Tridentine Solemn High Mass

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misericordie:
Here is a good example of modernism, and irreverance: http://www.traditio.com/comment/com0306e.jpg
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Ummmmm, frmetrad, this is NOT what is sopposed to be done after a Novus Ordo mass. Hence, No, i am not judgemental, but realistic.
 
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FrmrTrad:
As the apostle writes, for I hope that I shall be with you, and speak face to face: that your joy may be full (2 John 1:12). Is it possible that you are being judgmental? Is it possible that you are judging something that need not concern you? When I wanted ‘out’ of the ‘novus ordo’, a picture such as that one would have exacerbated my wish to perceive problems. When instead I calmly evaluated the nature of the Church and her rites (and her rights), I realized I was wrong to think the Pauline rite was harmful. Of course, we may attend the Tridentine rites. My observation is that there is a great risk of schism within that community. The tendency to want to judge the Pauline rite is very high, and to condemn “novus ordinarians” along with it. Erroneous ecclesiology follows hard thereupon, and the Catholic becomes a schismatic if he fails to check himself. Be careful that your preference for a rite does not lead to judgmentalism, schism, and erroneous ecclesiology.
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is this being judgemental too? No it’s what’s happening sad to say in many “masses”: http://www.traditio.com/comment/com0406y.jpg
 
At the High Mass every Sunday in the OLD DAYS, there was the Asperges Me before Mass. This was replaced by the Vidi Aquam (Sprinkle me with Hysop the former, I have seen the water flowing from the right side of the Temple, meaning Jesus,the latter) during Paschaltide. I miss them.
I miss so much that the Novus whatever leaves out the Sequences of the special days, such as Pentecost, Easter, etc.They just always omit them.Never, ever had the majesty of the Latin. I grew up with a mother who was a liturgist, who had a schola of boychoir members, and who safeguarded the liturgy. Maybe it is just human emotion, but somehow after years of acceding to the Novus thingie, I feel the tradition and the beauty, the majesty and the awe are lost.
It is a bone of contention with me that people say that the congregations did not know what was going on because of the Latin. Baloney! Sure we did. Even if we did not take high school Latin, we had missals with English on one side, and we grew up with it. We knew. I see the congregations now, and the droning repetition of the prayers of the liturgy in English are just banal. Most could not tell you what they are.
Down here in South Florida there is NO tridentine Mass offered. The closest one is NOT close, and is a “Low Mass.” The music has been diluted down for the Novus thingie(sorry, I just don’t like calling it the New Order) in an effort to attract people. In so doing, it has, instead of elevating the congregation, dumbed them down.
I envy those of you who are able to attend Tridentine Masses well done. Strange. In my youth, no one ever had to say Tridentine Mass.
Guess I need a attitude adjustment in my old age.
Something else: Catholic schools have watered down the teaching of the faith to values. Really. Children have no clue about doctrine and dogma, or liturgy. They cannot tell you any stories from EITHER testament. They cannot tell you the meaning of the liturgical seasons. I see so many gravitating to the fundamentalists, or dropping out altogether. It is tragic.
 
Speaking without AUTHORITY → I think the Admin wants you to post links to images instead of images themselves. Large images eat up server space and cause problems loading pages if one is using dial up.

Please do the Christian thing and only post links to large images.

Also, I think this is an important thread and I don’t want it locked.
 
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OrthoCath:
Speaking without AUTHORITY → I think the Admin wants you to post links to images instead of images themselves. Large images eat up server space and cause problems loading pages if one is using dial up.

Please do the Christian thing and only post links to large images.

Also, I think this is an important thread and I don’t want it locked.
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Okay, will do.
 
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lauriedbluw:
#83. At the High Mass every Sunday in the OLD DAYS, …
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See my Signature… Your post is the living example…of how well it works.
 
Podo,

You Obviously don’t know anything about the Catholic faith. Facing East is an ancient practice that is followed by many rites of the Church.
 
