Transgender teen who died of an apparent suicide: ‘Fix society. Please.’

[SMGS127]

Where are you getting that the kids are thrown out? I’m sure there are probably some, but I’m not seeing that as a factor in the article…

The second paragraph:

Nearly seven in 10 (68%) respondents indicated that family rejection was a major factor contributing to LGBT youth homelessness, making it the most cited factor. More than half (54%) of respondents indicated that abuse in their family was another important factor contributing to LGBT homelessness.

 

[meltzerboy]

Yes, I noticed that. Now Grace tells me I am insensitive. My warped sense of humor strikes again!

I, for one, always appreciate your sense of humor. And a little diversionary humor is needed in a thread like this, not to demean in any way the very serious nature of the topic.

 

[cena]

Fine.
Back to the issues then…

LGBTQ activist/columnist Dan Savage:
Parents of Trans Teen Who Ended Life Should Be Prosecuted.

advocate.com/politics/transgender/2015/01/03/mother-transgender-teen-who-killed-self-speaks-out

Joshua Alcorns parents:

---

They shouldn’t be charged for manslaughter and they didn’t throw him at a truck this is too far

 

[Holly3278]

I feel very sorry for this girl and I really feel sorry for her. I hope and pray that someday society changes and becomes more accepting for people like that.

 

[Lion_IRC]

I just looked at the attachment to this thread.
forums.catholic-questions.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=21233&d=1420286062

I appears to be written by someone who says they are the next door neighbor.
Note the comment*…"…my family has always wholeheartedly accepted Leelah…this tragedy would not have occurred if we could have shown our love and support…" *

Why was this teenager not in their care on the night of the suicide?

http://img4021.photobox.co.uk/46717...294501cd5df5d5bd24e4968b2d869a328df243877.jpg

 

[Lion_IRC]

Lion IRC;12637961:

Fine.
Back to the issues then…

LGBTQ activist/columnist Dan Savage:
Parents of Trans Teen Who Ended Life Should Be Prosecuted.

On Twitter, columnist and author Dan Savage demanded an indictment on charges such as child abuse, neglect, reckless endangerment and manslaughter. “#LeelahAlcorn’s parents threw her in front of that truck,” Savage tweeted, referring to the semi tractor trailer that struck Alcorn early Sunday when she stepped in front of it. “They should be ashamed—but 1st they need to be shamed. Charges should be brought.”

advocate.com/politics/transgender/2015/01/03/mother-transgender-teen-who-killed-self-speaks-out

Joshua Alcorns parents:

“We told him that we loved him unconditionally. We loved him no matter what.

They shouldn’t be charged for manslaughter and they didn’t throw him at a truck this is too far

Agreed. That Dan Savage is a disgrace!

 

[estesbob]

I, for one, always appreciate your sense of humor. And a little diversionary humor is needed in a thread like this, not to demean in any way the very serious nature of the topic.

Thx! Although it does often get me in trouble.!

 

[Dawnia]

The second paragraph:

You’re reading into it. That doesn’t say they were kicked out, only the reason they don’t live at home with parents. The same reasoning applies to runaways.

Here is the full study.

Page 4 lists the top 5 reasons for homeless or at risk for being homeless. 46% were runaways and 42% were kicked out. (These numbers include both adults and minors)

Can you be a runaway if you’re an adult? (Making plans if you can. Hawaii is looking good right now.)

 

[St_Francis]

You’re reading into it. That doesn’t say they were kicked out, only the reason they don’t live at home with parents. The same reasoning applies to runaways.

Here is the full study.

Page 4 lists the top 5 reasons for homeless or at risk for being homeless. 46% were runaways and 42% were kicked out. (These numbers include both adults and minors)

Can you be a runaway if you’re an adult? (Making plans if you can. Hawaii is looking good right now.)

Those top 5 reasons add up to more than 100%.

I also wonder how many of them came from homes which included a step-parent or step-parent figure?

 

[mkoopman]

You’re reading into it. That doesn’t say they were kicked out, only the reason they don’t live at home with parents. The same reasoning applies to runaways.

Here is the full study.

Page 4 lists the top 5 reasons for homeless or at risk for being homeless. 46% were runaways and 42% were kicked out. (These numbers include both adults and minors)

Can you be a runaway if you’re an adult? (Making plans if you can. Hawaii is looking good right now.)

