Trump Massive Rally in Washington DC (Nov. 14th) (Tens of Thousands Gather)

[Nepperhan]

So you are for full transparency because of all the anomalies to make certain that EVERYONE (i.e., not just Biden voters) is satisfied that the count accurately reflects one legitimate voter = one legitimate vote.

Great!

Actually, I have yet to see “all the anomalies” or evidence of any anomalies. So I hope you agree with me that what ever problems eventually raise their ugly heads, the election results will not be changed.

By the way, anyone who really believes in ‘one person, one vote’ would favor elimination of the electoral college.

 

[HarryStotle]

HarryStotle:

One of the affidavits is from a retired captain from the Houston PD.

This is not evidence. It would be tossed in court. It says he has video of other people saying that they several different things. The last line reads:

"“This entire operation is being run by the elite politicians of the Democrat
Party in Houston/Hams County.”

He is a “private investigator,” meaning he gets paid to do this. Furthermore, he isn’t retired, he was fired from the HPD and criminally charged. He was not convicted, but the court upheld the firing.

And now for the rest of the story…

The controversy prompted the largest internal affairs investigation in HPD’s history and later resulted in disciplinary action against 32 officers and staff members. A jury acquitted Aguirre of five counts of official oppression.

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-...eman-says-he-was-betrayed-in-raid-1983728.php

So clearly the Internal Affairs investigation thought that there was some substance to his claims that he was was “betrayed by his co-workers” and that he was not guilty of any criminal act.

That, however, is not evidence against his allegations, which your somewhat incoherent statement does not establish…

This is not evidence. It would be tossed in court. It says he has video of other people saying that they several different things.

The fact that his allegations are against the “elite politicians of the Democrat Party in Houston” does not disqualify his claims.

Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton has announced 134 felony charges against four people arrested for running a Vote By Mail fraud scheme during the 2018 Democratic primary elections. The defendants stand accused of pretending people were handicapped in order to give them mail-in ballots —…​

Link: Democrat Vote By Mail Fraudsters Arrested In Texas On 134 FELONY CHARGES - National File

It is up to the courts to decide where this goes.

 

[LilyM]

Nepperhan:

HarryStotle:

Clearly Biden has some kind of relationship with the Chairman of the Board of Smartmatic since he has named that individual to his transition team. No past relationship? Uh huh.

That doesn’t sound like a slam dunk to me. Plus we are back into McCarthyism again-- the point is not the credentials of the counters but if the count is accurate.

So you are for full transparency because of all the anomalies to make certain that EVERYONE (i.e., not just Biden voters) is satisfied that the count accurately reflects one legitimate voter = one legitimate vote.

Great!

We are in agreement.

And why is no thought being spared by Trump supporters for pro-Trump fraud in the states Trump supposedly won?

After all, the single confrned instance of an attempted vote by a dead person was a vote for Trump. We would have to be deluded to think that if there is fraud it is just on one side.

But truth is for them it has probably never been about ensuring a fair system over all, or for all, but only ensuring that Biden doesn’t win.

 

[billsherman]

That post appears to support the position that “ everyone ” ought to vote absent any criteria whatsoever .

The problem with that suggestion is that individuals with no investment in government outcomes, those with no interest in informing themselves or incapable of understanding the political landscape, or those who are utterly hostile to Constitutional Rights (unrepentant felons, for example) all would have equal franchise.

I will save you the trouble of parsing my words: I support every eligible citizen voting. The eligibility requirements are set forth in the Constitution: age, citizenship.

I’m a heartless radical, in that I see no good reason why felons (even those currently incarcerated) should lose their right to vote. They are, after all, still citizens. If anything, they are far more affected by government in their daily lives than the rest of us. But I get that that is a ridiculously controversial position.

To your main point though: there just aren’t good reasons to keep people you don’t think are sufficiently informed from voting.

 

[Allie1]

Yes, this astonishes me. From the other side of the Atlantic I’m astonished that a modern sophisticated republic cannot establish polling stations of sufficient size and efficiency to enable people to vote without waiting for hours. I always vote and I almost always vote in person, but I have never had to wait more than five minutes

You’re absolutely right. Even before the pandemic the US has actually been closing down polling precints.

This should be an embarrassment that should cause every American concern.

Here is an article from September 2019.
(Before this pandemic started).

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1VV09J

From the article:
Seven counties in Georgia now have only one polling place, the report found

Election officials in Texas have closed more than 1 in 10 voting locations statewide

Georgia, Louisiana and Mississippi closed roughly 1 in 20 polling locations

Polling Places Are Closing Due To COVID-19. It Could Tip Races In 1 Swing State | NPR Illinois

Since the 2016 general election, Iowa has lost 261 polling places, according to an analysis by the Center for Public Integrity, Stateline and NPR

 

[pnewton]

That, however, is not evidence against his allegations, which your somewhat incoherent statement does not establish…

Then I will make it simpler.

