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WonderAndAwe
Guest
You do realize that those are incredibly rare instances, much moreso than someone with a perfectly healthy chromosomaly perfect body thinking they have the wrong baby-making bits right?
Transgender teen who died of an apparent suicide: ‘Fix society. Please.’
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SMGS127
Guest
I’m advocating banning conversion “therapy” for MINORS. Read the post you quoted. No one in the country is advocating for the banning of quack therapy for adults who can make free choices. But forcible conversion therapy of minors IS child abuse.
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SMGS127
Guest
So you consider an error-prone system infallibly linked to one’s immutable gender?
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WonderAndAwe
Guest
I never said that. If anything, what I said was more along the line of “The Exception, not the Rule.”
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St_Francis
Guest
But they didn’t beat him with a belt, did they?
If this young man had been on drugs, and his parents had taken him out of school and ket him away from those whom the parents suspected of using drugs, what would you say? Would you say the parents were being cruel and abusive, that they were locking him away from the world? I know of families who have moved to a new part of the country to get their children away from drugs.
But we all agree that becoming a drug addict is not a good idea, so taking extreme measures to get one’s child away from drug and influences towards using drugs, even if that means keeping the child away from people the child believes are supportive, when in fact the friends are just people who support drug use, is all right and not abusive.
I had a friend in high school who got involved with drugs to the point her parents sent her to a drug rehab, and she bitterly resented that. She hated being told she was addicted to drugs and being told she must admit that she was. She died of an overdose.
So here’s this young man with serious psychological problems, as we normally term those whose ideas are in total conflict with reality, whose parents want him to be well. They try to keep him away from influences which would support his illusions, they take him to counselors who are reported by the young man to be doing this and that.
And then this young man goes out and *gets someone else to kill him. *Has no one considered this? He didn’t kill himself–he stepped in front of a speeding truck and what do you think the truck driver will go through for the rest of *his *life? I’m sorry, but this seems like an ultimate act of bullying to me, to do that to a complete stranger, and then leaving all those nasty comments about his parents *on the internet for the world to see. *
Maybe it’s because my children were watching a video of a teenager throwing a total 2yo-type tantrum, but that’s what I think this “suicide” was, given the facts in hand.
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St_Francis
Guest
Are you saying that all non-Catholics are always filled with such kindness, and that none ever make remarks that others might take amiss? It seems to me that in your decision-making process that your priorities are mixed up: people should be Catholic because they are grateful to God the Father for creating them and to Jesus for having died on the cross for them, and thus Catholics love God and want to spend eternity with Him, not because all the ofher Catholics meet our standards.
We are all sinners, and works *in progress. *
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Finite
Guest
[SIGN][/SIGN]
Even the insisting to refer to the child as “he” is being beaten to death. The child clearly identified as a she and likely wanted to be remembered as She. I personally respect the wishes of the dead, regardless of my personal views on transgender issues, not insist on saying what I know would hurt the person if they were still alive just because of MY beliefs. This child’s death isn’t an opportunity to stick it to the PC crowd. It’s an opportunity to reflect on how we can better approach such issues.
What I’ve seen here is selfishness.
I think you’re reading too much into what I said. ALL people should approach this in an appropriate way, and once again, I hope no children with gender identity issues read this thread. I stand by my comment about being disillusioned with the church. Again. ALL people should be approaching this with kindness, but what I’m seeing said here isn’t the kind of thing I was taught growing up in a catholic household. I always was taught that Catholics set the example. What I’m seeing here is mean spirited and insensitive statements.
Even the insisting to refer to the child as “he” is being beaten to death. The child clearly identified as a she and likely wanted to be remembered as She. I personally respect the wishes of the dead, regardless of my personal views on transgender issues, not insist on saying what I know would hurt the person if they were still alive just because of MY beliefs. This child’s death isn’t an opportunity to stick it to the PC crowd. It’s an opportunity to reflect on how we can better approach such issues.
What I’ve seen here is selfishness.
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Latinitas
Guest
What people forget about this is a very simply but profound truth: Virtue is *very *difficult to acquire. There’s a reason the Scriptures compare the virtuous man and woman to gold and jewels.
This is a universal truth, it’s true when you’re young, it’s true when you’re old and it’s true in between. I do feel bad for this person (I’ll avoid the dispute about man or woman), as (s)he had a lot going against him/her. (S)he thought, like most people do today, that something so hard cannot be the true way, it cannot be God’s will. Is (s)he to blame for this? I’ll leave God to judge that. It’s very likely that having been raised in this culture that (s)he’s been fed that since his/her youth.
This is not merely a matter of teenage-ness, or hormones, or societal problems or whatever. We have human nature against us. We have the devil and his minions against us. We have the world against us when try to think and act virtuously.
Pelagian anthropology is at the root of most of the erroneous views of our times.
