Transsexual pronoun dilemma

[Thorolfr]

My sister just recently had her mitral valve replaced = physical cause. Head trauma (injury) resulting from a car accident resulting in cognitive impairment = physical cause.
Depression is due to a chemical imbalance within the brain, not an abnormality of the brain itself, but how it functions - you’re correct there in it’s malfunction - not physical injury/deformity etc.

The brain is a physical organ of the body just like the heart. It is made up of cells called neurons which communicate with each other using chemicals called neurotransmitters. As Kandel notes in his book (pp. 64-65):

Until quite recently psychiatric disorders were notoriously difficult to trace to particular regions of the brain. But today’s brain-imaging technology, specifically PET and functional MRI, have enabled scientists to identify at least some of the neural circuits responsible for depression…Helen Mayberg, a neurologist now at Emory University, found that the neural circuit of depression has several nodes, two of which are particularly critical: cortical area 25 (the subcallosal cingulate cortex), and the right anterior insula. Area 25 is a region where thought, motor control, and drive come together. It is also rich in neurons that produce serotonin transporters - proteins that remove serotonin from the synapse. This is important because serotonin is a modulatory neurotransmitter released by a class of nerve cells to help regulate mood. Modulatory transmitters don’t simply tansmit an impulse from one cell to the next, but “tune” whole circuits or regions. Serotonin transmitters are particularly active in depressed people and are partially responsible for lowering the concentration of serotonin in area 25…Another brain structure that is consistently implicated in both major depressive and bipolar disorders is the gyrus, or raised fold, of the anterior cingulate cortex…Both regions function abnormally in people with mood disorders, which accounts for their varied emotional, cognitive, and behavioral symptoms. The region concerned with emotion is consistently overactive during major depressive episodes and the depressive phase of bipolar disorder.

Based on recent studies, there is little doubt that psychiatric disorders like depression are indeed due in part to abnormalities in certain parts of the brain itself, in cortical area 25, the right anterior insula and the gyrus. All those brain areas function abnormally in people who suffer from depression and other mood disorders. And part of the reason that these areas function abnormally in people with depression or bipolar disorder is because of their genes. As Kandel says:

For the most part, our genes determine whether we are likely to develop a mood disorder. Studies of identical twins who are reared apart - the best way to separate nature from nurture - indicate that if one twin has bipolar disorder, the other twin has a 70 percent chance of developing it.

And genes are also partially responsible for some people being more likely than others to suffer from heart disease or other medical illnesses.

 

[CRV]

Scientism.

If genetics for the most part are responsible for for familial illness, ie 70% as you quote - therefore that leaves only 30% responsibility can be accounted to nurture.

Medical and psychiatric studies and their proof as to causes, changes over time as more is learnt, so I place little faith in it.

I do place my faith in God and His teachings regarding homosexual activites as is stated in the Bible (so is all other immoral sexual activity).

None of what you wrote addresses where our intellect and reasoning ability to discover and know the Truth, and to enact our wills to be in accord with this Truth (for Catholics).

Finally, this subject has been done to death on CAF, as you well know by your posting in threads along these lines. And this thread originally was to do with the OP concerns regarding his friendship with their friend who now identifies as Trans. I’ll stick with God and the Catholic Churchs’ teaching on this subject, not what scientists say - which we know from other illnesses etc - as to the cause can and has changed - and no doubt they’ll change again.

I said all that needs to be said from a Catholic point of view.

So I think out of respect for the OP, I won’t be replying any further.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Are you sure that the OP actually did that? After all Cabeelibob did say

No accusation intended, but it is why people shut others out or avoid them. It’s not about a disagreement, it’s about self-preservation.

 

[Thorolfr]

Thorolfr:

psychiatrists now see our mind as a series of functions carried out by the brain, and they view all mental disorders, both psychiatric and addictive, as brain disorders.

So where does reasoning, using the intellect and employing the will enter into all this?

The brain is one of the most complex things there are. It has around 100 billion neurons in it (give or take a few billion). We are only at the very beginning stages of being able to understand how it works. But new research is coming out all the time. A new book came out only last year by University Distinguished Professor of Psychology at Northeastern University, Lisa Feldman Barrett, How Emotions are Made. Our understanding of how our brains make emotions and allow us to experience joy or fear or anger or love is a very complex issue that is only at the beginning stages, and that is only one small area of brain research.

