Trayvon Martin: 'Shoot first' law under scrutiny

  • Thread starter Thread starter Robert_Bay
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Here is a recently released video interview of Zimmerman’s father.

I won’t excerpt the written article. It’s just a rehash. But, the video interview reveals some new details.

One of the points made by his father is that George Zimmerman was going out to a Target store after he had made dinner for his family when the incident took place - a diaper run or a slick deal maybe? He has texted his sister about it before going out. It counters the assertion that GZ was patrolling around on neighborhood watch assuming the texting evidence has been retrieved by police.
 
I’m even more hesitant to make a definitive opinion since I last posted, as the week has progressed, except for how tragic and horrible this was and is becoming for everyone else. I will say, though, how sad it is that one does not see this kind of outrage and united calls to put an end to murder and crime in general, whether it’s black on black, white on white, etc.

My university was in the middle of a very dangerous area of the city and had its own private police department which was one of the best in the city, otherwise, I don’t think anyone would want to send their child to the school no matter how good of a reputation it has. Just a couple blocks away, the area was named “The Badlands” and we were warned not to venture down that way. Murder and other crime was occurring all the time around the campus. I had a real street education by attending university there because I volunteered in the community, mostly at the schools to which we had to have police escort because of how dangerous the area was, and then also doing volunteer work at hospices and getting to know some of the homeless who hung out around our dorms. Also, although crime was mostly kept off campus, you really couldn’t help but be touched by the area. (ie. witnessing a local man running for his life from a gang of other men holding baseball bats, run right in front of me and into my dorm for protection. Fortunately, the gang did not follow him in. One of the police men was there and escorted him out of the dorm. I don’t know what happened afterwards.) From speaking with the teachers and to the children at the school where I volunteered mostly, you learned that so many of them had little chances of a bright future. Those who did were the fortunate ones with luck, fortitude, strength of mind and at least one person on their side who was cheering him/her on.

I just wish that those who are making such a loud noise about the Martin/Zimmerman situation could do the same for all those children and young men/women who are trapped in a life very difficult to escape from and are witnessing crime and murders of their friends, siblings, peers, etc. all the time. Where is the outrage, anger, the calls for justice for these people? To me, it seems that because it is not beneficial for some who are leading these rallies or writing the news, nothing will be done. That is tragic in it of itself.

We had four students murdered off-campus during the time I attended university there. Three of them were white and one was black. The deaths of two white students were pretty much dismissed by many in the suburban communities as something unfortunate, but because they were out very late at night off campus when they were murdered, part of the blame was placed on them. ie. Their “stupidity” got them killed, no matter how innocent they were, whether it was going to the ATM or coming back to campus after a night out with friends in the safer part of the city. They should have known better, especially in that area, so they had no one to blame, but themselves. The other white student was automatically assumed that he “had” to have been out buying drugs in that area, so his “stupidity” and assumed drug use put him there, thus no major sympathy. There was no information that said this was the case. It was just assumed because of the area he was in and no white people ever went into that area, unless it was for drugs.

The black student was from the neighborhood, one of the fortunate ones who rose above the poverty and crime to try to better himself. He was apparently caught in the crossfire, gunned down on the steps of his church. It made news for a few days because he was a kid from the neighborhood trying to better himself, but no national outrage, no national calls for justice of those who murdered him, no anger over how an innocent 19/20-year-old kid, working hard to escape the cycle of crime and poverty, had his life snuffed out so easily. Where were the Sharptons and Jacksons making a public outcry? And where was the media?

Yes, I think what happened to a young man like Trayvon Martin is horribly sad and tragic, but it has been caught up in so much media hype that I really do think it has made it difficult for anyone on the outside viewing this to make a wise and rational opinion on what actually occurred, not that I don’t think a discussion is warranted. I can’t help but think that if this occurred in a poor neighborhood where he was held up and shot or even shot by a neighborhood watch person from that community who felt he was suspicious, it would not have received so much media coverage or outcry. It would just be considered another one of those unfortunate statistics of innocent people being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Honestly, to me, those who are in those poor, dangerous neighborhoods need more people being outraged about this. It shouldn’t matter what the color of the people involved were, which I think is what the media and certain vocal people are trying to turn the M/Z situation into. (I personally think the idea of a “hate” crime is a bit redundant. To me, all real crime is hateful.)

Ok, rant over. Time out for me for a while.
 
Right. **He was punched, not hit in the face with a crowbar. ** However, all things considered, it looks like shooting TM was excessive UNLESS Zimmerman and Martin were fighting for Zimmerman’s gun. From my understanding, the slide did not cycle, indicating that someone was holding the frame when the gun was discharged. If (big if) Martin was trying to get Zimmerman’s gun and Zimmerman got a shot off, then it is legitimate self-defense. Had Martin gotten the gun, this could be a story of “a black teenager who shot a hispanic man” and the whole narrative would be different.

