Trump team and United Technologies reach agreement on keeping close to 1,000 factory jobs in Carrier plant in Indiana

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ProVobis said:
Actually the TARP program and the Bear Stearns fiasco were under Bush.
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The TARP program did begin in the Bush admin.

Of course, for an accurate view of the the crash that made the admin grasp at such a measure…this should start in
1999 Clinton admin pressuring banks to extend loans to individuals with poor credit and low incomes.
Bush in 2002-03 did see a problem with Fannie and Freddie and tried to regulate but he let the likes of Barney Frank derail any real measures. Weak admin. Worse Congress.

This is not getting into the people taking on home loans- who knew they couldn’t afford them. The irresponsible financial lending practices. And the criminal packaging of high risk loans and hungry investors asking little questions.
 
Looks like the number is down to 730 jobs saved. Seems that Trump was including 350 R&D jobs that were never going to leave Indiana in his total. The rest of the jobs are going to Mexico except instead of a 35% tariff they will instead get a nice tax break in the millions.

USW: 730 union jobs saved in Carrier deal - not 1,100

This is what a con looks like.
 
Millie123 said:
From the way I see it, generally speaking, when people have something that breaks down…they are not prepared for it. Generally speaking, it is said that most Americans have less than $500 dollars in their bank account for emergency expenses. So when big ticket items break down that need to be placed immediately. Like your refrigerator, water heater, furnace. They are truly not prepared to pay a premium price up front for an appliance that may last longer in the long run…they are just interested in replacing the appliance that will get them through their crisis here and now.
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I think a lot has to do with technology and fashion. Nobody wants a 20 year old energy guzzling refrigerator. Fashions come and go. Now everybody wants a stainless steel French door fridge with ice and water in the door. They put the old fridge in the basement.

Same with cars, most people get a new one as soon as the old loan is paid off, some people I know do it before the old loan is paid off. They just roll the loan. I heard you can get a seven year car loan these days. :eek:
 
J_Peterson said:
Looks like the number is down to 730 jobs saved. Seems that Trump was including 350 R&D jobs that were never going to leave Indiana in his total. The rest of the jobs are going to Mexico except instead of a 35% tariff they will instead get a nice tax break in the millions.

USW: 730 union jobs saved in Carrier deal - not 1,100

This is what a con looks like.
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I reckon he’s taking a crash course in becoming a politician LOL
 
qui_est_ce said:
I think a lot has to do with technology and fashion. Nobody wants a 20 year old energy guzzling refrigerator. Fashions come and go. Now everybody wants a stainless steel French door fridge with ice and water in the door. They put the old fridge in the basement.

:
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Yes and when it comes to this kind of technology/ fashion, things do not stay popular for very long, I would bet they have the next best model waiting in the pipelines to replace the stainless steel side by sides of today, and more than likely these new models will hit stores around the same time the currently popular ones are designed to break down.

Personally that sounds like predatory capitalism, in the past, fridges and freezers were made to last decades, my grandparents had a deep freezer from the 1960s that ran strong thru 2003 when they died, and I bet it is still running for the person who bought it. This 8ft freezer did not use much electric either.
 
qui_est_ce said:
I think a lot has to do with technology and fashion. Nobody wants a 20 year old energy guzzling refrigerator. Fashions come and go. Now everybody wants a stainless steel French door fridge with ice and water in the door. They put the old fridge in the basement.

Same with cars, most people get a new one as soon as the old loan is paid off, some people I know do it before the old loan is paid off. They just roll the loan. I heard you can get a seven year car loan these days. :eek:
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People will have to pay a HUGE premium price for a refrigerator in which your speaking of made solely in the USA.
here is a list of refrigerator manufacturers that make their refrigerators in the USA.
reference.com/home-garden/refrigerator-brands-made-usa-52191a69640af231#
  1. Sub-zero- which will cost around $7500.
    consumerreports.org/cro/news/2012/08/are-sub-zero-refrigerators-worth-the-price/index.htm
  2. Perlick- who I just looked to only sell small under counter refrigerators. But, they still sell them at a premium price between $2500- $3000.
  3. Viking- consumers would need to be prepared to pay a premium of $3500 for their refrigerator
  4. GE Monogram line - Which cost at a minimum $7000.
  5. Dacor- costs at a minimum $3000
  6. Thermador- the cheapest one I found while very briefly searching was $5000
As a consumer I am not prepared to pay a premium that high for an American made refrigerator.

Pretty much the only option for a reasonably price refrigerator made in America is Frigidaire, but only their 15-18 cubic foot refrigerators.
There are truly not any options for truly 100% American made refrigerators
 
Millie123 said:
People will have to pay a HUGE premium price for a refrigerator in which your speaking of made solely in the USA.
here is a list of refrigerator manufacturers that make their refrigerators in the USA.
reference.com/home-garden/refrigerator-brands-made-usa-52191a69640af231#
  1. Sub-zero- which will cost around $7500.
    consumerreports.org/cro/news/2012/08/are-sub-zero-refrigerators-worth-the-price/index.htm
  2. Perlick- who I just looked to only sell small under counter refrigerators. But, they still sell them at a premium price between $2500- $3000.
  3. Viking- consumers would need to be prepared to pay a premium of $3500 for their refrigerator
  4. GE Monogram line - Which cost at a minimum $7000.
  5. Dacor- costs at a minimum $3000
  6. Thermador- the cheapest one I found while very briefly searching was $5000
As a consumer I am not prepared to pay a premium that high for an American made refrigerator.

