Trayvon Martin: 'Shoot first' law under scrutiny

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FOX news is supposed to have an interview with Zimmerman’s father. I only heard bit of it.
One of the suspicious behaviors was walking close to the homes, in their yards, instead of on the sidewalk.

Isn’t all the people actively calling Zimmerman’s actions as due to racism violating hate crimes laws? There is no clear case yet, but they are condemning him, and causing harm, and based solely on Zimmerman’s race. There are death threats, a $5000 bounty, wrong addresses given in which the homeowners have had to flee in fear of their lives, relatives hiding in fear, unable to go to work, nationwide marches and slanderous words spoken. There are some potentially slanderous things written on this list.

Even if Zimmerman is found guilty at some point, he is not so now. There is no clear case, so prejudicial words and actions are solely due to hate and racism.

If a hate crimes suit is filed on behalf of Zimmerman at some point, could people on this list be named? Could their identities be sought by court order? We think we’re just having a discussion, but it’s very public.🤷
Not sure what’s happening elsewhere, but I haven’t seen anybody call him a racist on this thread. Then again, I might not have read every post.
 
What I’m find so amusing is the characterization that Martin was a sweet, innocent child, yet some people are offended by any digging into his true behavior and character.
What I find amazing is the willingness with which people will trash a person who is unable to defend himself and then encourage us to expect better of the admitted shooter.
 
Well, the video has ben released of Zimmerman in the police station. His nose is not bleeding or broken and there’s no gash on the back of his head.

youtube.com/watch?v=6-_Qn9ZEj9Q
Or, more exactly, he doesn’t look like what people expected after growing up on horror movies full of scenes of people soaked with “blood” which in reality is of course nothing but copious amounts of tomato juice.

How do you know his nose is not broken? Have you seen the X-ray? How do you know he hasn’t suffered a skull base fracture from his head being dashed to the pavement? Again, does that video show his X-rays?
 
Is asking a question speculation? And why should I PM you? You made a public statement that he was a watchperson, why wouldn’t you substantiate it publicly?
If your following this case and don’t know that he was a community watchperson who the police were aware of I can’t help you. The PM was for name and address info as you seemed interested in being a watchperson. I’m sure the link will be posted.
 
If your following this case and don’t know that he was a community watchperson who the police were aware of I can’t help you. The PM was for name and address info as you seemed interested in being a watchperson. I’m sure the link will be posted.
I have been following the case and have heard him described as a watchperson but also heard that there was not a registered neighborhood watch in the area. That was why I questioned your assertion.
 
Ah, the outrage over the reprehensible fringe reactions to the outrage over the senseless killing of an innocent child. Publishing links to such sites will no doubt quench all the flames…:rolleyes:
No need for that. My point was that things have gotten nutty very quickly and I don’t know if the runaway train will be stoppable.

"Roseanne Barr Joins Twitter Vigilante CrewStar tweeted home address of George Zimmerman’s parents

MARCH 29–The comedian Roseanne Barr last night tweeted the home address of George Zimmerman’s parents to her 110,000-plus Twitter followers, only to delete the posting after “not fully understanding that it was private not public."…

thesmokinggun.com/documents/roseanne-barr-zimmerman-tweets-893416
 
How do you know his nose is not broken? Have you seen the X-ray? How do you know he hasn’t suffered a skull base fracture from his head being dashed to the pavement? Again, does that video show his X-rays?
I’ve seen nasal fractures before and he clearly doesn’t have one. The police claimed his nose was broken and he had a gash on the back of his head and he clearly doesn’t have either. This proves the police lied
 
Well, the video has ben released of Zimmerman in the police station. His nose is not bleeding or broken and there’s no gash on the back of his head.

youtube.com/watch?v=6-_Qn9ZEj9Q
You don’t see a gash? Did you see the still pictures taken from the video at the link I posted earlier, post #825?
"Police surveillance video of Zimmerman may show head injury

Surveillance video of George Zimmerman arriving at a Sanford, Fla. police station indicates what may be an injury to the back of his head, a Daily Caller analysis shows."…

