Trent Horn - Does it matter which Christian denomination you belong to?

[TonyBS]

You think papal supremacy is based upon one single line of Scripture? Wow.

I would say if Humanity could foresee the mighty Covenant intended within these words, as IMHO was indeed intended;

“And I say also unto you, That you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church”;

Then yes it would have been the ideal foundation stone to which it was for the Church. there would be no grounds to split.

But alas the want of man to have power over others, the intent of these words were lost to a great proportion of mankind. God bless the Covernant and its continued Line.

Regards Tony

 

[zz912]

I would say if Humanity could foresee the mighty Covenant intended within these words, as IMHO was indeed intended;

“And I say also unto you, That you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church”;

Then yes it would have been the ideal foundation stone to which it was for the Church. there would be no grounds to split.

But alas the want of man to have power over others, the intent of these words were lost to a great proportion of mankind. God bless the Covernant and its continued Line.

Regards Tony

Finish the verse. God is powerful enough to protect His Church, and does. Man and hell don’t have power to bring down the Church.

 

[steve_b]

I would say if Humanity could foresee the mighty Covenant intended within these words, as IMHO was indeed intended;

“And I say also unto you, That you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church”;

Then yes it would have been the ideal foundation stone to which it was for the Church. there would be no grounds to split.

But alas the want of man to have power over others, the intent of these words were lost to a great proportion of mankind. God bless the Covernant and its continued Line.

Regards Tony

Even when Jesus taught His disciples, face to face, most left Him because they wouldn’t obey Him or believe in Him.[61] , [65] ,

As a result Jesus tells us in advance, that few go to to heaven, ergo, the rest go to hell. That heads up should cause everyone to straighten out their life, fly right, and do exactly what he says… because the or/else is disastrous beyond comprehension…

Mt 7: 13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy,a] that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

that takes all speculation away from the oft heard hope coming from some, that everybody goes to heaven when they die.

 

[JMM1957]

Hi J’

Agree, a huge obstacle, even stumbling block for any Catholic and others to overcome. For sure then, anyone coming to see it the P way has to be a work of God.

Blessings

You think? Well, you may be right about one thing (the stumbling block), it certainly would be hard to figure how Jesus and the Apostles would teach about total unity of one mind and one faith, and then look at what has transpired since the Reformation. I think someone would be deceiving themselves if they didn’t acknowledge that the unity that Scripture speaks of is more at work in the CC.

 

[TonyBS]

Finish the verse. God is powerful enough to protect His Church, and does. Man and hell don’t have power to bring down the Church.

Yes God is the all Powerful and Doeth as He Willeth, what do you think brought down the Jewish nation? To me that was man not accepting God.

Also considering He is to make of them a Great Nation, what do you think was the Protection God Gave to the Jews?

Regards Tony

 

[TonyBS]

Even when Jesus taught His disciples, face to face, most left Him because they wouldn’t obey Him or believe in Him.[61] , [65] ,

As a result Jesus tells us in advance, that few go to to heaven, ergo, the rest go to hell. That heads up should cause everyone to straighten out their life, fly right, and do exactly what he says… because the or/else is disastrous beyond comprehension…

Mt 7: 13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy,a] that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

that takes all speculation away from the oft heard hope coming from some, that everybody goes to heaven when they die.

Yes Steve - The evidence is put in front of us and we are asked to choose.

In my opinion I would be dead now if I did not Know and Love Christ and accept that he died for our Sins. My hope is, God Willing, that I will indeed pass from this life with that Knowledge.

To me Heaven is Nearness to Christ, Hell is to be remote, thus to not have Christ now would be Hell already. What is this life if it is not Love and Service to Christ?

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[eazyduzit]

Yes Steve - The evidence is put in front of us and we are asked to choose.

In my opinion I would be dead now if I did not Know and Love Christ and accept that he died for our Sins. My hope is, God Willing, that I will indeed pass from this life with that Knowledge.

To me Heaven is Nearness to Christ, Hell is to be remote, thus to not have Christ now would be Hell already. What is this life if it is not Love and Service to Christ?