Pretty much the only option for a reasonably price refrigerator made in America is Frigidaire, but only their 15-18 cubic foot refrigerators.
There are truly not any options for truly 100% American made refrigerators
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What you are saying is true, but it has not always been. When my grandparents bought their big chest freezer back in the 1960s, the price was about the same as other brands, it was not a top of the line brand either, (like Subzero and some others).

I find it hard to believe the idea behind planned appliance obsolescence is a relatively new thing, why were appliance makers in the past not doing the same thing they do today, surely they saw the financial benefit from doing such a thing? but really its the same reason all these companies have factories where there is cheap labor today, GREED, its reached epic levels today, companies are greedier than ever, no amount is ever good enough, always want more.

I have no doubt in the future, the life of appliances will keep going down too,they will find cheaper and cheaper ways to get them to the salesfloor and if done slowly enough, they know people will just accept it.

Or maybe its possible they did not because they knew the consumer would not stand for it back then, but today its almost accepted that you have to replace certain things with a certain time frame, people even laugh and joke about the ‘planned life’ of appliances, but they all still fork over the cash with no complaint when the time comes…gee, that is pretty convenient for the appliance companies!
 
mikekle said:
What you are saying is true, but it has not always been. When my grandparents bought their big chest freezer back in the 1960s, the price was about the same as other brands, it was not a top of the line brand either, (like Subzero and some others).

I find it hard to believe the idea behind planned appliance obsolescence is a relatively new thing, why were appliance makers in the past not doing the same thing they do today, surely they saw the financial benefit from doing such a thing? but really its the same reason all these companies have factories where there is cheap labor today, GREED, its reached epic levels today, companies are greedier than ever, no amount is ever good enough, always want more.

I have no doubt in the future, the life of appliances will keep going down too,they will find cheaper and cheaper ways to get them to the salesfloor and if done slowly enough, they know people will just accept it.

Or maybe its possible they did not because they knew the consumer would not stand for it back then, but today its almost accepted that you have to replace certain things with a certain time frame, people even laugh and joke about the ‘planned life’ of appliances, but they all still fork over the cash with no complaint when the time comes…gee, that is pretty convenient for the appliance companies!
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I feel like I am living on another planet. ALL my kitchen appliances are now 20 years old except for the garbage disposal that died after 18 years, and my electric dryer that is only 14 years old. My washer is 31 years old and came with my first house. The television in my living room is 32 years old, but not used much anymore. The compact freezer in the basement is only 6 years old. I can still wear a lot of clothes that are 20 years old, although I do need to replace some that are worn out. That will be at the clearance rack at Kohl’s. My last three vehicles were a 1988 Chevy Corsica, a 1997 Chevy Venture, and my current 2012 Chevy Cruze. Cars last a lot longer and insurance is cheaper if you are a safe driver and avoid bumping into things. This August marked 50 years without a traffic ticket on my record.

On the other hand, friends and family come to me for loans and other financial help when their savings are inadequate.
 
Trader said:
I feel like I am living on another planet. ALL my kitchen appliances are now 20 years old except for the garbage disposal that died after 18 years, and my electric dryer that is only 14 years old. My washer is 31 years old and came with my first house. The television in my living room is 32 years old, but not used much anymore. The compact freezer in the basement is only 6 years old. I can still wear a lot of clothes that are 20 years old, although I do need to replace some that are worn out. That will be at the clearance rack at Kohl’s. My last three vehicles were a 1988 Chevy Corsica, a 1997 Chevy Venture, and my current 2012 Chevy Cruze. Cars last a lot longer and insurance is cheaper if you are a safe driver and avoid bumping into things. This August marked 50 years without a traffic ticket on my record.

On the other hand, friends and family come to me for loans and other financial help when their savings are inadequate.
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This year alone we had to replace our furnace…something inside of it cracked and was spewing carbon monoxide into our home.

Our dishwasher…the wires were electrically shorting out and was a fire hazard

And our stove. The heating element in the oven died and was not fiscally smart to spend a couple hundred dollars on that one piece vs replacing the whole oven.

And we had to replace a circuit board in our refrigerator because that died…for that though we just replaced the circuit board and not the whole refrigerator.

What Ive noticed about aplliances today, is that nearly all of them now have extra computer components inside that also may effect the life span of it. My refrigerator is a simple refrigerator definitely not fancy, how was I to know when I bought it that refrigerators nowadays come with a computer board inside that regulates the temperature between the refrigerator and the freezer? This is definitely not how they were built in the past, new technologies nowadays are being added to appliances that effect their lifespan. I think the vast majority of refrigerators nowadays are like this…doesn’t matter if its American made or not.
 
