created the term sometime in the 1970s because before that time it was considered along with homosexuality to be a deeply rooted psychological problem. Now it is being promoted as just one of the many spectrums of sexuality.A sexuality where you hate your genitals to the point of wanting them gone or changed. No matter how much surgery one has a male can never be a female and the pseudovaginas created by surgery only function as receptacles for penises. They are surgical holes.
 
St_Francis said:
We are discussing issues related to the suicide. Were we talking with a person who had these issues, I am sure each of us would approach the conversation differently.

When people are discussing an issue, they must put aside many of their own feelings, which might otherwise get in the way. For example, in discussing the *issue *of porn addiction, people would talk very differently than they would if someone came to them and said they had that type of problem.

If we allow our feelings to interfere with the discussion, ideas can get out of place. The Church teaches that euthanasia is a sin. It is also illegal in most states. If a discussion about the law were to take placr, it would certainly sound unfeeling to someone who had perhaps made a decision in a place where it would be legal to do to to have a doctor take immoral steps to end a suffering loved one’s life. This is why we discuss policy and morality in impersonal ways, but with people who have *personal *sityations, we have completely different conversations, much more sensitive conversations.

This is actually a phenomena understood in psychology. (I will try to find an article I read about this.) A good example is when Cindy Sheehan, whose son was killed in Iraq, started protesting against the war. People could not discuss the resumption of hostilities with her or near her, because her emotional involvement was such that that would have been insensitive.

In short, the fact that I am polite to a man I know to be an adulterer does not mean I cannot in another venue advocating making adultery illegal as it once was.

He was male. The is a fact. Hormonal treatment and mutilation of his body would not have changed that fact. If I met a diagnosed mentally ill person who insisted he was Napoleon, I would not refer to him as the Emperor, either.

Apparently you missed the post I made previous to the one In which I answered your post, in which I pointed out that the young man’s causing someone else to kill him by stepping out in front of a truck probably caused a lot of emotional damage to that driver, and his posts about his parents which he timed to show up after his death on the internet for all the world to see was rather manipulative.
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Hi,
I read your response which was under mine. I had no hate in my dialogue. I was taught homosexuality was a perversion in the psych books in 1967 in nursing school. My brother was molested by a neighbor (unbeknownst to me) He was our little black sheep getting into trouble all the time. He was sent to reform school w Christian Brothers and after the priest scandal (who knows).He talked of beatings but nothing else. I was 12 yo. I didn’t know what molested meant. He was bisexual in adult life. I loved him. As a critical care nurse, I held those ,who had AIDs, in my arms as they cried as they knew their lives were running out of time. I would pray w them. I would sing church songs to them. I did that survey earlier in the 1990’s. They were all dying at the time. I did work in ICU. It was before they came out treating w multiple drugs. It was a small survey but all 35 said, they were molested. But in the early 2000’s the experiment anything started So, the teens would try homosexuality to see if they were. I am not naive. Too many estrogens in a male would make them feel feminine. Gender identity problems are new and I just don’t know. We are always challenged on our value system. In our confusion, God still loves us. But, what is the treatment for these conditions. How would God want us to treat them? One the treatment starts with love. If your body is a man’s body would it be wrong to take testosterone and get counseling to learn to accept my body as a man. Would my spirit really be a female and I would get a male body in birth??It is not in my job description. So, this sweet transgender person graces my life and I love and enjoy her. I would ask her if she thought or if anyone offered her a testosterone treatment. My granddaughter doesn’t want me to talk to her and she guards her. God forbid I tell her about Jesus’love. God forbid I ask her about how she is doing.
God sets before us situations where our Faith is challenged. I do feel truth is important. But the greatest of all the gifts is love. So, that is what I give.
In Christs’ love,
tweedlealice 🤷
 
cjforJesus said:
No,the “professionals” as you call them created the term sometime in the 1970s because before that time it was considered along with homosexuality to be a deeply rooted psychological problem. Now it is being promoted as just one of the many spectrums of sexuality.A sexuality where you hate your genitals to the point of wanting them gone or changed. No matter how much surgery one has a male can never be a female and the pseudovaginas created by surgery only function as receptacles for penises. They are surgical holes.
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Well I call them professionals, sans the “”, because they did actually get a formal education on the subject and they did actually get a medical degree and they did actually base their career on researching and treating mental disorders and illnesses. I use the professionals with the “” to describe people who aren’t actually professionals but think they know better than the actual professionals.
 
It is a big problem for the credibility of the social sciences that about 90 percent of their professionals come from a leftist point of view.
With a hard science like physics, it wouldn’t really matter. But with the much more ambiguous results of data coming from the soft sciences, the implications of the uncertainty principle place the one doing the measurements not just in the position of collecting data, but in the position of god, deciding what is important and what is relevant.
 
Joie_de_Vivre said:
The repeated conflations of gender dysphoria and sexuality are strongly indicative of his lack of knowledge of the subject, i.e. he doesn’t know what he is talking about.
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“Gender dysphoria, dissatisfaction with the gender God has given to a person at birth, is one expression of an unconscious attempt to deal with some mental or psychological anguish.”- Father Perozich from the article.
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Gender identity disorder (GID) or gender dysphoria is the formal diagnosis used by psychologists and physicians to describe people who experience significant dysphoria (discontent) with the sex they were assigned at birth and/or the gender roles associated with that sex.-
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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity_disorder
 
Looks like he DOES know what he’s talking about.
Thanks again Path_Finder. 👍
 
I’ve spent years listening to the liberal left “gender equality lobby” complaining about heterosexist, CIS gender, role-conditioning in advertising, fashion and kids toys etc.

They have been telling us for decades that tabula rasa children CAN be psychologically conditioned/confused to prefer x, or y or z based on how they are nurtured.

The modern day LGBTQ lobby clearly agrees with them (despite their protestations that everyone’s sexual preferences and identity are fixed from birth/conception.)
 
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