Trump calls out Biden on religion

[HomeschoolDad]

HomeschoolDad:

As I said, he needs experts to help him with this. Maybe a little one-on-one with Archbishop Vigano via Skype? I would say Father Frank Pavone, but lately, he’s been ordered not to do political consulting anymore, and being the obedient priest he should be, he’s ceased doing that. There are others. If I were a bishop, and had a priest who could help Trump, I’d say go ahead, keep it on the down low, just educate the man and get him up to speed. Doesn’t have to be some big production, again, there is Skype, FaceTime, and similar programs, both for discretion and for social distancing.

Its Trump man. No amount of tutoring from anyone is going to change him. And quite frankly, if you really want to look at how it should work, he should be a member of a local parish, under the leadership of a local pastor or chaplain. The unfortunate thing is that his chaplain is a whacko whose Christianity is suspect to begin with (Paula White). So, it just ain’t gonna happen. Let him stick to his strong points, he has defended the Constitution, which is his job description anyway.

Not to “change” him, just to give him strong talking points on the matter of abortion, and how to illustrate the inconsistency between Catholic politicians who favor abortion choice, and the Church’s teaching on the issue. He could quote the Popes’ teaching if nothing else.

 

[Hodos]

Not to “change” him, just to give him strong talking points on the matter of abortion, and how to illustrate the inconsistency between Catholic politicians who favor abortion choice, and the Church’s teaching on the issue. He could quote the Popes’ teaching if nothing else.

He already has strong talking points. Go back to his state of the Union Address, or his Mount Rushmore Address. He is defending the unborn within the bounds of current US law.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

HomeschoolDad:

Not to “change” him, just to give him strong talking points on the matter of abortion, and how to illustrate the inconsistency between Catholic politicians who favor abortion choice, and the Church’s teaching on the issue. He could quote the Popes’ teaching if nothing else.

He already has strong talking points. Go back to his state of the Union Address, or his Mount Rushmore Address. He is defending the unborn within the bounds of current US law.

Yes, he does a good job, I just wouldn’t want Biden to hit back with the kind of “cannot impose my morality” gobbledygook that the Kennedys were taught, and taught very well, when the whole question of public service versus Church teaching on abortion became an issue, and have Trump have no idea how to counter that.

Catholics were taught a lot of “shortcuts” back in those days, by those who were divinely charged to teach “the truth no matter what”, and failed to do so. I have first-hand experience with this:

The mentality of "you can never go wrong with a priest" Traditional Catholicism

I am not “harrumpfing loudly” from a “chair of self-righteousness”, not that you suggested I was. I was not “taught correctly”. When I was coming into the Church, my priest-catechist dissented from Humanae vitae, his exact words were “the Prince of Rome is wrong”. He did not speak explicitly of “conscience”. I thought “it makes absolutely no sense to have an authoritative teaching Church, only to be able to disagree with it”, but I was very young, this was all new to me, so I just thought “…

 

[pnewton]

President Trump, Jesus just called. He wants his judgement throne back. I honestly cannot believe even Trump, of all people went “there”. If there was ever a case of having to remove the beam in one’s eye…
WOW!

The greatest danger to Christianity is, as it has been, the hypocrisy of those that will wave the Bible, then hate the neighbor, or slip off to secret indiscretions.

 

[Hodos]

Yes, he does a good job, I just wouldn’t want Biden to hit back with the kind of “cannot impose my morality” gobbledygook that the Kennedys were taught, and taught very well, when the whole question of public service versus Church teaching on abortion became an issue, and have Trump have no idea how to counter that.

I understand that concern. That is why I made the suggestion that I did. He needs to appeal to the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution to make a secular case. Here is the thing. The morality enshrined in God’s law is in harmony with natural law, because the same God who created the one created the other. This is why we don’t have to appeal to scripture or even religion. God’s law only articulates what he has built into his design of the natural universe. Arguing it is bad to murder, and that government is created to preserve innocent life, and only allow for the taking of life under due process of law is an argument that anyone can make, whether they be religious or secular.

 

[pnewton]

He needs to appeal to the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution to make a secular case.

I am concerned the way he juxtaposed faith and the Constitution, almost as if the Bible and the Constitution were of the same origin and weight. This does not bode well for Catholicism in the United States if, as has been the pattern, people again take up patriotic Protestantism. Let us see if this worsens in the next three months.

 

[Hodos]

I am concerned the way he juxtaposed faith and the Constitution, almost as if the Bible and the Constitution were of the same origin and weight. This does not bode well for Catholicism in the United States if, as has been the pattern, people again take up patriotic Protestantism. Let us see if this worsens in the next three months.

You would have to get more specific. I don’t know what specific statement you are referring to. From what I have seen, President Trump has posed no threat to the Catholic Church and has defended it on numerous occasions. He appears to believe just as much in the no establishment clause as he does in the free exercise clause.

 

[pnewton]

“Take away your guns, take away your Second Amendment. No religion, no anything,” Trump said, standing behind a podium with the presidential seal. “Hurt the Bible. Hurt God. He’s against God. He’s against guns. He’s against energy.”

He is against God and guns???

The Bible is on par with the not Bill of Rights. Right?