So Trump gave an individual company a government bribe that failed to work?
 
There’s a kerfuffle now with a union president in Indiana disputing Trump’s figures of jobs saved, and Trump counter-attacking on Twitter.
 
tomarin said:
There’s a kerfuffle now with a union president in Indiana disputing Trump’s figures of jobs saved, and Trump counter-attacking on Twitter.
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Yes, it seems that 350 of the jobs supposably saved we’re not going anywhere anyway. Assuming that is true, the Union president had every right to point that out.
 
tomarin said:
There’s a kerfuffle now with a union president in Indiana disputing Trump’s figures of jobs saved, and Trump counter-attacking on Twitter.
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Jones, president of the United Steelworkers Local 1999, told The Post on Tuesday that he believed Trump had lied to the Carrier workers last week when he visited the Indianapolis plant. On a makeshift stage in a conference room, Trump had applauded United Technologies, Carrier’s parent company, for cutting a deal with him and agreeing to keep 1,100 jobs that were slated to move to Mexico in America’s heartland.
Jones said Trump got that figure wrong.
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Carrier, he said, had agreed to preserve 800 production jobs in Indiana. (Carrier confirmed that number.) The union leader said Trump appeared to be taking credit for rescuing 350 engineering positionsthat were never scheduled to leave. Five hundred and fifty of his members, he said, were still losing their jobs. And the company was still collectingmillions of dollars in tax breaks.
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@realDonaldTrump said:
Chuck Jones, who is President of United Steelworkers 1999, has done a terrible job representing workers. No wonder companies flee country!
7:41 PM - 7 Dec 2016
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@realDonaldTrump:
If United Steelworkers 1999 was any good, they would have kept those jobs in Indiana. Spend more time working-less time talking. Reduce dues
8:56 PM - 7 Dec 2016
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Half an hour after Trump tweeted about Jones on Wednesday, the union leader’s phone began to ring and kept ringing, he said. One voice asked: What kind of car do you drive? Another said: We’re coming for you.

src
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Saints_Alive said:
Yes, it seems that 350 of the jobs supposably saved we’re not going anywhere anyway. Assuming that is true, the Union president had every right to point that out.
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And now the union president is getting threatening phone calls from Trump supporters.
 
Thorolfr said:
And now the union president is getting threatening phone calls from Trump supporters.
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That reminded me of something Megan Kelly had said

Fresh Air said:
“What people don’t realize about Donald Trump — and I don’t even know if Donald Trump realizes it — is that every tweet he unleashes against you … creates such a crescendo of anger,” Kelly says.
…]
But most of this stuff I was able to just dismiss as angry people who are trying to scare me, you know. However, there were so many that rose to the level of “OK, that one we need to pay attention to,” that it did become alarming. It wasn’t like I walked down the street in constant fear of someone trying to take my life, but I was very aware of it.

The thing I was most worried about was that I have a 7- and a 5- and a 3-year-old, and I was worried I’d be walking down the street with my kids and somebody would do something to me in front of them; they would see me get punched in the face or get hurt.
src
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“I almost released my beautiful twitter account against you, and I still may” is also something that Kelly had reported him to have said to her about a story. I can’t help but think that he has knowledge that his words are likely to inspire others to take malicious actions against his targets.
 
ThinkingSapien said:
That reminded me of something Megan Kelly had said

“I almost released my beautiful twitter account against you, and I still may” is also something that Kelly had reported him to have said to her about a story. I can’t help but think that he has knowledge that his words are likely to inspire others to take malicious actions against his targets.
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From MSNBC:

When was the last time the United States had a leader who publicly targeted a local labor leader like this? Or more to the point, when was the last time Americans saw a leader who went after individual, everyday critics so directly?

The point of such tactics isn’t subtle: the president-elect appears to be sending a message that criticism of Trump isn’t welcome and may carry consequences. If that means Trump has to punch down, attacking a random citizen, so be it.

msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/stung-criticism-trump-goes-after-local-union-leader?cid=sm_fb_maddow
 
I’m not concerned if the final number is less than the initial discussion.

I like that it is signaling the Govt is concerned about jobs and competitiveness. I expect many companies will put their plans to export on the back burner. That is the real value of his Carrier engagement.
 
Thorolfr said:
From MSNBC:

When was the last time the United States had a leader who publicly targeted a local labor leader like this? Or more to the point, when was the last time Americans saw a leader who went after individual, everyday critics so directly?

The point of such tactics isn’t subtle: the president-elect appears to be sending a message that criticism of Trump isn’t welcome and may carry consequences. If that means Trump has to punch down, attacking a random citizen, so be it.

msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/stung-criticism-trump-goes-after-local-union-leader?cid=sm_fb_maddow
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This is not a “random citizen”; this is a union leader.

And Mr. Trump has every right in the First Amendment to criticize and counter-criticize whomever he wishes.
 
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