Like I said, forensics experts, video experts, audio experts, etc… are going to pour over every detail in this case. You can be assured that every aspect of this case is going to be scrunitized to the nth degree.
Depending on which version of Zimmerman’s story you listen to, he wasn’t just punched in the face. According to one of the tales from his “friends” (and his “friends” have been so thoroughly discredited they really should sit down and not say anything else) Martin bashed Zimmerman’s head against the sidewalk. This would cause considerably more damage than a punch in the face. Also, he does not appear to have broken a sweat in that police video–odd for someone who supposedly was in a life or death struggle.
 
…The 6’3" “little boy” would have towered over Cutcher and I’m guessing from the looks of the twitter pics, he would have weighed a lot more than 140lbs. …
This is an awful case. It really disturbs me. I want the truth. I cannot find it. I see a lot of stirring, charges of racism, corruption. I don’t know what to believe. All I see is loss and destruction and damage to relationships (the families involved, the races, law enforcement and communities they serve, etc.) in this country because of this case.

Your words above bother me. They are true, but they still bother me.

I have a son who turned 14 in late January. He has always been a big boy, tall and husky and broad-shouldered, and because of that, he has frequently been mistaken for someone older than he is, sometimes for someone much older. Expectations are much higher for him because he is seen as older, sometimes even as an adult. He is a boy. Just a couple of months ago I bought him a few new t-shirts for casual wear. The cashier asked him if he needed new shirts for work. He was still 13 at the time. Now, at 14, he is about 6’2" tall and weighs about 275. He towers over me. He is bigger than his dad, so he may be 6’3" or more. He has cousins who are 6’5" and 6’6". I’ll find out his exact height and weight at his well-child appointment next week, which I normally schedule around his birthday, but delayed due to the time window required by his high school next year. He is man-sized, yet he is still a boy with the judgment and experience of a boy. But, the world expects more from him because of his size. When he was younger, I used to remind him of that. I always told him to be aware that if he got into trouble, he might be judged more harshly than a smaller child simply because of his size and others’ perceptions due to his perceived maturity. Also, I’ve told him to have a care about what he says and does in public because he might get into trouble with older kids or even adults too if they perceive him to be older than he is. Fortunately, he is a good boy and has never been in trouble, never even gotten into a fight. His teachers and others frequently comment positively about his courtesy and kindness.

But, I still worry about him because he is a boy in a man’s body.
 
You can start digging into my thinking process by answering why Sharpton, Jackson, S.Lee, Shelia Jackson and others on the senate floor are not inflamed about the 90% black on black crime the happens regularly. Some of that crime plays out the same as GZ vs. TM.

The point is, this is such high profile because GZ is half white and race was interjected. It goes on regularly with people of the same race with little or no attention.
 
"Police surveillance video of Zimmerman may show head injury

Surveillance video of George Zimmerman arriving at a Sanford, Fla. police station indicates what may be an injury to the back of his head, a Daily Caller analysis shows."…

Blue excerpt from: dailycaller.com/2012/03/29/police-surveillance-video-of-zimmerman-may-show-head-injury/

Just looking at the video, it doesn’t appear to me that Zimmerman has injuries that would have prompted him to use deadly force in return, but it does appear that he has a head injury AND he may have been in mortal danger if his account is true. What I don’t understand is where is blood? Shouldn’t Zimmerman’s shirt have blood on it somewhere? If his nose bled at all, there would be at least a bit of his own blood on it, right? I know bruising takes a bit of time to show up, but I see no blood. Also, it has been claimed that Martin was shot at close range with Zimmerman beneath him, right? So, wouldn’t Martin’s blood be all over Zimmerman? Or, would a hoodie contain Martin’s blood? Also, is it SOP to allow a change of clothes before going to the police station for questioning? I understand that medical attention, be it first aid or a trip to the ER as needed, would be rendered immediately, but would a change of clothes also be allowed?

Is is possible to just have the truth, please?!
 
"Police surveillance video of Zimmerman may show head injury

Surveillance video of George Zimmerman arriving at a Sanford, Fla. police station indicates what may be an injury to the back of his head, a Daily Caller analysis shows."…

Blue excerpt from: dailycaller.com/2012/03/29/police-surveillance-video-of-zimmerman-may-show-head-injury/

Just looking at the video, it doesn’t appear to me that Zimmerman has injuries that would have prompted him to use deadly force in return, but it does appear that he has a head injury AND he may have been in mortal danger if his account is true. What I don’t understand is where is blood? Shouldn’t Zimmerman’s shirt have blood on it somewhere? If his nose bled at all, there would be at least a bit of his own blood on it, right? I know bruising takes a bit of time to show up, but I see no blood. Also, it has been claimed that Martin was shot at close range with Zimmerman beneath him, right? So, wouldn’t Martin’s blood be all over Zimmerman? Or, would a hoodie contain Martin’s blood? Also, is it SOP to allow a change of clothes before going to the police station for questioning?