.

 

[CRV]

My final reply.

That still doesn’t address using our wills - that is just trying to explain emotions. Make emotional decisions, often suffer ill-conceived consequences.

I do not know if you are Catholic, but I have answered from a Catholic perspective, whereas you seem to be answering from a secular perspective. And as this is a Catholic Forum, my above statements stand as I have quoted the teachings of the Catholic Church.

 

[Thorolfr]

My final reply.

That still doesn’t address using our wills - that is just trying to explain emotions. Make emotional decisions, often suffer ill-conceived consequences.

I do not know if you are Catholic, but I have answered from a Catholic perspective, whereas you seem to be answering from a secular perspective. And as this is a Catholic Forum, my above statements stand as I have quoted the teachings of the Catholic Church.

Science is science. There is no such thing as secular science which is different from Catholic science. I mentioned emotions just because that is one subject that I read about recently. That doesn’t mean that how we reason will never be explained as a scientific issue.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

We should help those who are depressed through counselling/therapy and drugs if need be.

I agree. But depression isn’t the only pre-cursor to suicide.

I do not see in first world countries how gender determines what level of education you can obtain

Some rad trads eschew post-secondary education for women and and support trade school only for young men. The latter can be an excellent choice but it’s about control not a savvy vocational decision.

 

[CRV]

But depression isn’t the only pre-cursor to suicide.

You’re right. It isn’t, but I think is the driving factor affecting the thought processes and how life/situation/circumstances/future is viewed.

ome rad trads eschew post-secondary education for women

Oh well - thankfully that’s not the majority.

support trade school only for young men.

Saw a young lady apprentice plumber at the house across the street just this past week

but it’s about control

Perhaps in some circles.

But as I said in an earlier post, I think out of respect for the OP it is best if this ends as the topic is straying from the subject of their op post.
Thank you for the dialogue - I’ve enjoyed discussing it with you.

 

[Thorolfr]

Scientism.

If genetics for the most part are responsible for for familial illness, ie 70% as you quote - therefore that leaves only 30% responsibility can be accounted to nurture.

The 70% figure applies only to Bipolar Disorder. And most disorders are a result of both genetic factors and environmental ones. Our genes interact with our environment, but some people have genes that make them much more susceptible to certain psychiatric disorders than other people if certain environmental issues come into play such as experiencing a lot of stress in their life, for example.

 

[PeterT]

I recently lost a friend of a long time. As in she says we can’t be friends anymore.
She was born Hannah and now goes by Ace.
She said this because I said that I was not able to call her by her prefered pronouns or name. And to be honest, I think that it’s not just that, it is that I do not believe that she is actually/litteraly a man. Looking back perhaps I should have just call her by her prefered pronoun, may not have done anything because it may be about what I believe. And I feel as if I would be participating in the glorification of the mutilation of a God given gift by calling her by the prefered name.

She has also been openly transsexual for a few years now, but it’s never been a problem till now because I just avoided using her newer name and pronouns even though I feel guilty enough about that.

I told her that I love her very much. And I really do. I lost a friend but she certainly didn’t.

She blocked me from virtually every single contact except for visiting her house.

I’m very mad at myself and sad and guilty; thinking like I’m in the wrong like most of the time it seems.

No need for hostilities on this more or less controversial topic. I’m a pretty chill person.

What are your thoughts? Did I do a bad thing? What should I do now?

In similar situations, I call the person by their preferred name. While some names are more “masculine”, others more “feminine” the simple fact is that names aren’t sexual or gender-specific by nature. A name is just a name. So if you friend wants to be called Ace, then fine call her Ace. Calling her Ace doesn’t make her a man.

In similar situations, I do avoid using pronouns since I’m not going to use a female pronoun for a man nor a male pronoun for a woman. Instead, I just refer to the person by the name they want to be called.

 

[Thorolfr]

I’m sorry for your loss.
Are you both teenagers?
Obviously she’s going through some stuff right now, and unfortunately the way things are right now, whatever trauma or fear that triggered all this is most likely to go unaddressed.