Let’s speculate that a “transgender” epidemic is upon us. What might you identify as the root cause of such an apparent anomalous oddity in our current time?

Clearly, as the news media and others continue to make quite ignorant claims it can not be an increase in awareness or a newly raised consciousness. A rise in consciousness is always from a firmer understanding of truth. And, God is truth. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life who brought forth the light to all the nations.

Let’s consider what might be the root cause of a birth defect rise related to gender. Could the use of artificial birth control drugs be the root cause?

So, perhaps there is an increase in gender/mind birth defects because eight year olds are free to go to the pharmacy and buy an hormone bomb without mom and dad knowing what they are doing. And, who (in Hawaii) is all for this as the new normative?

 

[Dawnia]

Those top 5 reasons add up to more than 100%.

I also wonder how many of them came from homes which included a step-parent or step-parent figure?

I gather more than one answer could be cited as the reason. It’s not unusual for there to be family conflict AND abuse.

I kind of gathered from purusing other studies that alcoholism, broken homes, drugs…the usual disfunctional family issues…were a big contributor to runaways/throwaways in general.

 

[Dawnia]

Let’s speculate that a “transgender” epidemic is upon us. What might you identify as the root cause of such an apparent anomalous oddity in our current time?

Clearly, as the news media and others continue to make quite ignorant claims it can not be an increase in awareness or a newly raised consciousness. A rise in consciousness is always from a firmer understanding of truth. And, God is truth. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life who brought forth the light to all the nations.

Let’s consider what might be the root cause of a birth defect rise related to gender. Could the use of artificial birth control drugs be the root cause?

So, perhaps there is an increase in gender/mind birth defects because eight year olds are free to go to the pharmacy and buy an hormone bomb without mom and dad knowing what they are doing. And, who (in Hawaii) is all for this as the new normative?

Huh? You lost me there. I was discussing the article about homelessness. Not sure what you’re talking about.

 

[RGCheek]

Originally Posted by Cider View Post
We see the dangerous ideologies that support transgenderism as normal to the point where someone clearly with a mental illness chooses to sacrifice their life to further the cause. The online post by the boy is clear evidence that that is what happened here.

One recalls that young people have killed themselve because they perceived they had been bullied, excluded socially, mistreated by a teacher, or because some Imam told them they would receive 72 virgins if they did. Unfortunately, they not infrequently take others with them.

The boy was confused, but he didn’t get these ideas that he was a ‘girl in a boys body’ just out of thin air. He had people who reinforced this obviously deranged notion, and my guess is it would be teachers or counselors from school. He said he had been feeling this way since he was four years old, come on. Most people cant remember things that are concrete events from that early an age, much less vague notions like ‘I’
m a girl’.

For crying out loud, what does it even mean to say ‘I feel like a girl’ in this anti-gender discrimination society we live in any way? We are constantly bombarded with the idea that there is no real difference between what girls can do and what boys can do, so in that context how does one possibly ‘feel like a girl’?

Most likely what is meant is something in terms of sexual and social roles and all the ‘enlightened’ are telling the spoon that he is really a tea cup if he thinks he is, never mind the shape he has or utility.

This is an insanity that has come to permeate our society and we need the church to lead the way in a Truthful and loving manner. But the Truth cannot be simply jettisoned in order to play nice with an obviously mentally warped person who has notions not associated with reality.

 

[Kurisu35712]

He had people who reinforced this obviously deranged notion, and my guess is it would be teachers or counselors from school. He said he had been feeling this way since he was four years old, come on. Most people cant remember things that are concrete events from that early an age, much less vague notions like ‘I’
m a girl’.

I’ve been lurking this thread since page 1, but I’ll have to disagree here. I distinctly remember quite a few moments from when I was four, in particular the time I found some books underneath a sofa in the hospital room my younger brother was born in. It’s not infeasible to remember events from when one was four.

That being said, the statement may well be an exaggeration, but it is not insignificant that most transgender individuals report these feelings from an extremely young age. What most people allegedly can or cannot do or remember does not mean that there are no exceptions, and we have no real reason to disbelieve that the individual in question did not experience these feelings at such an early age, other than the average person’s reported memory.

 

[gracepoole]

I’m not aware of the Socratic method requiring abject surrender by the teacher until the student decides to change his mind and agree. That’s what referring to a transgender person using the incorrect gender pronoun really is. Or maybe I’m misunderstanding you.