Fired is not retired.
Hearsay is inadmissible.

 

[HarryStotle]

HarryStotle:

Nepperhan:

HarryStotle:

Clearly Biden has some kind of relationship with the Chairman of the Board of Smartmatic since he has named that individual to his transition team. No past relationship? Uh huh.

That doesn’t sound like a slam dunk to me. Plus we are back into McCarthyism again-- the point is not the credentials of the counters but if the count is accurate.

So you are for full transparency because of all the anomalies to make certain that EVERYONE (i.e., not just Biden voters) is satisfied that the count accurately reflects one legitimate voter = one legitimate vote.

Great!

We are in agreement.

And why is no thought being spared by Trum supporters for pro-Trump fraud in the states Trump supposedly won?

Feel free to report those. The Democrat Party should pursue that and I would be supportive.

After all, the single confrned instance of an attempted vote by a dead person was a vote for Trump. We would have to be deluded to think that if there is fraud it is just on one side.

But truth is for them it has probably never been about ensuring a fair system over all, or for all, but only ensuring that Biden doesn’t win.

There are numerous other reports of dead people having submitted absentee ballots, so the question of whether their ballots actually counted and when they were rejected remains an open one. Sure state could ostensibly go back and manually check those who were reported to have submitted ballots and rejected those after the fact to claim that they didn’t actually vote. The question is whether that would have happened without scrutiny and public oversight.

It isn’t about ensuring that “Biden didn’t win,” it is about ensuring that Biden won fairly.

Are you saying the election shouldn’t be scrutinized at all? Why?

 

[gam197]

ThinkingSapien:

Dan123:

2.2 million new GA voters over what period of time?

Maybe it came from this? Just a guess. I don’t actually know.

Our analysis shows that people who were registered through AVR do vote — but not necessarily at the same rate as those who register themselves. Let’s run through the numbers:

• From the day they first implemented AVR through their 2018 voter-registration deadline,2 those eight places automatically registered around 2.2 million new voters. (Although, as we’ll talk about in a minute, some of those voters surely would have registered without AVR.)
• As many as 6 million existing voters who interacted with a government agency had their voter registrations automatically updated — for example, by replacing an outdated address.3

Jurisdiction	Start of AVR Data	New AVR Registrants	AVR Updated Registrations
Alaska	March 1, 2017	46,088	321,303
California	April 1, 2018	624,871	1,607,328
Colorado	March 1, 2017	240,871	634,369
D.C.	June 27, 2018	7,685	40,505
Georgia	Sept 1, 2016	702,635	2,335,739
Oregon	Jan 1, 2016	516,695	Up to 907,494
Rhode Island	June 11, 2018	6,835	37,810
Vermont	Jan 1, 2017	26,852	9,696

You may want to think about this.

California initiated over a year ago a new “Motor voter” registration law that automatically enrolls residents to vote when they renew their driver’s licenses even if they are not citizens or eligible to vote.

Yet, California (pop ~40 million) registered 730, 000 LESS individuals than Georgia (pop ~10.7 million).

Hmmm.

Sure Georgia started in 2016, California in 2018, but still…

Why can they not allow 2 states one is Georgia and the other is PA to allow for audits of the ballot to clear up the people’s minds.

Georgia, just one state might help to do that. Check the DMV records, cross check to federal government and legal status. Let them do it.

 

[sallybutler]

Apparently the checks in the system prevented these people from having ballots cast in their name. So the system worked to prevent illegal voter registrations from happening

 

[HarryStotle]

To your main point though: there just aren’t good reasons to keep people you don’t think are sufficiently informed from voting.

Is there “no good” reason for keeping people who are not “sufficiently competent” from driving or obtaining university degrees, or buying a house?

Seeing as the future of the country hangs in the balance, are you certain there ought not be any qualifying requirements? None at all?

So anarchists who want to destroy the country and reduce it to rubble should be given a say in the destiny of the country? If so, could you explain why?

Just making sure I understand your position.

 

[Dan123]

You may want to think about this.

California initiated over a year ago a new “Motor voter” registration law that automatically enrolls residents to vote when they renew their driver’s licenses even if they are not citizens or eligible to vote.

Yet, California (pop ~40 million) registered 730, 000 LESS individuals than Georgia (pop ~10.7 million).

Hmmm.

Sure Georgia started in 2016, California in 2018, but still…

… no concerns?