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bear06:
Yes. Why must such extreme arguments always be used in this debate?
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I have a theory about this, tangentially. The theory is probably wrong, but here it is. It may be that “traditionalists” disproportionately include people who are somewhat cranky. I don’t mean offense, truly. I count myself among them. Not cranks, but cranky. People who care a bit more about ideas than other people do. Perhaps people who are a bit too sensitive. These people become disporportionately offended at the changing of the rite. Or, they are among those least well served by the especially poor way the rite is carried out where they happen to live. So, cranky people go out looking for arguments and reasons, and ways out of what they see as a trap. They are irascible. There’s an easy way to recover: just realize, in faith, that the rites approved by the Church cannot fail to conduce to piety and cannot contain error. That re-squares the issues “infallibly”. But while a person is cranky, they may see anything incorrectly. Take the photos often passed about, mostly from the same archive(s). The one, above, of the teenagers, is not even a mass, but is compared to a view of the priests at the Tridentine rite: this is an irrational comparison without substance. Or the pictures of masses held in diverse locations: on a jeep hood, on a canoe, in a backyard: what of it? I would simply be grateful, if it were me at those masses, that Our Lord was coming to me in that place. Of the millions of masses celebrated yearly, only a tiny handful are in unusual locations. When a cranky person is in the process of being cranky, he doesn’t want to evaluate things rationally. He draws irrational comparisons that he thinks fit a pattern he has decided is applicable.

The interrupt to all that is: The rites approved by the Church are infallibly orthodox, avail unto salvation, and require your attendance.

We may assist at the Tridentine rite of mass, but what I have noticed is that there is an overwhelming tendency to want to judge the Pauline rite adversely, “novus ordinarians” afterwards, and finally to lapse into an erroneous ecclesiology. This is the path you are treading. It leads to a lack of charity, coarseness, a bunker mentality, the heresy of “traditionalism” in which people refuse to accept the Church’s magisterium, and to unnecessary divisions in the body of Christ.
 
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Podo2004:
The Tridentine mass??? That is not THE MASS… the novus ordo is THE MASS.
Heh their backs are turned to the congregation…how irreverant…
Podo
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Tell that to the Pope’s right hand man, who is the one in the picture Offering the Mass: Cardinal Dario Castrillon Hoyos. Are you saying that saints such as Saint Ignatius of Loyola, St. Therese, Margaret Mary, St. Vincent de Paul etc. etc. etc. attended a “rude” mass whic faced GOD instead of the people? Your commennts are so funny, I had to call members of my family and friends to read it, smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_72.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_213.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_102.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_200.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_22.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_22.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_24.gif
 
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FrmrTrad:
I have a theory about this, tangentially. The theory is probably wrong, but here it is. It may be that “traditionalists” disproportionately include people who are somewhat cranky. I don’t mean offense, truly. I count myself among them. Not cranks, but cranky. People who care a bit more about ideas than other people do. Perhaps people who are a bit too sensitive. These people become disporportionately offended at the changing of the rite. Or, they are among those least well served by the especially poor way the rite is carried out where they happen to live. So, cranky people go out looking for arguments and reasons, and ways out of what they see as a trap. They are irascible. There’s an easy way to recover: just realize, in faith, that the rites approved by the Church cannot fail to conduce to piety and cannot contain error. That re-squares the issues “infallibly”. But while a person is cranky, they may see anything incorrectly. Take the photos often passed about, mostly from the same archive(s). The one, above, of the teenagers, is not even a mass, but is compared to a view of the priests at the Tridentine rite: this is an irrational comparison without substance. Or the pictures of masses held in diverse locations: on a jeep hood, on a canoe, in a backyard: what of it? I would simply be grateful, if it were me at those masses, that Our Lord was coming to me in that place. Of the millions of masses celebrated yearly, only a tiny handful are in unusual locations. When a cranky person is in the process of being cranky, he doesn’t want to evaluate things rationally. He draws irrational comparisons that he thinks fit a pattern he has decided is applicable.

The interrupt to all that is: The rites approved by the Church are infallibly orthodox, avail unto salvation, and require your attendance.

We may assist at the Tridentine rite of mass, but what I have noticed is that there is an overwhelming tendency to want to judge the Pauline rite adversely, “novus ordinarians” afterwards, and finally to lapse into an erroneous ecclesiology. This is the path you are treading. It leads to a lack of charity, coarseness, a bunker mentality, the heresy of “traditionalism” in which people refuse to accept the Church’s magisterium, and to unnecessary divisions in the body of Christ.
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This one is one of my favorites, blessings to all:http://www.traditio.com/comment/com0312h.jpg
 
