Trayvon Martin: 'Shoot first' law under scrutiny

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yellow8yellowM said:
I am in 100% agreement. Even if Zimmerman had to defend his life, it was his bad choices that put him in that situation.
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This is why I do not see how he escape at least manslaughter or negligent homicide. Zimmerman behaved recklessly, in my opinion, based on what he himself said on the tapes. It is the same recklessness that this Muhammed character with the Black Panter Party is showing. I did not know that Florida allowed for people to publically put out a contract killing on another. That too is one who needs to be investigated by the police.
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
You asked how it was possible, that’s how. The girlfriend only testifies that Martin said he was being followed, which is not in dispute.

Neither had a violent history, from what has been made public so far. Zimmerman had a history of calling 911, which is consistent with his following and questioning Martin but not with an attack against Martin.

The coronor will tell us if Martin was shot in the abdomen at close range or in the back.
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I have posted this earlier in the thread. Perhaps you missed it?

George Zimmerman, Trayvon Martin’s killer, had prior brushes with the law
 
bbarrick8383 said:
You never would have heard the story if Martin had been white, unless they wanted to promote fun control. Then what? The next Zimmerman uses a bat? Dunno about you but I’ll take a bullet to a bat any day.
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That may be so, but the fact we wouldn’t know about it doesn’t justify defending a man who acted rashly and ended up killing someone. If he weren’t out playing Batman, his nose wouldn’t be broken and the boy wouldn’t be dead.

Nevertheless, I’m curious to see what the federal investigators decide. It could well be that Martin attacked Zimmerman as he was attempting to leave, but seeing as Zimmerman has been arrested for battery before, I think that puts him in a very suspicious light.

The South Florida law enforcement agency that sanctions his neighborhood watch program instructs its members “not to intervene, only to report suspicious activity,” said Broward sheriff’s spokeswoman Veda Coleman-Wright. “They’re prohibited from carrying weapons.”

So the neighborhood watchmen are actually prohibited from carrying weapons to begin with.
Zimmerman had been part of an unregistered neighborhood-watch program in his gated community, Retreat at Twin Lakes. Records show he called police at least 46 times in the last eight years to report various suspicious people and acts. According to the Orlando Sentinel and other news organizations, he was twice accused in 2005 of either criminal misconduct or violence.…
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Florida legislators maintain that Stand Your Ground **does not provide a defense for people like Zimmerman who, despite being told by a 911 dispatcher to stop following Martin, pursued and confronted the youth before shooting him to death. **
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**Zimmerman “has no protection under my law,” said Florida Senator Durrell Peadon, who sponsored the law. And according to state Representative Dennis Baxley, “There’s nothing in this statute that authorizes you to pursue and confront people.” **…
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Wendy Dorival is Sanford’s volunteer coordinator for the Police Department. She helped train Zimmerman. She stated that those involved in neighborhood-watch programs are supposed to be “the eyes and ears” for the police, “not a vigilante.” **Specifically, she said, members “are not supposed to confront anyone. We get paid to get into harm’s way. You don’t do that. You just call them from the safety of your home or your vehicle.” She added that carrying and using a gun on patrol violates protocols. **
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Furthermore, the National Sheriffs’ Association, which sponsors the neighborhood-watch program nationwide, **is 100% clear in its manual on this point as well: “Patrol members do not carry weapons,” have no police power, and should “not attempt to apprehend a person committing a crime or to investigate a suspicious activity.” Lastly, not following the guidelines can result in serious consequences: “Each member is liable as an individual for civil and criminal charges should he exceed his authority.”
**
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In my opinion, that says it all. Whether he felt he was in danger or not, Zimmerman is, to some degree if not totally, at fault. He blatantly disregarded rules of which he was fully aware and the instructions of the 911 dispatcher. Bad choices have consequences.
 