God Bless and Regards Tony

Yes, heaven is where Jesus is, but it is also a real place, more real than this transitory world. It is God’s world and thus it is a place of much more. Some houses are the size of a city.
However their are certain qualifications to enter.

 

[rcwitness]

Do you mean baptized into His body , the Bride, the Ecclesia?

Baptism does incorporate us into Jesus, but in my context I was referring to Communion in His body. And more specifically, one Communion.

I’m sure you have gotten the impression from me, that I have a strong regard for only one Eucharist. You may agree with that, in your perspective, but you also probably know what I mean. I believe a proper Eucharist is offered through a united body of believers. This inevitably assumes unity of and under ordained leadership. So to say we all have the same Eucharist is certainly not true, even because He has not brought us all under one leadership, one mind, or one judgment.

So, if we are to build up the body, it is most effective to do so from being unified with the body. This way you have a participation in Him in order to influence other members in Him.

 

[steve_b]

Yes Steve - The evidence is put in front of us and we are asked to choose.

In my opinion I would be dead now if I did not Know and Love Christ and accept that he died for our Sins. My hope is, God Willing, that I will indeed pass from this life with that Knowledge.

To me Heaven is Nearness to Christ, Hell is to be remote, thus to not have Christ now would be Hell already. What is this life if it is not Love and Service to Christ?

God Bless and Regards Tony

I would just add

Jesus qualifies love for Him. John 14:15

Or as Mary His mother says, John 2:5

Your heart is in the right place Tony. Make it complete. Come home to His Church. THEN you will be able to fulfill those 2 passages

 

[TonyBS]

I would just add

Jesus qualifies love for Him. John 14:15

Or as Mary His mother says, John 2:5

Your heart is in the right place Tony. Make it complete. Come home to His Church. THEN you will be able to fulfill those 2 passages

Dear Steve, thanks for the reply - I would consider only God knows each of our hearts

Lets try an answer using just a few bible quotes, not necessarily in context, but an answer all the same

John 14:2 “In my Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you”?

Psalm 23:6 “Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life, and I shall dwell in the house of the Lord forever”.

2 Corinthians 5:1 “For we know that if the tent that is our earthly home is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens”.

God bless and regards Tony

 

[TonyBS]

Yes, heaven is where Jesus is, but it is also a real place, more real than this transitory world. It is God’s world and thus it is a place of much more. Some houses are the size of a city. However their are certain qualifications to enter.

Yes we have free will to obtain all the virtues in our lives, if I may, I would like to share from the Baha’i Writings this interesting thought as to how we can understand the Words of Jesus;

“The understanding of His words and the comprehension of the utterances of the Birds of Heaven are in no wise dependent upon human learning. They depend solely upon purity of heart, chastity of soul, and freedom of spirit”. reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/KI/ki-7.html

God Bless all and Regards Tony

 

[outremer]

I would like this question even posed to all local priests and bishops. I’d be interested in hearing what our modern shepherds think.

 

[steve_b]

Dear Steve, thanks for the reply - I would consider only God knows each of our hearts

Lets try an answer using just a few bible quotes, not necessarily in context, but an answer all the same

John 14:2 “In my Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you”?

Psalm 23:6 “Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life, and I shall dwell in the house of the Lord forever”.

2 Corinthians 5:1 “For we know that if the tent that is our earthly home is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens”.

God bless and regards Tony

Tony

With all due respect, the OT quote is looking forward to the NT fulfillment of the OT in the NT. Considering the NT quotes from Jesus and Paul, they are both talking directly to those already IN the only Church Jesus says He will build. Those are the people with those promises. How do those quotes then, give an answer for anyone after the fact, who are not “in” as in those outside the only Church Jesus established?

 

[benhur]

You think? Well, you may be right about one thing (the stumbling block), it certainly would be hard to figure how Jesus and the Apostles would teach about total unity of one mind and one faith, and then look at what has transpired since the Reformation. I think someone would be deceiving themselves if they didn’t acknowledge that the unity that Scripture speaks of is more at work in the CC.

Hi J,

Agree to the stumbling block. Agree also to unity of CC thru out the ages. Just not sure that it is exactly how scripture speaks of it or maybe that it goes beyond what CC teaches.

