Trump driving migrant debate among GOP field

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Even if we deported every last illegal immigrant (which I am not opposed to in principle), wouldn’t many simply sneak back in again? Catch and release?
 
RACJ said:
What other sovereign nation on earth rewards lawbreakers with benefits, including citizenship, for their babies and ultimate citizenship for them? If there IS such a nation, it’s a dying one. 😦
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You really didn’t answer my question.
 
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FollowChrist34:
Agreed. Look at the Nazis. They exterminated 6 million. Though we will need that level of organization and sophistication. Do we have it? Can Trump get it in place in time? Is it perhaps more practical to exterminate them? Cost effective? Time saving? Definitely something to consider.

Well you do make an interesting jump in conclusions, deportation is not extermination but, you are correct. Offing a few thousand publicly would probably send the rest running for the border, especially if we offered to pay the ticket home. Wouldn’t have to hire all those ICE folks. (being sarcastic here)

Or is this too “social justice warrior” - not sure on what that means. Are those the ones arguing for sending them all back or the ones trying to stop/limit it on humanitarian grounds?

Mostly holier than thou types who believe in collective redemption if you hold all the right views.

Good. I agree babies should have a guardian. I want to go on record here as opposed to boxing them up and sending them back on their own.

(Does Jesus read CAF? - God help us; I sincerely hope not)

Agreed. Especially with immigration policies like this coming from the GOP and the complete chaos and lawlessness we have on this issue from the Democrats.

My point: effective immigration reform is essential. It should be bi-partisan. It should respect human rights. Believe it or not, I still like Trump for the simple reason that he is speaking out on issues that others are afraid to touch - and now are forced to.

My point is nothing is going to happen, all the important people want things as they are and the visible politicians will do their bidding. What the two parties do in public is for public consumption. So sit back and enjoy the show. Republocrat/Demopublican what diffwerence does it make.

My hope: we tone down this wild rhetoric before it elects Joe Biden. We elect a GOP President who improves the immigration crisis in this country. Oh, and doesn’t deport or exterminate 11 million people.

Disagree need more wild rhetoric get more hysterics this way

:gopray2:
 
This is what I get for posting before reading; my haste misguided me a bit. I am actually with Trump on the basics:
Trump grounds his policies in “three core principles” — that a nation should control its border, enforce its immigration laws, and put its own workers first — that are not only unobjectionable but should be the starting point of any reasonable immigration policy. How regrettable that until now, none of the candidates have articulated them in any systematic way. Likewise, several of the enforcement policies that follow should be widely adopted: increasing the number of Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers, encouraging greater cooperation between ICE and local gang task forces, implementing e-Verify nationwide, deporting criminal aliens, ending catch-and-release policies, defunding sanctuary cities, and increasing penalties for visa overstays. These are all important elements of any meaningful effort to enforce America’s immigration laws.
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Also:
The plan doesn’t address what to do with illegal immigrants already here, which is defensible because enforcement should be the first priority. But Trump’s mouth has gotten far out in front of his written plan, and he continues to talk up a cracked version of amnesty. On Sunday’s Meet the Press, he reiterated his intention to deport, then re-import, current illegal immigrants — a de facto amnesty that is more costly, time-consuming, and logistically fraught than any currently on the table. Additionally, Trump’s stated intention to avoid separating families by sending American-born children with their parents is obviously illegal; the United States government has no authority to deport American citizens.
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In sum, nobody knows what to do with the 11 million current illegal immigrants, not even Trump. His plan doesn’t mention them.

nationalreview.com/article/422664/trumps-immigration-plan-good-start-need-more-details
 
tomarin said:
Even if we deported every last illegal immigrant (which I am not opposed to in principle), wouldn’t many simply sneak back in again? Catch and release?
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Many would, even if the border was more secure, but many wouldn’t. Also, many of those who overstayed visas are going to have a tough time getting back if they’re from just about anywhere other than Mexico and Central America. If they’re barred from ever having a visa again and have to fly here to get here, they’re probably gone for good.

The visa overstayers are a big part of the whole; something like 40% as I understand it.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Many would, even if the border was more secure, but many wouldn’t. Also, many of those who overstayed visas are going to have a tough time getting back if they’re from just about anywhere other than Mexico and Central America. If they’re barred from ever having a visa again and have to fly here to get here, they’re probably gone for good.

The visa overstayers are a big part of the whole; something like 40% as I understand it.
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I was under the impression the vast majority of illegal immigration was from Mexico and Central America? Not true? (I realize there might not be reliable statistics about this given the nature of the phenomenon.)
 