Maybe California didn’t have as many barriers to eligible voters registering to vote as Georgia did? I still want to know what the 2.2 million timeframe is, because any time I ask there’s a link to 1 million or something. I still don’t know the specific stat being cited.

 

[Dan123]

Georgia, just one state might help to do that. Check the DMV records, cross check to federal government and legal status. Let them do it.

Up thread you were incredulous that GA would be able to verify all those people, and here you present the exact mechanism they’re using as a novel idea.

 

[Dan123]

So anarchists who want to destroy the country and reduce it to rubble should be given a say in the destiny of the country? If so, could you explain why?

Could you please provide a list of political opinions you feel should disqualify someone from voting?

 

[HarryStotle]

Maybe California didn’t have as many barriers to eligible voters registering to vote as Georgia did? I still want to know what the 2.2 million timeframe is, because any time I ask there’s a link to 1 million or something. I still don’t know the specific stat being cited.

I believe areas in California allow non-citizens to vote, although it isn’t clear to me whether that includes federally.

That would effectively mean there are no barriers except the ability to get a motor vehicle license.

 

[HarryStotle]

HarryStotle:

So anarchists who want to destroy the country and reduce it to rubble should be given a say in the destiny of the country? If so, could you explain why?

Could you please provide a list of political opinions you feel should disqualify someone from voting?

I would have to think about it. That would be my point, however.

It isn’t clear to me that just anyone should vote because someone with traitorous intent probably shouldn’t, but at the same time there ought not be limitations on those whose lives and futures are impacted.

The Dem Party is pushing for non-citizen voting and open borders. I don’t think that will turn out well for the country even if it does benefit the Dem Party short term.

 

[HarryStotle]

Odilon:

He could vote “absentee” as I always do." That is different from “mail-in” voting

Absentee voting and mail in voting are the same thing.

No they aren’t. Absentee ballots require a legitimate reason for not being able to vote in person. Mail in ballots require no reason and in many cases do not even require an application.

The word “absentee” means something, as in "will be legitimately absent from the voting precinct when voting occurs."

Merely because they appear to have the same superficial result does not mean they are “the same thing.”

 

[Usagi]

Why can they not allow 2 states one is Georgia and the other is PA to allow for audits of the ballot to clear up the people’s minds.

Georgia, just one state might help to do that. Check the DMV records, cross check to federal government and legal status. Let them do it.

Do you honestly think that any of us you are currently discussing with has the power to allow or prevent such audits?

No one is saying do them or don’t do them, nor would our words have any power if we did.

We have spent an entire thread simply trying to persuade you that, just maybe, Georgia has steps between “don’t check that opt-out box on your license renewal” and “just assume you are an eligible voter.”

As has been pointed out a few times, teenagers 16 and 17 years old will be among those applying for licenses. And they are at least as likely as anyone else to miss the checkbox, even though they are ineligible to vote.

Do you believe there is no mechanism for catching mistakes by those kids before they make it onto the voter rolls?

 

[1ke]

Is there “no good” reason for keeping people who are not “sufficiently competent” from driving or obtaining university degrees, or buying a house?

There is no constitutional right to any of these things.

There is, however, a constitutional right to vote if you are a citizen and 18+.

 

[billsherman]

Seeing as the future of the country hangs in the balance, are you certain there ought not be any qualifying requirements?

There should be, and are, requirements to vote: age, citizenship, and conviction of certain felonies in some states. Some states also impose other requirements, such as having a specified form of ID at the polling location, or traveling to a polling station that might be far away from your house.

I believe that the only two valid reasons (because they are the only ones mentioned in the Constitution) are age and citizenship.

So anarchists who want to destroy the country and reduce it to rubble should be given a say in the destiny of the country? If so, could you explain why?

If they are otherwise qualified to vote, anarchists who want to destroy the country have the right to vote at this very moment. Are you suggesting a loyalty test to determine eligibility? After all, we have people on this very forum who think Democrats are tools of Satan. Surely anyone who opposes Donald Trump must be denied the ability to vote.

Why do I feel the way I do? Well, it’s simple. Voting is how our system of government works. If we pick and choose who gets to vote and who doesn’t we can rig the system any way we want.

Don’t like it when Democrats win elections? Just make sure non-white people can’t vote. That alone would pretty much solve the problem.

Don’t like when rich people have to pay taxes? Just make sure there is an income limit before you can vote.

Etc.

 

[1ke]

Absentee ballots require a legitimate reason for not being able to vote in person.

Not in every state. I already told you in Wisconsin you do not need a reason to vote “absentee” even though you fill out an application for an absentee ballot in order to vote by mail. It is semantics.