Trump Steps Up Attacks on Mail Vote, Making False Claims About Fraud

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Well I have some experience with the Canvas Board. The other end of protections. The counting.
States already have mail in without any meaningful fraud. For years.
 
With mail-in voting, eventually criminal organizations will determine who governs us. The “political bosses” in the Dem party think they’ll be in control of how people vote with a relatively mild system of rewards and punishments. They might be for awhile, but it won’t last, because criminal organizations are so much better at it.
 
I voted by mail for twenty years, like pretty much everyone in the military. Every state has had vote by mail in varying degrees for around a hundred years, and some states go farther back than that. The idea that it creates some kind of issue is unfounded, and obviously motivated by a desire to have fewer people vote.
 
TMC said:
obviously motivated by a desire to have fewer people vote.
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Why insult me? You have no reason to say that.

Other than absentee balloting, we have had secret balloting for the very good reason that it’s the best protection against voter intimidation. With absentee balloting there is some amount of fraud, but it’s not huge because the numbers are small. It amazes me that anyone would think we should throw out the secret ballot. I understand Dems think it will increase the numbers of Dem votes. But they’ll lose control of a mess like that in pretty short order and the criminal organizations will control voting.

Every first world country has secret balloting, and has had for more than a century. Democrats think returning to the mid 19th century and Tammany Hall will help them win elections. But one needs to remember that political boss systems of that era were profoundly criminal.
 
We have progressed from Tammany Hall. Our history is denying the vote on race, on gender. Tammany Hall has another element of history. Immigrants who " got off the boat" learned quickly that the difference in having zero power to feed a family, and enough to survive, grew out of institutions.
We have law that is designed to stop poll taxes, property ownership requirements, and ID in this era. The supression efforts do challenge the franchise.
Strategies to limit polling places, access to them. Robocalls misinforming voters on election day.
Billion dollar campaigns to keep people home. And now Covid!
All truly the threat.
We have states that have mail in and it works. The efforts should be in extending and protecting rights, not creating or ignoring impediments.
I am glad my politics are served by people voting. Anytime it is about suppression, it involves a minority of privilege trying to control others.
 
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Ridgerunner said:
The “political bosses” in the Dem party think they’ll be in control of how people vote with a relatively mild system of rewards and punishments.
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Ridgerunner said:
Democrats think returning to the mid 19th century and Tammany Hall will help them win elections.
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And, yet, the most recent absentee/mail in voter fraud/harvesting was perpetuated by Republicans.
 
PaulinVA said:
And, yet, the most recent absentee/mail in voter fraud/harvesting was perpetuated by Republicans.
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Perhaps you could give us a reliable source on that.

But even if it’s so, all it tells you is that vote harvesting is subject to abuse, no matter who does it.
 
Democrats think what?
None that I know. Those ideas are attempts to discredit Democrats. Intentional or not.
 
Our history is clearly perpetual attempts to suppress votes.
Minorities and the poor. That is danger number one
 
PaulinVA said:
That can be overcome. That doesn’t mean we give up.
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There is a reason why no first world country (and many others) have mail in balloting and have opted for the secret ballot. You send out ballots so others can “supervise” the voting, and you’ll have massive fraud. Back in the 19th Century, they actually published ballots in the newspapers and people filled them out and sent them in. It resulted in massive fraud and so every civilized country opted for secret balloting in person.

That’s so basic I don’t know why anybody would ever think we ought to throw out the secret ballot.
 
We do have mail in ballots in some states.
With no problems of note.
This is a problem in search of a cause
 
Ridgerunner said:
Anybody who has ever worked as a party worker during elections know how easy it is to manipulate mail-in voting. With mail-in voting, we’ll never have another honest election again.
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With signature matching used today, voting by mail is just as secure as voting in person. In both cases they check your signature. Voting by mail is not new. It goes back decades. It would be quite a change to suddenly disallow absentee ballots.
With absentee balloting there is some amount of fraud, but it’s not huge because the numbers are small.
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So, there is an elite group for whom voting by mail is OK, but that is OK because this elite group is “small.” Let’s let all the people enjoy the privileges this elite group has.
 
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Ridgerunner said:
There is a reason why no first world country (and many others) have mail in balloting and have opted for the secret ballot.
That’s so basic I don’t know why anybody would ever think we ought to throw out the secret ballot.
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Voting by mail is just as secret as voting in person.
 
RR, I seem to remember that you talked about being a party worker and seeing things that were not above board. If I’m wrong I apologize, I’m not trying to besmirch your character.

I simply want to hypothesize that maybe your experience is not universal, and there actually are more honest people than dishonest.
 
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