Black Panthers target Zimmerman

SANFORD, Fla. (WOFL Fox 35) – The New Black Panther Party came back to Sanford with a vengeance, the shouted “black power” and “Justice for Trayvon," rallying at the memorial near the scene where Trayvon martin was shot and killed, they didn’t hold back their anger.

“It’s time for us as black men, to take justice in our own hands,” said Mikhail Muhammad of the New Black Panther Party.

**The panthers say they plan to recruit 10,000 men to search for George Zimmerman and arrest him. **

“We want to search, mobilize, organize for the capture of George Zimmerman and we will bring him to justice,” said Muhammad.

Read more: myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/local/032412-Black-Panthers-target-Zimmerman#ixzz1q5hwjvkS
 
Havard said:
I hate to say it, but I kinda do hope the Bayman closes this thread. 😦
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When this thread does close, I hope all will
offer prayers for everyone in both families.
Start to finish, this is a horrible tragedy.
 
Local sources behind selectively reporting national narratives

Points of fact: It was not illegal for Mr. Zimmerman to carry a gun. It was not illegal for Mr. Zimmerman to follow Mr. Martin. It was not illegal for them to exchange words. It does not matter whether Mr. Zimmerman shot Mr. Martin, snapped his neck, or brained him with a rock - lethal force is lethal force.

1.)It was probably illegal for one or the other to initiate violence against one another.

2.) It was also probably illegal for Mr. Martin to continue to beat Mr. Zimmerman after he was down not the ground screaming for help (excessive force), even if Mr. Zimmerman instigated the violence.

3.) The extent to which self-defense allows for legal protection depends on who initiated the violence.

If Mr. Martin knocked Mr. Zimmerman down with a blow from behind, climbed on him, and started beating his face against the concrete while he cried for help then Mr. Zimmerman’s claim of self-defense holds up and there’s no case against him. Until real evidence shows up to the contrary you can’t charge him, let alone punish him.

All the rhetoric about race, children, vigilantism, gun laws, etc. is just foolishness, ax-grinding, and opportunism distracting from the actual process of justice.
  • Marty Lund
 
mlund said:
Local sources behind selectively reporting national narratives

Points of fact: It was not illegal for Mr. Zimmerman to carry a gun. It was not illegal for Mr. Zimmerman to follow Mr. Martin. It was not illegal for them to exchange words. It does not matter whether Mr. Zimmerman shot Mr. Martin, snapped his neck, or brained him with a rock - lethal force is lethal force.

1.)It was probably illegal for one or the other to initiate violence against one another.

2.) It was also probably illegal for Mr. Martin to continue to beat Mr. Zimmerman after he was down not the ground screaming for help (excessive force), even if Mr. Zimmerman instigated the violence.

3.) The extent to which self-defense allows for legal protection depends on who initiated the violence.

If Mr. Martin knocked Mr. Zimmerman down with a blow from behind, climbed on him, and started beating his face against the concrete while he cried for help then Mr. Zimmerman’s claim of self-defense holds up and there’s no case against him. Until real evidence shows up to the contrary you can’t charge him, let alone punish him.

All the rhetoric about race, children, vigilantism, gun laws, etc. is just foolishness, ax-grinding, and opportunism distracting from the actual process of justice.
  • Marty Lund
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Well said, Marty.
 
pnewton said:
Zimmerman behaved recklessly, in my opinion, based on what he himself said on the tapes. It is the same recklessness that this Muhammed character with the Black Panter Party is showing. I did not know that Florida allowed for people to publically put out a contract killing on another. That too is one who needs to be investigated by the police.
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I agree. And the Rev. Al Sharpton behaved recklessly. And the media behaved recklessly. Race-baiting, race-baiting, race-baiting.

What the heck is a white Hispanic?? Why is the Associated Press calling George Zimmerman a white Hispanic, when he is in fact mixed Hispanic/African-American?

Quote from an Associated Press story at masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2012/03/stand_your_ground_law_at_cente.html :

police have said they are confident they did the right thing by not charging 28-year-old George Zimmerman, a white Hispanic.