Blue excerpt from: dailycaller.com/2012/03/29/police-surveillance-video-of-zimmerman-may-show-head-injury/

Just looking at the video, it doesn’t appear to me that Zimmerman has injuries that would have prompted him to use deadly force in return, but it does appear that he has a head injury AND he may have been in mortal danger if his account is true. What I don’t understand is where is blood? Shouldn’t Zimmerman’s shirt have blood on it somewhere? If his nose bled at all, there would be at least a bit of his own blood on it, right? I know bruising takes a bit of time to show up, but I see no blood. Also, it has been claimed that Martin was shot at close range with Zimmerman beneath him, right? So, wouldn’t Martin’s blood be all over Zimmerman? Or, would a hoodie contain Martin’s blood? Also, is it SOP to allow a change of clothes before going to the police station for questioning? I understand that medical attention, be it first aid or a trip to the ER as needed, would be rendered immediately, but would a change of clothes also be allowed?

Is is possible to just have the truth, please?!
 
I’ve seen nasal fractures before and he clearly doesn’t have one. The police claimed his nose was broken and he had a gash on the back of his head and he clearly doesn’t have either. This proves the police lied
Nasal fractures are sometimes minor enough that they don’t require medical treatment to heal or immediate medical attention. If Zimmerman was fit to have a conversation with the police with a broken nose, and wait until the next day for medical treatment, it doesn’t appear that his injury was very severe.
 
No need for that. My point was that things have gotten nutty very quickly and I don’t know if the runaway train will be stoppable.

"Roseanne Barr Joins Twitter Vigilante CrewStar tweeted home address of George Zimmerman’s parents

MARCH 29–The comedian Roseanne Barr last night tweeted the home address of George Zimmerman’s parents to her 110,000-plus Twitter followers, only to delete the posting after “not fully understanding that it was private not public."…

thesmokinggun.com/documents/roseanne-barr-zimmerman-tweets-893416
Tweeting should be done responsibly, particularly when one has large numbers of followers. The retweeting of the erronenous address, or this recent tweeting of the correct one, is not only deplorable, but cannot be linked to any logical or valid adult concept of even remotely responsible behavior.

Anger can be constructively directed to achieve legitimate goals, but this tit for tat is positively dangerous. The direct responsibility lies clearly at the doors of the offending individuals.
 
Early reports (not sure if it was the police report) supposedly indicate that his injury was determined not to require stitches.
“Supposedly” is a big word in a case like this. So for now it’s an odd birth mark.
 
How is examining social media comments “impugning”??

Especially when Zimmerman’s guilt or innocense hinges on one factor: was he attacked by Martin as he claimed?
Do you know for a fact that the accounts referred to, belong to the dead child?
 
I have no doubt that Zimmerman was injured, but it seems that the injuries were minor.
If Z only got a broken nose and a laceration or gash at the back of his head, he is relatively lucky. It could have been much worse. Martin could have killed Zimmerman by dashing his head against the pavement.

Here’s a recent case of a girl dying after a fistfight:

The death of a 10-year-old girl Long Beach, California girl who suffered blunt force trauma to her head in a fight with a classmate and later died has been ruled a homicide, coroner’s officials said Monday.

Long Beach police officers responded just before 6 p.m. Friday to a hospital after being notified that Joanna Ramos, who was unconscious and not breathing, had been brought into the emergency room by her family.

She was taken in for surgery, placed into intensive care in critical condition, and died just before 9 p.m.

She had no visual signs of trauma to her body, police said.

Joanna and a fellow student from Willard Elementary School had been in a fight after school in an alley.

With seven others looking on, the girls took off their backpacks, put their hair in a bun, said “Go” and started hitting each other.

The fight lasted about one minute. It involved pushing and shoving, no weapons and no one was knocked to the ground, police said.

Once the fight was over, both girls left the area and went their separate ways.