Is is possible to just have the truth, please?!
We just don;t have all the details yet. GZ may have had medical treatment as well. Or, he could be as guilty as sin.
 
Also, is it SOP to allow a change of clothes before going to the police station for questioning? I understand that medical attention, be it first aid or a trip to the ER as needed, would be rendered immediately, but would a change of clothes also be allowed?

Is is possible to just have the truth, please?!
It may not be that he was ALLOWED to change clothes, but MADE to change clothes. That would be if his clothes were taken into evidence. In the police statement, it does say that Zimmerman received medical attention at the scene. If he changed shirts, it may have happened then.
 
It may not be that he was ALLOWED to change clothes, but MADE to change clothes. That would be if his clothes were taken into evidence. In the police statement, it does say that Zimmerman received medical attention at the scene. If he changed shirts, it may have happened then.
That makes sense. Perhaps Zimmerman’s shirt is part of evidence that will help prove something one way or the other. If he is still alive at that point. The lynch mob mindset of some people has me worried that violence, and maybe widespread violence, is in our future.
 
We just don;t have all the details yet. GZ may have had medical treatment as well. Or, he could be as guilty as sin.
Sorry I missed your post. Do you think we will learn the truth at some point or will it be lost along the way, along with any hope of repair to the damage done to the nation by the media handling of this case?
 
Sorry I missed your post. Do you think we will learn the truth at some point or will it be lost along the way, along with any hope of repair to the damage done to the nation by the media handling of this case?
Was anyone else surprised by the fact the video exists and that it was turned over to a media outlet? For the longest time many people were under the impression that GZ was questioned at the scene and allowed to go home, now it appears he was taken into custody and grilled for 5 hours.

Did he have a lawyer present during questioning?
 
Cutcher’s statements are quite laughable if the consequences weren’t so serious. At the time she was making these statements, the Martins and the media were playing their son off as the prepubescent child mudered for being black and wearing a hoodie.
I, too, found Mary Cutcher’s statements rather “interesting”. She said she didn’t see the fight, she only went out after the gunshot.

She said it was a little boy crying - these are her exact words: a little boy. I was puzzled by the “little boy” comment, but you could be right Vincent - it looks like Mary Cutcher never got the memo that the “little boy” was 6’3" tall and 17 years old, almost 18. If her video testimony is 2 weeks old, from the period when the media were only showing this picture of a 12-year old angelic boy, it could very well be that she mentally associated the victim of the shooting with this 12-year old boy, and it never occurred to her that Trayvon Martin was no longer a “little boy”. This only goes to show how her mind has been playing games on her, and coloring her real memories by mixing them with false assumptions based on the media’s false and biased reporting. Mary Cutcher may be a well-meaning person, what she is doing may not be motivated by malice, but her testimony is surely ridiculous and unreliable. How can she be sure that the person crying for help was the “little boy” Trayvon Martin and not GZ, when in fact she didn’t see what was happening?

Next, Mary Cutcher goes on to say, “I firmly believe this was not self-defense”. Again, how does she know, given that she didn’t see what happened?
 
40.png
SwizzleStick:
This is an awful case. It really disturbs me. I want the truth. I cannot find it. I see a lot of stirring, charges of racism, corruption. I don’t know what to believe. All I see is loss and destruction and damage to relationships (the families involved, the races, law enforcement and communities they serve, etc.) in this country because of this case.

Your words above bother me. They are true, but they still bother me.

I have a son who turned 14 in late January. He has always been a big boy, tall and husky and broad-shouldered, and because of that, he has frequently been mistaken for someone older than he is, sometimes for someone much older. Expectations are much higher for him because he is seen as older, sometimes even as an adult. He is a boy. Just a couple of months ago I bought him a few new t-shirts for casual wear. The cashier asked him if he needed new shirts for work. He was still 13 at the time. Now, at 14, he is about 6’2" tall and weighs about 275. He towers over me. He is bigger than his dad, so he may be 6’3" or more. He has cousins who are 6’5" and 6’6". I’ll find out his exact height and weight at his well-child appointment next week, which I normally schedule around his birthday, but delayed due to the time window required by his high school next year. He is man-sized, yet he is still a boy with the judgment and experience of a boy. But, the world expects more from him because of his size. When he was younger, I used to remind him of that. I always told him to be aware that if he got into trouble, he might be judged more harshly than a smaller child simply because of his size and others’ perceptions due to his perceived maturity. Also, I’ve told him to have a care about what he says and does in public because he might get into trouble with older kids or even adults too if they perceive him to be older than he is. Fortunately, he is a good boy and has never been in trouble, never even gotten into a fight. His teachers and others frequently comment positively about his courtesy and kindness.