The shooting’s racial overtones have sparked a national outcry and debate over whether the shooting was warranted.

When the next Allen Coon is going to be doused with gasoline and set on fire while being told “this is what you deserve, white boy”, we should all just send a thank-you note to Rev. Al Sharpton and to the Associated Press. :rolleyes:
 
L_piperatus said:
I agree. And the Rev. Al Sharpton behaved recklessly. And the media behaved recklessly. Race-baiting, race-baiting, race-baiting.

What the heck is a white Hispanic?? Why is the Associated Press calling George Zimmerman a white Hispanic, when he is in fact mixed Hispanic/African-American?

Quote from an Associated Press story at masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2012/03/stand_your_ground_law_at_cente.html :

police have said they are confident they did the right thing by not charging 28-year-old George Zimmerman, a white Hispanic.

The shooting’s racial overtones have sparked a national outcry and debate over whether the shooting was warranted.

When the next Allen Coon is going to be doused with gasoline and set on fire while being told “this is what you deserve, white boy”, we should all just send a thank-you note to Rev. Al Sharpton and to the Associated Press. :rolleyes:
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When this first come out that was the first question out of mine and dh’s mouth. “What is a White Hispanic?” :confused:
 
gilliam said:
Black Panthers target Zimmerman

SANFORD, Fla. (WOFL Fox 35) – The New Black Panther Party came back to Sanford with a vengeance, the shouted “black power” and “Justice for Trayvon," rallying at the memorial near the scene where Trayvon martin was shot and killed, they didn’t hold back their anger.

“It’s time for us as black men, to take justice in our own hands,” said Mikhail Muhammad of the New Black Panther Party.

**The panthers say they plan to recruit 10,000 men to search for George Zimmerman and arrest him. **

“We want to search, mobilize, organize for the capture of George Zimmerman and we will bring him to justice,” said Muhammad.

Read more: myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/local/032412-Black-Panthers-target-Zimmerman#ixzz1q5hwjvkS
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Yes, because the Black Panthers have the power and ability to recruit 10,000 men. The old Black Panthers wouldn’t have been able to assemble that many people the day after the MLK assassination. What an insane remark.
 
Sabda said:
When this first come out that was the first question out of mine and dh’s mouth. “What is a White Hispanic?” :confused:
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Cameron Diaz? As opposed to, say A-Rod, who is at least partially black, or George Lopez, who I assume is mostly native/indigenous.
 
George Zimmerman is a white Hispanic because Hispanic is the ethnicity he is now claiming but his racial category is white. When you guys filled out your census forms you should have noticed that you were asked to check the yes or no box for Hispanic origin then check a second box for your racial heritage. Zimmerman is the child of a Jewish father (white) and a Peruvian mother (mixed-race Hispanic). I would bet an entire years salary that until this incident he had been passing himself off as white.

In any case, he could be a green martian for all I care. What matters is that his irresponsible actions left a child dead and the Sanford Police Department let him go with nothing more than a cursory investigation.
 
SouthCatholic said:
George Zimmerman is a white Hispanic because Hispanic is the ethnicity he is now claiming but his racial category is white. When you guys filled out your census forms you should have noticed that you were asked to check the yes or no box for Hispanic origin then check a second box for your racial heritage. Zimmerman is the child of a Jewish father (white) and a Peruvian mother (mixed-race Hispanic). I would bet an entire years salary that until this incident he had been passing himself off as white.

In any case, he could be a green martian for all I care. What matters is that his irresponsible actions left a child dead and the Sanford Police Department let him go with nothing more than a cursory investigation.
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When I fill out my census forms, I put my name, address, and number of people living in my house, and their ages. No more, no less.
 
The Black Panthers have put a $10,000 bounty for Zimmerman’s capture, and demonstrators across the country, from high school students to celebrities to the entire Miami Heat basketball team, are clamoring for his arrest.
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How can you have a bounty on a man who is not charged with anything?
 
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