Later, Joanna had a bloody nose and wasn’t feeling well so she was taken to the hospital, her family said.

above quote from kveo.com/news/fist-fight-death-ruled-homicide .

Doctor: LB 10-year-old had tell-tale symptom
Tuesday, February 28, 2012

LONG BEACH, Calif. (KABC) – A 10-year-old girl died after a fight with another student. One doctor says it’s important for parents to know the symptoms of brain injury, and when to get medical help.

Head injuries are common among active children. Joanna Ramos, 10, was struck in a fist fight with an 11-year-old girl and died six hours later. It’s a rare death case, according to child neurologist Perry Lubens, but it happens.

“It depends on if her head turned in one direction or went forward and backwards. Some biomechanical force lacerated an artery inside her skull,” Lubens said.

Ramos’ symptoms after the fight, like vomiting, are classic signs of a concussion. But according to Lubens, vomiting and headaches alone are not reasons for alarm.

What was significant, according to Lubens, and what every parent should recognize as a danger sign, is lethargy. Ramos told her mother that she felt tired and wanted to lay down.

“That suggests that there is some kind of swelling going on inside the skull, compressing the brain, compressing the brain stem, and that is dangerous, that is potentially lethal,” Lubens said.

There is no space in the skull for the brain when it swells. It pushes the brain stem, and critical functions, such as breathing, are cut off. When a child gets tired and very sleepy after a hit on the head, it’s time to head to the hospital.

Lubens said Ramos might have been saved had someone known the tell-tale symptom.

“This is a treatable condition. Hemorrhages inside the brain are treatable … but you don’t have a long time,” Lubens said.

above quote from abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/los_angeles&id=8562279 .
 
If Z only got a broken nose and a laceration or gash at the back of his head, he is relatively lucky. It could have been much worse. Martin could have killed Zimmerman by dashing his head against the pavement.

Here’s a recent case of a girl dying after a fistfight:

The death of a 10-year-old girl Long Beach, California girl who suffered blunt force trauma to her head in a fight with a classmate and later died has been ruled a homicide, coroner’s officials said Monday.

Long Beach police officers responded just before 6 p.m. Friday to a hospital after being notified that Joanna Ramos, who was unconscious and not breathing, had been brought into the emergency room by her family.

She was taken in for surgery, placed into intensive care in critical condition, and died just before 9 p.m.

She had no visual signs of trauma to her body, police said.

Joanna and a fellow student from Willard Elementary School had been in a fight after school in an alley.

With seven others looking on, the girls took off their backpacks, put their hair in a bun, said “Go” and started hitting each other.

The fight lasted about one minute. It involved pushing and shoving, no weapons and no one was knocked to the ground, police said.

Once the fight was over, both girls left the area and went their separate ways.

Later, Joanna had a bloody nose and wasn’t feeling well so she was taken to the hospital, her family said.

above quote from kveo.com/news/fist-fight-death-ruled-homicide .

Doctor: LB 10-year-old had tell-tale symptom
Tuesday, February 28, 2012

LONG BEACH, Calif. (KABC) – A 10-year-old girl died after a fight with another student. One doctor says it’s important for parents to know the symptoms of brain injury, and when to get medical help.

Head injuries are common among active children. Joanna Ramos, 10, was struck in a fist fight with an 11-year-old girl and died six hours later. It’s a rare death case, according to child neurologist Perry Lubens, but it happens.

“It depends on if her head turned in one direction or went forward and backwards. Some biomechanical force lacerated an artery inside her skull,” Lubens said.

Ramos’ symptoms after the fight, like vomiting, are classic signs of a concussion. But according to Lubens, vomiting and headaches alone are not reasons for alarm.

What was significant, according to Lubens, and what every parent should recognize as a danger sign, is lethargy. Ramos told her mother that she felt tired and wanted to lay down.

“That suggests that there is some kind of swelling going on inside the skull, compressing the brain, compressing the brain stem, and that is dangerous, that is potentially lethal,” Lubens said.