But, I still worry about him because he is a boy in a man’s body.
I hear you. I worry myself all the time and I’m supposed to be the father.

Here is something that works for me and it applies well in this case.

The saying goes: The wise man learns from his own mistakes. The smart man learns from other’s mistakes.

Say it with reason from the heart(you know what I mean?). It’s a powerful tool all good, wise, and smart parents have earned the right to use. Because. We. Care.
 
Was anyone else surprised by the fact the video exists and that it was turned over to a media outlet? For the longest time many people were under the impression that GZ was questioned at the scene and allowed to go home, now it appears he was taken into custody and grilled for 5 hours.

Did he have a lawyer present during questioning?
But now that the video has been released and shows GZ in handcuffs, MSNBC is changing the subject, telling us “Gee, he doesn’t really look beaten up. There’s no blood, no gaping wounds, no gore. The grass stains on his back are not visible to the camera.”

And people are falling again for MSNBC. 😦

As if the MSNBC folks were medical experts who medically examined GZ’s injuries. :mad:

People seem to not get it: bashing your head against the pavement can kill you. I had a friend who died like that. Bashing his head against the pavement (traffic accident) caused cerebral hemorrhage that wasn’t outwardly visible, yet it killed my friend who was 25 years old.
 
40.png
maryjk:
It may not be that he was ALLOWED to change clothes, but MADE to change clothes. That would be if his clothes were taken into evidence. In the police statement, it does say that Zimmerman received medical attention at the scene. If he changed shirts, it may have happened then.
He’s wearing a red jacket and jeans, the same clothes witnesses described him wearing at the scene. The truth is the family’s attorney is pulling a fast one and the MSN are playing dumb. SPD noted he was cleaned up before taken into custody.

But, here’s the thing to watch for in the video. Do you see the whites in their eyes.

Freeze the video. Can you make out their ears? How about the folds in their ears? If you can’t make out these features in the video how could could you make out GZ’s injuries when he’s been cleaned up?
 
Sorry I missed your post. Do you think we will learn the truth at some point or will it be lost along the way, along with any hope of repair to the damage done to the nation by the media handling of this case?
Personally I think it is lost already. Unless this eyewitness can give an additional perception of what happened it’s either believe Zimmerman or those who believe he was “hunted down” and shot for no reason other than he was black and wearing a hoodie.

Again this goes on with 90% black on black crime but there is little or no outrage.
 
L piperatus:
I, too, found Mary Cutcher’s statements rather “interesting”. She said she didn’t see the fight, she only went out after the gunshot.

She said it was a little boy crying - these are her exact words: a little boy. I was puzzled by the “little boy” comment, but you could be right Vincent - it looks like Mary Cutcher never got the memo that the “little boy” was 6’3" tall and 17 years old, almost 18. If her video testimony is 2 weeks old, from the period when the media were only showing this picture of a 12-year old angelic boy, it could very well be that she mentally associated the victim of the shooting with this 12-year old boy, and it never occurred to her that Trayvon Martin was no longer a “little boy”. This only goes to show how her mind has been playing games on her, and coloring her real memories by mixing them with false assumptions based on the media’s false and biased reporting. Mary Cutcher may be a well-meaning person, what she is doing may not be motivated by malice, but her testimony is surely ridiculous and unreliable. How can she be sure that the person crying for help was the “little boy” Trayvon Martin and not GZ, when in fact she didn’t see what was happening?

Next, Mary Cutcher goes on to say, “I firmly believe this was not self-defense”. Again, how does she know, given that she didn’t see what happened?
Pretty much! But, here’s something that’s been left out. Police maintain Cutcher’s media account contradicts her sworn affidavit. That is just another way to say that she has been lying. In turn, Cutcher has accused the police of witness intimidation. Now, the police have submitted their report to the DA and Sanford has been pretty straightforward confirming or media reports as they come. So, pardon me if I don’t believe Cutcher.
 
I think that the current statistic is that 80-90% (somewhere in that range) of all violent crimes against blacks are committed by other blacks.
 
If your unaware of the 90% black on black crime there is little more I can present to you. Not every one of those crimes are shootings but a strong percentage are. You’ll have to look into a crime data base to be informed as to the actual details of the cities. You can start with NY, they occur with some regularity. None of what I’m saying negates white on white shooting.
 
Do you think all the black people that are shot by others are criminals?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top