I’ll say prayers for this person and the family tonight/this morning.
Benedicat Deus,
Latinitas
This is a universal truth, it’s true when you’re young, it’s true when you’re old and it’s true in between. I do feel bad for this person (I’ll avoid the dispute about man or woman), as (s)he had a lot going against him/her. (S)he thought, like most people do today, that something so hard cannot be the true way, it cannot be God’s will. Is (s)he to blame for this? I’ll leave God to judge that. It’s very likely that having been raised in this culture that (s)he’s been fed that since his/her youth.
This is not merely a matter of teenage-ness, or hormones, or societal problems or whatever. We have human nature against us. We have the devil and his minions against us. We have the world against us when try to think and act virtuously.
Pelagian anthropology is at the root of most of the erroneous views of our times.
I’ll say prayers for this person and the family tonight/this morning.
Benedicat Deus,
Latinitas
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tweedlealice
Guest
Hi
I know how the Bible portrays homosexuality w Sodom and Gomorrah. I agree. It doesn’t seem natural as all parts of our body have specific purposes. Our mouths eat food and kiss. Song of Solomon can be referred to for sexual activities. The rectum is for evacuation. The urethra is for urine excretion. If it was larger would we be sticking things in there if it felt good??? The vagina is for menstrual flow and birthing children and for procreating children
If we don’t procreate, we become extinct. So, why would homosexuality be blessed by God as it has no purpose for procreation which is why we have pheremones and our sexuality and certain orifices which are committed for that purpose. Homosexuality has existed since before the Egyptians. The Greeks really went with it. The Israelis and Arabs have bestiality
A message from God for clarity for His chosen people was needed a long time ago. Gabriel should have told Mohammed this message. Strange.
I, as a nurse in the ER, have been challenged on my feelings on these issues and my granddaughter’s friends fit these categories. I think my granddaughter is okay, please God. The transgender fella that graces my life now is very sweet. In fact, saying "she"is not painful. She has the sweetest voice. She sings soprano and has been classically trained. She is on hormone therapy. She is more girl than boy. Sometimes, I just have to give up trying to FIX THINGS. I am not to judge her. My granddaughter doesn’t let me get near them to make sure I won’t say anything that might hurt her. I, truly, feel love for her. I pray she isn’t hurt in life w the issues she has to address. God doesn’t make mistakes! But, the “sins of the father are passed down from generation to generation.” Who knows. God will have to do this problem. I feel hatred and anger are more harmful than this problem. Her spirit is very sweet.My job is to love her and when God wants me to address His love for her and maybe a different way she could go, he’ll have my granddaughter let me pass. They need a Christian counselor that will not judge them. They need testosterone and group therapy w same type individuals. They need to try and accept themselves as their body shape as (a man). With society pushing for acceptance of this thinking, whereby children in primary school can chose the bathroom of their choice, How can we get them to rethink that which they think they have solved??
I know how the Bible portrays homosexuality w Sodom and Gomorrah. I agree. It doesn’t seem natural as all parts of our body have specific purposes. Our mouths eat food and kiss. Song of Solomon can be referred to for sexual activities. The rectum is for evacuation. The urethra is for urine excretion. If it was larger would we be sticking things in there if it felt good??? The vagina is for menstrual flow and birthing children and for procreating children
If we don’t procreate, we become extinct. So, why would homosexuality be blessed by God as it has no purpose for procreation which is why we have pheremones and our sexuality and certain orifices which are committed for that purpose. Homosexuality has existed since before the Egyptians. The Greeks really went with it. The Israelis and Arabs have bestiality
A message from God for clarity for His chosen people was needed a long time ago. Gabriel should have told Mohammed this message. Strange.
I, as a nurse in the ER, have been challenged on my feelings on these issues and my granddaughter’s friends fit these categories. I think my granddaughter is okay, please God. The transgender fella that graces my life now is very sweet. In fact, saying "she"is not painful. She has the sweetest voice. She sings soprano and has been classically trained. She is on hormone therapy. She is more girl than boy. Sometimes, I just have to give up trying to FIX THINGS. I am not to judge her. My granddaughter doesn’t let me get near them to make sure I won’t say anything that might hurt her. I, truly, feel love for her. I pray she isn’t hurt in life w the issues she has to address. God doesn’t make mistakes! But, the “sins of the father are passed down from generation to generation.” Who knows. God will have to do this problem. I feel hatred and anger are more harmful than this problem. Her spirit is very sweet.My job is to love her and when God wants me to address His love for her and maybe a different way she could go, he’ll have my granddaughter let me pass. They need a Christian counselor that will not judge them. They need testosterone and group therapy w same type individuals. They need to try and accept themselves as their body shape as (a man). With society pushing for acceptance of this thinking, whereby children in primary school can chose the bathroom of their choice, How can we get them to rethink that which they think they have solved??