There is no space in the skull for the brain when it swells. It pushes the brain stem, and critical functions, such as breathing, are cut off. When a child gets tired and very sleepy after a hit on the head, it’s time to head to the hospital.

Lubens said Ramos might have been saved had someone known the tell-tale symptom.

“This is a treatable condition. Hemorrhages inside the brain are treatable … but you don’t have a long time,” Lubens said.

above quote from abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/los_angeles&id=8562279 .
Whats your opinion of the “large line” on top of Zimmermans head?
 
If Z only got a broken nose and a laceration or gash at the back of his head, he is relatively lucky. It could have been much worse. Martin could have killed Zimmerman by dashing his head against the pavement.

Here’s a recent case of a girl dying after a fistfight:

The death of a 10-year-old girl Long Beach, California girl who suffered blunt force trauma to her head in a fight with a classmate and later died has been ruled a homicide, coroner’s officials said Monday.

Long Beach police officers responded just before 6 p.m. Friday to a hospital after being notified that Joanna Ramos, who was unconscious and not breathing, had been brought into the emergency room by her family.

She was taken in for surgery, placed into intensive care in critical condition, and died just before 9 p.m.

She had no visual signs of trauma to her body, police said.

Joanna and a fellow student from Willard Elementary School had been in a fight after school in an alley.

With seven others looking on, the girls took off their backpacks, put their hair in a bun, said “Go” and started hitting each other.

The fight lasted about one minute. It involved pushing and shoving, no weapons and no one was knocked to the ground, police said.

Once the fight was over, both girls left the area and went their separate ways.

Later, Joanna had a bloody nose and wasn’t feeling well so she was taken to the hospital, her family said.

above quote from kveo.com/news/fist-fight-death-ruled-homicide .

Doctor: LB 10-year-old had tell-tale symptom
Tuesday, February 28, 2012

LONG BEACH, Calif. (KABC) – A 10-year-old girl died after a fight with another student. One doctor says it’s important for parents to know the symptoms of brain injury, and when to get medical help.

Head injuries are common among active children. Joanna Ramos, 10, was struck in a fist fight with an 11-year-old girl and died six hours later. It’s a rare death case, according to child neurologist Perry Lubens, but it happens.

“It depends on if her head turned in one direction or went forward and backwards. Some biomechanical force lacerated an artery inside her skull,” Lubens said.

Ramos’ symptoms after the fight, like vomiting, are classic signs of a concussion. But according to Lubens, vomiting and headaches alone are not reasons for alarm.

What was significant, according to Lubens, and what every parent should recognize as a danger sign, is lethargy. Ramos told her mother that she felt tired and wanted to lay down.

“That suggests that there is some kind of swelling going on inside the skull, compressing the brain, compressing the brain stem, and that is dangerous, that is potentially lethal,” Lubens said.

There is no space in the skull for the brain when it swells. It pushes the brain stem, and critical functions, such as breathing, are cut off. When a child gets tired and very sleepy after a hit on the head, it’s time to head to the hospital.

Lubens said Ramos might have been saved had someone known the tell-tale symptom.

“This is a treatable condition. Hemorrhages inside the brain are treatable … but you don’t have a long time,” Lubens said.

above quote from abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/los_angeles&id=8562279 .
Interesting. That’s exactly the case I thought of when wondering why/how he was not immediately taken for imaging to make sure there were no internal injuries to the brain. If a kids’ fight can end in brain hemorrhaging, surely repeated headbanging on concrete carries a risk?
 
If Z only got a broken nose and a laceration or gash at the back of his head, he is relatively lucky. It could have been much worse. Martin could have killed Zimmerman by dashing his head against the pavement.
If Martin caused Zimmerman to hit his head on the pavement, was it an accident, was it on purpose, and if it was on purpose, was it self-defense on Martin’s part?
 
If Martin caused Zimmerman to hit his head on the pavement, was it an accident, was it on purpose, and if it was on purpose, was it self-defense on Martin’s part?
No way to tell with the information we have available, I think. Too many conflicting accounts.
 
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