Trump abolishes controversial commission studying voter fraud

[niceatheist]

Boatswain2PA:

I do not want everyone to vote.

I want responsible people to vote. There is nothing racist about that, I see plenty of people of all skin colors who are irresponsible.

Bold to take an anti-democratic position on a Catholic forum.

At least he’s honest.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

But then we get to the point where if the state intentionally limits the ability to get that ID, we have voter suppression. It almost seems like you are backhandedly trying to justify voter suppression.

The states could try that, and at that point I would be working with you to reduce those limits. I’m guessing that you would not do the same thing for me when states intentionally try to limit my ability to exercise my 2nd amendment rights.

There is nothing that says that the exercise of our freedoms must be FREE of cost. The government doesn’t pay for our newspaper subscriptions so that we can exercise our first amendment rights without any cost to ourselves. The government doesn’t pay for us all to have firearms so that we can exercise our 2nd amendment rights without any cost to ourselves.

Wanna vote? Prove you are who you say you are and are an eligible voter. Best way to do that is through an ID.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

Bold to take an anti-democratic position on a Catholic forum.

I’m not a democrat, because democracies are terrible. Two lions and a zebra deciding what to eat for lunch…terrible idea.

That’s why the United States has been the greatest force for GOOD of any nation in the history of the planet…because we were a constitutional REPUBLIC.

Lmachine, of course, disagrees with that, and wants America weakened.

 

[niceatheist]

Then make voter IDs free and easy to obtain, otherwise it’s just little more than a bit of an attempt to masquerade voter suppression.

 

[dvdjs]

No, the was the # of convictions. At least that is what you posted earlier

I reviewed my posts but cannot find the post that supports this claim.
How about a quote or post #?

 

[lmachine]

I’m not a democrat, because democracies are terrible.

Like I said, bold.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

Then make voter IDs free and easy to obtain, otherwise it’s just little more than a bit of an attempt to masquerade voter suppression.

Should we make the freedom to exercise ALL of our rights absolutely free of cost to our citizens?

Why just voting??

They already are easy to obtain, and very low cost.

 

[lmachine]

What qualifies as “very low cost” to you? What’s the maximum amount of time and money it would take to obtain identification that you would find reasonable to expect of people?

 

[niceatheist]

niceatheist:

Then make voter IDs free and easy to obtain, otherwise it’s just little more than a bit of an attempt to masquerade voter suppression.

Should we make the freedom to exercise ALL of our rights absolutely free of cost to our citizens?

Why just voting??

They already are easy to obtain, and very low cost.

But clearly they’re not, and clearly being able to remove the availability of voter ID in minority areas is used as a form of voter suppression, so by making them universally available, you remove that ability to suppress the vote.

And every other aspect of voting is free to the voter, so why is it you feel it so important for voter ID to be charged a fee. By that logic, do you think you should be charged a fee at the polling station, you know, to make sure you’re a “responsible voter”.

But if that’s too much, I’ll ask you, what’s your solution to voter suppression?

Here’s how we deal with voter ID in Canada, at least in Federal elections (and it’s pretty similar in provincial elections here in British Columbia at least):

ID to Vote

---

www.elections.ca

That’s right. We let people register right at the polls, and if they have no ID or other suitable documentation, so long as someone else is there who can attest to your identity and address, you can swear an oath.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

And every other aspect of voting is free to the voter, so why is it you feel it so important for voter ID to be charged a fee

It’s not important to me for voter ID, or state ID, to be charged a fee. That should be up to the state. If NY or CA wants to pay for them, fine by me.

I would be fine with someone swearing to your identity…as long as THAT person is identified. That way there is someone who could be found, investigated, and if appropriate prosecuted for violating the law.

 

[niceatheist]

niceatheist:

And every other aspect of voting is free to the voter, so why is it you feel it so important for voter ID to be charged a fee

It’s not important to me for voter ID, or state ID, to be charged a fee. That should be up to the state. If NY or CA wants to pay for them, fine by me.

I would be fine with someone swearing to your identity…as long as THAT person is identified. That way there is someone who could be found, investigated, and if appropriate prosecuted for violating the law.

I believe the procedure is generally that the person attesting to your identity does indeed have the ID required by Elections Canada.

I can’t speak to every province, but here in BC, save perhaps for people one welfare or First Nations (that’s American Indians to you folks down south), photo ID does actually cost money, so for most folks no free ID, but the system is set up so that the definition of valid ID is broader, and finally, so long as someone is willing to affirm you are who you say you are, and you take an oath (which means, of course, if you’re caught lying about your identity, you can find yourself in court), you get to vote.