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St_Francis
Guest
We are discussing issues related to the suicide. Were we talking with a person who had these issues, I am sure each of us would approach the conversation differently.
When people are discussing an issue, they must put aside many of their own feelings, which might otherwise get in the way. For example, in discussing the *issue *of porn addiction, people would talk very differently than they would if someone came to them and said they had that type of problem.
If we allow our feelings to interfere with the discussion, ideas can get out of place. The Church teaches that euthanasia is a sin. It is also illegal in most states. If a discussion about the law were to take placr, it would certainly sound unfeeling to someone who had perhaps made a decision in a place where it would be legal to do to to have a doctor take immoral steps to end a suffering loved one’s life. This is why we discuss policy and morality in impersonal ways, but with people who have *personal *sityations, we have completely different conversations, much more sensitive conversations.
This is actually a phenomena understood in psychology. (I will try to find an article I read about this.) A good example is when Cindy Sheehan, whose son was killed in Iraq, started protesting against the war. People could not discuss the resumption of hostilities with her or near her, because her emotional involvement was such that that would have been insensitive.
In short, the fact that I am polite to a man I know to be an adulterer does not mean I cannot in another venue advocating making adultery illegal as it once was.
He was male. The is a fact. Hormonal treatment and mutilation of his body would not have changed that fact. If I met a diagnosed mentally ill person who insisted he was Napoleon, I would not refer to him as the Emperor, either.
Apparently you missed the post I made previous to the one In which I answered your post, in which I pointed out that the young man’s causing someone else to kill him by stepping out in front of a truck probably caused a lot of emotional damage to that driver, and his posts about his parents which he timed to show up after his death on the internet for all the world to see was rather manipulative.
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ucfengr
Guest
You and I have a very different understanding of Catholic teaching and I don’t think citing Jeremiah out of context helps your case.
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estesbob
Guest
Eternal rest grant unto them o Lord
And may perpetual light shine upon them
And may perpetual light shine upon them
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Rin
Guest
This is really sad, and I truly wish someone would have told her there is always hope, and helped her survive just a few more years until she was free of her abusive parents. She was so young, and could have lived a long, good life. But yet, I know how difficult it can be, having attempted suicide at age 19 myself, also predominantly because of gender dysphoria.
Instead of convincing her there is hope, the “therapists” who were supposed to help, drove her to suicide by allying with the parents instead of the patient, by practicing quackery instead of therapy, and by letting ideology overshadow reality. They have her blood on their hands.
Lastly, it is my sincere prayer that no transgender youth stumbles upon this thread. It is triggering enough for a 30-something transgender woman to read some of these posts, far less someone in their vulnerable mid-teens. I sometimes wish this topic was banned entirely on CAF, to be honest.
Eternal rest grant unto her O Lord, and let perpetual light shine upon her. May she rest in peace. Amen.
Instead of convincing her there is hope, the “therapists” who were supposed to help, drove her to suicide by allying with the parents instead of the patient, by practicing quackery instead of therapy, and by letting ideology overshadow reality. They have her blood on their hands.
Lastly, it is my sincere prayer that no transgender youth stumbles upon this thread. It is triggering enough for a 30-something transgender woman to read some of these posts, far less someone in their vulnerable mid-teens. I sometimes wish this topic was banned entirely on CAF, to be honest.
Eternal rest grant unto her O Lord, and let perpetual light shine upon her. May she rest in peace. Amen.
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Church_Militant
Guest
You sure do post a lot on this issue. Do you happen to be gay?
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gracepoole
Guest
Amen.
I can’t agree enough with all you’ve said. What a horrifying and tragic ending to this young woman’s life.
Wow.
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oldcatholicguy
Guest
I fail to see how that matters.
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Thorolfr
Guest
Here’s some interesting news from the Church of England that appeared yesterday in the Daily Mail:
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2892859/First-Church-England-vicar-undergo-sex-change-operation-dies-aged-60-cancer-battle.html
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mkoopman
Guest
No on here would understand the implication of “slam” – certaine moi, are you truly intent on using this tragedy to further your political ends?
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mkoopman
Guest
You should bridge this synthesis even a step farther. The convolutions of the progenitors of ovaries or testicals are not the spindle you need to be overtly concerned about. The capacity to alter alleles in all types of ways essentially exists.
The question is what are parents who need such control over the children that are produced by, not the union of spouses, but the intervention of scientific apparatus?
Many of those supporting “modern” gender theories are chiding the parents - and asking that this thread be "slammed,’ as well, apparently because society is “messed up.”
But, what does wanting specific control over every aspect of a child imply? Is this the level of “messed up” control that should be desired?
If you believe that the parents were “too controlling” and this was problematic - why do you support a “lesser” autonomy in nature of the child at even the early stages of conception?
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SWolf
Guest
What “political ends” would that be?
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