 

[Hodos]

He is saying that Biden is against their interests on a host of issues. I wouldn’t disagree with that statement even if it isn’t articulated very well.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

“Take away your guns, take away your Second Amendment. No religion, no anything,” Trump said, standing behind a podium with the presidential seal. “Hurt the Bible. Hurt God. He’s against God. He’s against guns. He’s against energy.”

That’s just the way Trump talks. I’m sorry, but “hurt the Bible” borders on being baby talk.

 

[vz71]

Biden would be right to say that many of Trump’s actions are no more in concert with his professed faith either.

What faith would that be?

 

[Hodos]

What faith would that be?

Exactly my point.

 

[FrankFletcher]

This is extremely uncharitable. Political discussion is nearly always fraught with discord, each side completely convinced they are in the right, telling others what they should believe, neither side willing to truly understand the other’s perspective.

In my opinion, Trump supporters are willing to overlook enormous character flaws, critical thinking deficits, criminal behaviour, and poor leadership just because they don’t like democrats and Trump says he’s prolife. As a psychologist, there are alarming patterns of behaviour to indicate serious personality disorders and pathology. BUT, I can see why many people support him when I listen to their reasons and I don’t just dismiss them outright.

Calling people who do not like your preferred politician ‘flies to garbage’ parallels Trump’s tendencies of name calling. When you write people off as ‘oh, they just hate Trump’ anytime concerns are brought to the fore, you actually make your perspective look weaker because you dismiss any dialogue and refuse to address valid concerns people have with Trump’s behaviour. It comes across as simplistic and lazy, and the result of this actually turns people away, reinforcing their opinions about Trump supporters and their inability or unwillingness to address very real problems with Trump, and the cycle continues. I would say the exact same about similar behaviour on the blue side of the aisle.

Whilst it is my opinion that Biden is the better presidential candidate I can certainly acknowledge his flaws and do not begrudge anyone who decides those flaws are too much to overcome. For me, Trump’s negatives are too much for me and I just cannot support him. To be frank, the last two presidential election cycles have produced weak and problematic candidates and many (most?) of us had to just hold our noses and vote for one.

The entire political system is garbage. How is this news to you?

 

[pnewton]

The entire political system is garbage. How is this news to you?

Not every one buys the GOP line that all politicians are the same. Most understand Trump is in a class (irony intentional) by himself. Heck, most Republicans know it, those who have not drank too heavily from the Kool-aid flavored tea.

 

[libbeylu]

I feel that Biden is incapable of defending himself on any issues. According to others, Biden seems to have a “memory” problem. I have watched his struggles with answers to questions presented to him. People are laughing at this situation and this is so sad. The Democrats are using him, and I can’t believe his wife is letting this mockery happen! Biden may be a Catholic, but I would never vote for him because of his political views. Trump is the best President the USA has ever had! He helped the American people as obvious with the economy, international trade, and protecting our country with the border wall. He has made our country great, but the virus interrupted his plans. His business background has benefitted in his accomplishments in this United States of America!

 

[farronwolf]

Each child stolen from their parent had and has dignity.

When a woman gets an abortion, the child is not stolen from her, she elects to have it killed.

The father on the other hand, who has no say so in the matter is possibly having a child stolen from them.

Lets be clear, no man has ever gotten an abortion.

To overlook the elephant in the room, which is women demanded, and still demand the ability to legally kill their own children is overlooking the truth. For masses of people to put their faith in a single political figure to solve this problem is wishful thinking at best.

 

[F_Marturana]

Ok. I was referring to the children sequestered from their parents at the border.

I wasn’t referring to abortion.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Spot on!..

 

[upant]

We have one candidate on my state ballot who is pro life in accordance with the Church, Brian Carroll.

he also makes allowances, we been down this line of thought, others interested search the threads for how BC will compromise on abortion.

Umm, yeah, as far as sexual sins.

are you sure Biden has no sexual sins? he has been accused

No wonder so many young people think so little of Christians.

maybe they have Biden as there example of what a Catholic is.

the Democrats people have and will have better social security, better education opportunities, better healthcare and so many other things better

why didn’t we have it under the prior democrats? why is it always the next one? what about the rest of the items on the Democrat platform? look at the cities run by the democrats, they don’t have what you want. in addition to abortion Democrats support:

the entire LGBT agenda, euthanasia, embryonic stem cell research, transgenderism, identity politics, the destruction of the family, contraception, socialism, breaking the seal of the confession, forced abortions in catholic hospitals, liberal judges who will uphold these policies, etc

But if you save the unborn child from abortion then you MUST take care of his/her life, education, healthcare, family protection, his body and soul. You can not just bring newborn child out of the womb and put it nowhere or let he/she go where his/her eyes are directed.

do you think there aren’t programs to do this?

I am not sure that every child that is saved from abortion, is living happy live and is not taken aback and is’t experiencing unnecessary hardships.

they have a chance for salvation, we don’t know the outcome of the soul of an aborted baby.

He was asked and he said he’s never asked God for forgiveness, so I really doubt that’s going to happen.

has Biden asked forgiveness for his pro-abortion, LGBT, etc, stances?

 

[farronwolf]

oops, my bad.

That does fall on the current occupant of the white house.