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lauriedbluw:
I miss so much that the Novus whatever leaves out
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I agree that the Pauline rite can be celebrated more completely than it sometimes is. But it is partly our fault: those of us who want more reverence choose the uncharitable approach of walking away, or yelling. Many devout Catholics have become separatist, clinging to a bizzare ecclesiology by which they can imagine to themselves that they are still “in union”. Admittedly many bishops perpetrated changes and things that were offensive to the faithful. But here’s a thought question: How did so many bishops come to be eager to make changes, and so many faithful to be unable to stop it? How strong were the faithful then? I think the standard traditionalist arguments are quite weak–and even the traditionalist literature reaches back decades to find more detailed answers. But no answer that is an affront to the magisterium could ever be plausible. I think priests sometimes omit portions that are available because the faithful aren’t praying hard enough and often enough. We all need each other. We are a royal priesthood, a purchased people, and I think we need to be more charitable within the Church rather than bolt outside. In other threads we can see charitable plans to talk to clergy about RS, for example.
I see the congregations now, and the droning repetition of the prayers of the liturgy in English are just banal.
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This will make me very popular, but said in a humdrum way the Tridentine prayers are banal too. Any repetitive experience will grate on a person: the point is catechesis, to know what the mass is. This makes all the difference in either case. When the Tridentine liturgy was normative in the west, it was sometimes very boring and not much of an experience. There is much self-selection at that liturgy presently.
In my youth, no one ever had to say Tridentine Mass. Guess I need a attitude adjustment in my old age.
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That liturgy was codified at about that time, and now in juxtaposition with the Pauline rite, it is often called “Tridentine”.
 
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FrmrTrad:
I agree that the Pauline rite can be celebrated more completely than it sometimes is. But it is partly our fault: those of us who want more reverence choose the uncharitable approach of walking away, or yelling. Many devout Catholics have become separatist, clinging to a bizzare ecclesiology by which they can imagine to themselves that they are still “in union”. Admittedly many bishops perpetrated changes and things that were offensive to the faithful. But here’s a thought question: How did so many bishops come to be eager to make changes, and so many faithful to be unable to stop it? How strong were the faithful then? I think the standard traditionalist arguments are quite weak–and even the traditionalist literature reaches back decades to find more detailed answers. But no answer that is an affront to the magisterium could ever be plausible. I think priests sometimes omit portions that are available because the faithful aren’t praying hard enough and often enough. We all need each other. We are a royal priesthood, a purchased people, and I think we need to be more charitable within the Church rather than bolt outside. In other threads we can see charitable plans to talk to clergy about RS, for example.This will make me very popular, but said in a humdrum way the Tridentine prayers are banal too. Any repetitive experience will grate on a person: the point is catechesis, to know what the mass is. This makes all the difference in either case. When the Tridentine liturgy was normative in the west, it was sometimes very boring and not much of an experience. There is much self-selection at that liturgy presently.That liturgy was codified at about that time, and now in juxtaposition with the Pauline rite, it is often called “Tridentine”.
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No, All Catholics know better: The traditionalist argument is NOT old and weak: in fact news has it that soon(a friend of mine in rome tells me) the POPE Himself will give the RIGHT to all priests whenever and whenever to offer the Tridentine Latin Mass. By the way: Motu Propio ecclesia dei is not hundreds of years old, non, no, 1988: UNDER THIS POPE. www.ecclesiadei.org
 
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misericordie:
Tell that to the Pope’s right hand man, who is the one in the picture Offering the Mass: Cardinal Dario Castrillon Hoyos. Are you saying that saints such as Saint Ignatius of Loyola, St. Therese, Margaret Mary, St. Vincent de Paul etc. etc. etc. attended a “rude” mass whic faced GOD instead of the people? Your commennts are so funny, I had to call members of my family and friends to read it, smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_72.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_213.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_102.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_200.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_22.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_22.gif smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_24.gif
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hahaha i’m glad i made you laugh! And anyways they were before vatican II im sure they would have been up to change unlike so many people like you who live in the past. The priest is supposed to face the people.
You are so funny too:rotfl: Facing God instead of the people:rotfl: In case you haven’t noticed, God is present EVERYWHERE! so if the priest faces the congregation he’s facing God. He’s not just present were that priest is looking.
(calms down) You guys can be so funny some times… ok i better not kill myself now:rotfl:
Podo:rotfl:
 
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OrthoCath:
Podo,

You Obviously don’t know anything about the Catholic faith. Facing East is an ancient practice that is followed by many rites of the Church.
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heh like i said before you guys are so funny…well in the NEW mass they don’t face east they face the congregation. The way it should be done. They changed it.
I know alot about the catholic faith because i read and study alot, that’s why is don’t rely on this site to get me all the answers, i come to discuss and of course get rude comments all the time.(sigh)
Podo
 
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