Well, okay, so that clears things up. Unfortunately a number of states have taken the suppression course, closing DMVs in minority dominant areas, making ID harder to obtain for those who do not have easy transportation. Sadly, there seems no immediate end to this abuse, though perhaps the equally egregious gerrymandering might finally be put to bed.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

Unfortunately a number of states have taken the suppression course, closing DMVs in minority dominant areas, making ID harder to obtain for those who do not have easy transportation. Sadly, there seems no immediate end to this abuse, though perhaps the equally egregious gerrymandering might finally be put to bed.

Im not entirely sold on this. While open to the idea that there may be some truth that racism may be some of the motive for moving DMVs and such, there is likely much more to the story…yet the “racism” story makes headlines so it is propagated.

Since most minorities live in cities, and most cities have public transportation, seems like it shouldn’t be a problem. A greater problem likely exists in rural America (mostly caucasion) where people may have to travel moderate (or great) distances to get IDs.

I had a 23 yo in my very rural ED recently who had no ID. Lost it a year ago and hasn’t been able to get to the dmv. But I certainly wouldn’t encourage this kid to vote!

 

[Axsenex]

Voter Id failed in North Carolina so that’s why I don’t care about it.

 

[angel12]

Im not entirely sold on this. While open to the idea that there may be some truth that racism may be some of the motive for moving DMVs and such, there is likely much more to the story…yet the “racism” story makes headlines so it is propagated.

Google the North Carolina case, where their attempts at voter suppression were tossed out in 2016. The lawmakers asked for data on voting patterns by race. The data showed, for example, that black voters were the most likely to use the first week of early voting. Guess what early voting period they tried to eliminate? The state even, in it’s attempt to justify the law, pointed out that black voters were the most likely to vote on Sundays – and Sunday voting was also eliminated.
I’m still not sure whether the racist component was larger than the stupid component, or vice versa.

 

[JonNC]

lmachine:

Boatswain2PA:

I do not want everyone to vote.

I want responsible people to vote. There is nothing racist about that, I see plenty of people of all skin colors who are irresponsible.

Bold to take an anti-democratic position on a Catholic forum.

At least he’s honest.

He didn’t say he wanted to prevent people from voting. That’s a Democratic Party gig from years ago.
He said he doesn’t want some people to vote. I don’t agree. I want everyone to be an informed voter. I want them to know what the constitution actually says.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

I have read about that, and it’s disturbing.

Unfortunately I often find myself in a position where the only information on these type of things come from extremely left-ward biased reporting. It doesn’t mean that they are wrong, but it often means the message is spun through the story.

I look forward to living in a time where nobody cares any longer about “patterns by race” (other than in medicine, where actual genetic differences can lead to significantly different risk patterns).

 

[niceatheist]

I have read about that, and it’s disturbing.

Unfortunately I often find myself in a position where the only information on these type of things come from extremely left-ward biased reporting. It doesn’t mean that they are wrong, but it often means the message is spun through the story.

How is it you spin a story where it is pretty much confirmed that they were going out of there way to inconvenience minority voters? I guess there could be other explanations, possibly extreme stupidity on the part of state officials, but whether intentional or unintentional, it was voter suppression.

I look forward to living in a time where nobody cares any longer about “patterns by race” (other than in medicine, where actual genetic differences can lead to significantly different risk patterns).

As do most of us. But until that day, minorities and other groups (gerrymandering and similar practices are hardly limited to just Republicans) should have expectation of equality before the law, and that some level of government is going to protect them unintentional or unintentional abuse when it comes to voting. As the Alabama special senate election showed, minorities can make a significant difference when motivated.

 

[Axsenex]

It’s true & it’s not even considered viable democracy anymore in the state. It’s full of corrupt politicians looking out for themselves & eat dinner with fat cats.

 

[Boatswain2PA]

How is it you spin a story where it is pretty much confirmed that they were going out of there way to inconvenience minority voters?

By creating causation when there is only association media can equate the “asking for racial voting records” with “shutting down early votes”.

Was it causal? Certainly looks suspicious, but was it? I dunno.

 

[niceatheist]

niceatheist:

How is it you spin a story where it is pretty much confirmed that they were going out of there way to inconvenience minority voters?

By creating causation when there is only association media can equate the “asking for racial voting records” with “shutting down early votes”.

Was it causal? Certainly looks suspicious, but was it? I dunno.

And I say, does it matter whether the intent was there to suppress the minority vote, or it was just a side-effect of wanton stupidity? In either case, it was wrong, and it needed to be stopped.