Mary_Gail_36 said:
According to Andrew Napolitano, has stated that each person being deported is entitled to a hearing and an appeal. 11 million of them. The judicial system can handle about 250,000 per year.

insider.foxnews.com/2015/08/17/what-can-trump-actually-do-legally-immigration-deportations-judge-napolitano-explains

I’d like to point out that not all undocumented immigrants are Mexican.

There are an estimated 50,000 undocumented Irish immigrants in NYC and Boston.
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And a high percentage of those who get a hearing don’t show up for their hearing; over 80% if not 90%.

Surely, if one is caught within miles of the actual border, they don’t have to go through this whole procedure. It should not be that difficult to deport someone.

Believe it or not, Chinese are going into Brazil, bribing to go and then, likely go to work in some sweatshop in Brazil, not the USA:

skynews.com.au/news/world/sthamerica/2015/08/16/chinese-migrants–bribing-way-into-brazil-.html

It’s semi-slavery some articles say.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Many would, even if the border was more secure, but many wouldn’t. Also, many of those who overstayed visas are going to have a tough time getting back if they’re from just about anywhere other than Mexico and Central America. If they’re barred from ever having a visa again and have to fly here to get here, they’re probably gone for good.

The visa overstayers are a big part of the whole; something like 40% as I understand it.
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I was glibly assuming that most of the illegal immigrants were Mexican or Central American and it was fears of them not assimilating that was driving this perennial debate.
 
tomarin said:
I was glibly assuming that most of the illegal immigrants were Mexican or Central American and it was fears of them not assimilating that was driving this perennial debate.
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A big fear, is that they turn a place into a liberal stronghold. California use to vote Republican for President at least. There is almost no chance of this happening soon. It’s the voting issue with many.

Just think about Italy, home of the Vatican. What if there were so many Muslims there as those are the refugees coming through, they came to outnumber Roman Catholics? This is the issue with illegal immigration and it is sad and unfortunate.

By the way, many of those coming through Italy are Eritreans. Just saying that, we shouldn’t play up the refugees from Syria/Iraq too much. I’m sure the stats are out there.
 
I think those who use an emotional compassionate argument should consider being the first ones to step up for the housing of illegal immigrants by using their own homes.
 
Path_Finder said:
A big fear, is that they turn a place into a liberal stronghold. California use to vote Republican for President at least. There is almost no chance of this happening soon. It’s the voting issue with many.

Just think about Italy, home of the Vatican. What if there were so many Muslims there as those are the refugees coming through, they came to outnumber Roman Catholics? This is the issue with illegal immigration and it is sad and unfortunate.

By the way, many of those coming through Italy are Eritreans. Just saying that, we shouldn’t play up the refugees from Syria/Iraq too much. I’m sure the stats are out there.
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Muslim immigrants to Europe have proven to create an oppositional culture within Europe rather than becoming ‘new Europeans.’ I don’t think that’s been or even could be the case with Mexicans, who are after all Christian.
 
tomarin said:
I was glibly assuming that most of the illegal immigrants were Mexican or Central American and it was fears of them not assimilating that was driving this perennial debate.
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That was a definitely a glib assumption.
 
tomarin said:
Muslim immigrants to Europe have proven to create an oppositional culture within Europe rather than becoming ‘new Europeans.’ I don’t think that’s been or even could be the case with Mexicans, who are after all Christian.
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And the answer to this of course and not to be confrontational but it is that they are also leaving a country that by this rationale would be Christian.

So, maybe it’s a bit more than sharing Christian values.
 
tomarin said:
I’m so glib I’m just one disco medallion short of the Bee Gees.
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👍

Go for it.

Hey, as long as you are not flirting (knowingly or unknowingly) with neo-fascism, it’s all good from where I stand. 🙂
 
FollowChrist34 said:
👍

Go for it.

Hey, as long as you are not flirting (knowingly or unknowingly) with neo-fascism, it’s all good from where I stand. 🙂
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I’m not a nativist, if that’s what you mean. I think we have every right as a country to secure our borders, but also that immigration from Mexico does not constitute a civilizational crisis as Muslim immigration to Europe arguably does. I do feel that populists like Trump take advantage of people’s economic anxieties by shouting “illegal immigration!” and benefit from all the kerfuffle that ensues.
 
tomarin said:
I’m not a nativist, if that’s what you mean.
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Yes, that is what I am driving at - me either. Good thing too - sounds like I could be headed back to Europe in a box. Though I doubt I would be alone. I do agree it would pretty quiet around here when we were done.
 
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