We don’t know that Ace’s decision to transition was triggered by some recent trauma or fear. To people on the outside, it might seem like something that happened rather suddenly, but these kinds of things can exist out of view in someone’s head for a very long time before they finally get the courage to do something. This might be because they fear the consequences of making a move like this, fear that their parents, other family members, or friends will react in a negative way and love them less. I first became aware that I was starting to experience sexual and emotional feelings for others of my own sex when I was about 12 or 13, but it took me eight or nine years before I actually came out and told anyone else. And although no one in my family knew and they all thought that everything was fine, I was suffering inside for much of that time.

But there is no doubt that someone like Ace is going through a lot of stuff because it can be incredibly difficult to finally come out and let others know who you really are. And at that time of coming out, there is undoubtedly real fear that people will reject you once they discover who you really are.

 

[Cabeelibob]

She came out several years ago. I just ignored it in an attempt to mind my own buisness. When she asked me what I thought about her being transgender, I asked in reply, “Why is that important?” She kept insisting that I tell her the truth. /
I cannot lie, and especially to a friend.
I asked her not to force me to do something I believe is sinful. She took it as I believe that who she is is sinful. She wouldn’t listen to me saying that only choices and actions are sinful, not something that you didn’t choose.

I think she has surrounded herself in a box of friends that act like a cult, if someone disagrees, they are banished.

She has struggled with depression for a long time and I do pity her. I would do everything I can for her in what would not compromise my moral integrity, as would anyone I would think. I know from my own personal experiences that depression and anxiety is no joke. (For a while I experienced a decent amount of textbook derealization.) I’m not trying to get pity or empathy for that, just saying that I understand how dark life can get.

 

[Cabeelibob]

I believe I will do that.
But if I ever actually send it, knowing her for a long time, I wouldn’t put it past her to ignore it or destory it.
Unless you meant to actually not do send it or slip it under her door.

 

[Lou2U]

No, don’t send it. Keep it for you, to help yourself be at peace, whatever decision you choose to make.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

But there is no doubt that someone like Ace is going through a lot of stuff because it can be incredibly difficult to finally come out and let others know who you really are.

Nowadays? Not so much.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

I think she has surrounded herself in a box of friends that act like a cult, if someone disagrees, they are banished.

You’ve touched on a very interesting observation here.
Not only is she deciding (on whatever basis) to transition, but she surrounded herself with yay-sayers.
There’s definitely a “community” aspect to a lot of this stuff. “We understand you. We accept you”
Sadly, nobody’s actually helping this young lady flourish.

Unlike other mental illnesses, there are tremendous social and legal pressures against studying this condition and searching for a cure.

AND…

Cue about a dozen CAFers insisting: But it’s totally NOT a mental illness! You’re just being meeaan!

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Yes, nowadays. Just because there is more visibility and information is more accessible doesn’t mean that it’s suddenly easy. There is more acceptance but you will be happy to know it’s not as extensive as you think.

 

[JMMJ]

medical not psychological.

The brain is sn organ, just like any other organ. Clearly, it is the least understood of all organs, but mental health is really just health.

 

[JMMJ]

I think she has surrounded herself in a box of friends that act like a cult, if someone disagrees, they are banished

This is interesting. A good exercise may be for you to focus on your friend. Does she turn a shoulder to people who don’t think exactly like she does? For example, you are Catholic. Does she say she can’t associate with you because you seem deranged for believing in the Real Presence? What about if you can’t get together with her on any Sunday morning because you have taken on the obligation of going to Mass? (not saying these have happened, but you can fill in the blanks for similar experiences).

It is easy to call behavior we don’t understand or agree with “cult-like”. Instead of that, I would work really hard to understand the behavior and the choices. It seems the loving thing to do.

I would call your friend by the name she chooses. Avoid pronouns if it really bothers you, although it seems so silly to me. If you can’t accept your friend as she is, then maybe you aren’t friends and you should move on. But be honest about it.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

There is more acceptance but you will be happy to know it’s not as extensive as you think.

It doesn’t make me particularly happy or unhappy.

If a kid is questioning their sexuality, how does it do them any good to have parents and peers condemn them? Pushing down feelings and hiding them is not at all healthy. If I child is questioning, they need a safe place to do it, where they’re not being encouraged to any sort of sexual sin, and at the same time, don’t feel pressured to “act straight”.

Just give them a safe space.

At the same time, we now have an environment where kids are being openly pushed and encouraged to identify as LGBT . Again, how is this helpful?

Most kids, in the absence of propaganda, and given other things to think about besides our current day sexual frenzy, will wind up pair-bonding with a member of the opposite sex.