At any rate, we both see stumbling blocks in each others churches. And a bit like the scripture that says, " let every man be called a liar for only God is true", leaving the only hopeful true and pure attraction to be Christ himself.

Blessings

 

[benhur]

Baptism does incorporate us into Jesus, but in my context I was referring to Communion in His body. And more specifically, one Communion.

I’m sure you have gotten the impression from me, that I have a strong regard for only one Eucharist. You may agree with that, in your perspective, but you also probably know what I mean. I believe a proper Eucharist is offered through a united body of believers. This inevitably assumes unity of and under ordained leadership. So to say we all have the same Eucharist is certainly not true, even because He has not brought us all under one leadership, one mind, or one judgment.

So, if we are to build up the body, it is most effective to do so from being unified with the body. This way you have a participation in Him in order to influence other members in Him.

Hi rc,

Yes, you have a strong regard, passion, in this matter. I also agree the CC Eucharist is tied into ordained priesthood and leadership and to keep oneness in her.

Blessings

 

[TonyBS]

Tony

With all due respect, the OT quote is looking forward to the NT fulfillment of the OT in the NT. Considering the NT quotes from Jesus and Paul, they are both talking directly to those already IN the only Church Jesus says He will build. Those are the people with those promises. How do those quotes then, give an answer for anyone after the fact, who are not “in” as in those outside the only Church Jesus established?

Dear Steve - To me Christ has shown it is timeless by comments such as the First and the Last the Beginning and the End.

There is a Religious tradition that says I was with 1000 Adams and the duration between each Adam was 50,000 Years.

Thus to me No scripture becomes invalid because of its position in time. I think in a lot of cases you would agree with this observation

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[steve_b]

Dear Steve - To me Christ has shown it is timeless by comments such as the First and the Last the Beginning and the End.

There is a Religious tradition that says I was with 1000 Adams and the duration between each Adam was 50,000 Years.

I’ve not heard that tradition. What is the source?
TB:

Thus to me No scripture becomes invalid because of its position in time.

With regards to the OT, it’s not invalid it’s just not complete. If it was complete, there would be no need for the New and everlasting covenant.

 

[TonyBS]

I’ve not heard that tradition. What is the source?

The source is a Muslim Tradition quoted by Baha’u’llah

"Likewise, strive thou to comprehend the meaning of the melody of that eternal beauty, Ḥusayn, son of ‘Alí, who, addressing Salmán, spoke words such as these: “I was with a thousand Adams, the interval between each and the next Adam was fifty thousand years, and to each one of these I declared the Successorship conferred upon my father.” He then recounteth certain details, until he saith: “I have fought one thousand battles in the path of God, the least and most insignificant of which was like the battle of Khaybar, in which battle my father fought and contended against the infidels.” Endeavour now to apprehend from these two traditions the mysteries of “end,” “return,” and “creation without beginning or end.” reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/KI/ki-6.html

Other sources have larger time scales

Seventy thousand years after completing the universe, God created a human being called Adam, but not the Adam of our ancestors. He was the first Adam who lived on the earthly world long before the Adam of our ancestors was born. This earlier Adam gave rise to descendants but all were vanished; the last descendant died 10,000 years after the first Adam was born. God then created another Adam, but, again, he and his descendants vanished after 10,000 years. This was repeated again and again until 10,000 Adams had been created (the last one, the ten thousandth, was the Adam of our ancestors). It is unclear whether they lived here on our earth, or somewhere else. Supposing they really did live on this earth, it follows that since there had been 10,000 Adams (each Adam and his descendants lasting ten thousand years), our earth, according to this myth, has already been in existence for about 100,000 million years; whereas, the history of mankind since (our) Adam has been less than 10,000 years press.anu.edu.au/islamic/itc/mobile_devices/ch03s02.html

Regards Tony

 

[Smfm]

Anyway, hello, bet your all glad to see me again, the Catholic Church isn’t a denomination, it never broke away from Jesus, so you better ask those that did.

 

[Smfm]

In my view, it matters that a Christian denomination have the following characteristics, among others:

.

It wouldn’t be a denomination if it hadn’t broke away from the True Church, therefore denominations are false.