The Socratic method, in part, requires that an instructor gently guides a student toward an answer by providing open discussion and permitting the student to arrive at said answer seemingly on her own. I can privately, personally believe a student is wholly wrong when she champions abortion. But in my experience, my only hope of leading her to a different conclusion is by respectfully entertaining her ideas (again, as repugnant as they are to me personally), gently challenging them, and permitting her to see the gaping holes in her thinking.

If a male who thinks he is a female is NOT delusional, then is there such a thing as delusional then? That’s not snark, it’s just hard reasoning. It can be presented in an uncompromising manner that isn’t dismissive of the PERSON, just the incorrect reasoning. Yes, this does mean that some will refuse to admit to the possibility of rejection of ideas versus the rejection of the person and be personally offended anyways.

I understand the goal of separating the person from the thinking. I think we just have different ways of playing out what that looks like in conversation.

Good discussion though. I don’t think I fully agree with your approach, but I like your method of discussion. Thanks!

:tiphat: Likewise!

The boy was confused, but he didn’t get these ideas that he was a ‘girl in a boys body’ just out of thin air. He had people who reinforced this obviously deranged notion, and my guess is it would be teachers or counselors from school. He said he had been feeling this way since he was four years old, come on. Most people cant remember things that are concrete events from that early an age, much less vague notions like ‘I’
m a girl’.

For crying out loud, what does it even mean to say ‘I feel like a girl’ in this anti-gender discrimination society we live in any way? We are constantly bombarded with the idea that there is no real difference between what girls can do and what boys can do, so in that context how does one possibly ‘feel like a girl’?

Most likely what is meant is something in terms of sexual and social roles and all the ‘enlightened’ are telling the spoon that he is really a tea cup if he thinks he is, never mind the shape he has or utility.

This is an insanity that has come to permeate our society and we need the church to lead the way in a Truthful and loving manner. But the Truth cannot be simply jettisoned in order to play nice with an obviously mentally warped person who has notions not associated with reality.

I’ve been lurking this thread since page 1, but I’ll have to disagree here. I distinctly remember quite a few moments from when I was four, in particular the time I found some books underneath a sofa in the hospital room my younger brother was born in. It’s not infeasible to remember events from when one was four.

That being said, the statement may well be an exaggeration, but it is not insignificant that most transgender individuals report these feelings from an extremely young age. What most people allegedly can or cannot do or remember does not mean that there are no exceptions, and we have no real reason to disbelieve that the individual in question did not experience these feelings at such an early age, other than the average person’s reported memory.

I’ve got to agree with Kurisu. Memories from early childhood aren’t nearly as rare as some may believe. In fact, these can be unbelievably powerful in comparison with later memories. These memories may fade later in adulthood but it’s not at all surprising that a 17-year-old would remember something from the age of 4.

Additionally, though our communities have made efforts to eliminate gender discrimination, this doesn’t mean that gendering is no longer present. Take a trip through a store like Babies 'r Us – it’s almost impossible to purchase baby gear that isn’t gendered (primary colors for boys and pastels for girls, for example). A girl who chooses not to shave her legs, not to wear make-up, etc. is most definitely aware that she’s bucking the norm (the norm which certainly still exists). Boys who choose to play with kitchen sets and baby dolls are definitely bucking a norm, as well. There is still plenty of social meaning to be being a girl or being a boy. It’s not necessary for us to believe that boys can only do boy things, for example, in order to accept that gendering is still present. I can build a gas grill and change a tire but that doesn’t mean that I don’t feel like a girl.

 

[St_Francis]

The Socratic method, in part, requires that an instructor gently guides a student toward an answer by providing open discussion and permitting the student to arrive at said answer seemingly on her own. I can privately, personally believe a student is wholly wrong when she champions abortion. But in my experience, my only hope of leading her to a different conclusion is by respectfully entertaining her ideas (again, as repugnant as they are to me personally), gently challenging them, and permitting her to see the gaping holes in her thinking.

I understand the goal of separating the person from the thinking. I think we just have different ways of playing out what that looks like in conversation.

:tiphat: Likewise!

I’ve got to agree with Kurisu. Memories from early childhood aren’t nearly as rare as some may believe. In fact, these can be unbelievably powerful in comparison with later memories. These memories may fade later in adulthood but it’s not at all surprising that a 17-year-old would remember something from the age of 4.

Additionally, though our communities have made efforts to eliminate gender discrimination, this doesn’t mean that gendering is no longer present. Take a trip through a store like Babies 'r Us – it’s almost impossible to purchase baby gear that isn’t gendered (primary colors for boys and pastels for girls, for example). A girl who chooses not to shave her legs, not to wear make-up, etc. is most definitely aware that she’s bucking the norm (the norm which certainly still exists). Boys who choose to play with kitchen sets and baby dolls are definitely bucking a norm, as well. There is still plenty of social meaning to be being a girl or being a boy. It’s not necessary for us to believe that boys can only do boy things, for example, in order to accept that gendering is still present. I can build a gas grill and change a tire but that doesn’t mean that I don’t feel like a girl.

I have always like “boy” things more than “girl” things, and I had fleeting thoughts of how much nicer it would be to be a boy, but I never thought I was a boy in a girl’s body. I don’t know whether that would be a thought that one might come to through diving deeper into the notion, or whether it is completely different.

 

[WonderAndAwe]

I have always like “boy” things more than “girl” things, and I had fleeting thoughts of how much nicer it would be to be a boy, but I never thought I was a boy in a girl’s body. I don’t know whether that would be a thought that one might come to through diving deeper into the notion, or whether it is completely different.

My guess is that comes (or might come if Josh’s ideal “societal fix” came to be) to play quite often. Children have instances where they think “what if I was the opposite sex” and naïvely imagine it or whatever, but in a “trans-rights” world any child thinking like that would be told that they are realizing that they are trapped or some trash like that and told to “explore your true self.” This you have normal children having naïvety being mutated into a sick ideology that screws them up for life.

I’m not the only one who feels like this happens/could happen/would happen, right?

 

[Dawnia]

I’ve got to agree with Kurisu. Memories from early childhood aren’t nearly as rare as some may believe. In fact, these can be unbelievably powerful in comparison with later memories. These memories may fade later in adulthood but it’s not at all surprising that a 17-year-old would remember something from the age of 4.

I agree. Memory is a weird thing. Some people remember quite a lot of early childhood and others not so much.

Additionally, though our communities have made efforts to eliminate gender discrimination, this doesn’t mean that gendering is no longer present. Take a trip through a store like Babies 'r Us – it’s almost impossible to purchase baby gear that isn’t gendered (primary colors for boys and pastels for girls, for example). A girl who chooses not to shave her legs, not to wear make-up, etc. is most definitely aware that she’s bucking the norm (the norm which certainly still exists). Boys who choose to play with kitchen sets and baby dolls are definitely bucking a norm, as well. There is still plenty of social meaning to be being a girl or being a boy. It’s not necessary for us to believe that boys can only do boy things, for example, in order to accept that gendering is still present. I can build a gas grill and change a tire but that doesn’t mean that I don’t feel like a girl.

How would you know if you didn’t feel like a girl? What do girls feel like exactly?

 

[WonderAndAwe]

How would you know if you didn’t feel like a girl? What do girls feel like exactly?

I’m a man and I honestly have no clue what it means to “feel like a man.” Is that supposed to mean the trappings of stereotypical manhood appeal to me? Well I hate sports, don’t like touching guns, HATE the taste of beer, would NEVER shop at Lowes and similar retailers, don’t really like cars and my favorite breed of dog is the West Highland White Terrier and not a Husky or something. But I am a man and I now this by a quick glance at my groin. My junk is male, thus I am male.

 

[maryjk]

The boy was confused, but he didn’t get these ideas that he was a ‘girl in a boys body’ just out of thin air. He had people who reinforced this obviously deranged notion, and my guess is it would be teachers or counselors from school. He said he had been feeling this way since he was four years old, come on. Most people cant remember things that are concrete events from that early an age, much less vague notions like ‘I’m a girl’.

By saying “I’m a girl” at four, means that he knew there were differences between boys and girls and what those differences were. All at four.

Yes, some people have early memories. But those memories are in context of the age they were, not based on what they know now.

If a small child, 2 or 3, finds a murder victim, it won’t traumatize them for life. They don’t know that what they found was bad. But the reaction of those around them might. Because those around them know what it means.

That’s why 2 and 3 year old children play with their own poop. They don’t find it gross.

All of that to say, someone only remembers stuff that they could relate to when the event happened. A vague notion, “I’m a girl,” at a age four. Not likely.