Trump Thread (cont.)

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Vouthon said:
I’m well aware that Trump is a marketing man. He knows how to spell out a brand and successfully sell it to a consumer. That’s to say: to all intents and purposes he doesn’t have any constant convictions. It’s all about sales with him. He isn’t a man of conviction but of instinct (I believe he was the first person in the area to fit his Atlantic City casino with strippers). For the general, he’d easily acquire a new mask if it can propel him towards the power he covets…

Problem is, he’s tied himself into a bit of a pandora’s box. His demagogic appeal rests on a set of very narrowly defined sentiments that overwhelmingly appeal to white, blue-collar men (among many others) who are worried about immigration, multiculturalism, free trade etc. and feel betrayed by the GOP establishment.

If Trump then goes “to the centre”…He becomes another establishment goon. Uh, won’t that hurt his fan base - just a little bit? What does it say about his trustworthiness? Why should anyone trust a pro-choice, pro-free trade pro-life protectionist?

Trump’s allure stems from his “new politics” - the fact that he doesn’t speak or act mainstream. If he goes mainstream, his show-boy antics will lose their lustre. As far as I see it, he’s trapped in a gilded cage which he locked himself in and threw away the key to open it. If he goes into the general as he is, he’s going to face serious trouble. If he goes mainstream, he defies the very reason why anyone would vote for him. I think he’s screwed.
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I think your problem here, which is understandable, is that you are using logic instead of emotion. Obama was a dream, emotion, image, a celebrity. Trump is Obama II.

I predict his base won’t admit the pivot to themselves! Why do so many social conservatives, Catholics, support him now? Alongside Northeast prochoicers like Scott Brown and Giuliani? You can see the denial mode in full swing right now. Trump has successfully played the NE liberal GOP and the hardcore right base all along. They like the guy…simple as that. And the GOP WANTS TO WIN.
 
Vouthon said:
I’m well aware that Trump is a marketing man. He knows how to spell out a brand and successfully sell it to a consumer. That’s to say: to all intents and purposes he doesn’t have any constant convictions. It’s all about sales with him. He isn’t a man of conviction but of instinct (I believe he was the first person in the area to fit his Atlantic City casino with strippers). For the general, he’d easily acquire a new mask if it can propel him towards the power he covets…

Problem is, he’s tied himself into a bit of a pandora’s box. His demagogic appeal rests on a set of very narrowly defined sentiments that overwhelmingly appeal to white, blue-collar men (among many others) who are worried about immigration, multiculturalism, free trade etc. and feel betrayed by the GOP establishment.

If Trump then goes “to the centre”…He becomes another establishment goon. Uh, won’t that hurt his fan base - just a little bit? What does it say about his trustworthiness?

Trump’s allure stems from his “new politics” - the fact that he doesn’t speak or act mainstream. If he goes mainstream, his show-boy antics will lose their lustre.
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Allow me to dissent slightly, Vouthon. (And I didn’t intend any unkindness in my last two posts)

Trump is like many businessmen. He’s all process. He doesn’t have an ideology. People like him are problem solvers. Their joy is in fixing things; in making them work, in turning something around from a loser to a winner. That’s what really motivates them. It’s not power and it’s not money. It’s the joy of making things work, of turning a bunch of junk into something of beauty and utility.

Since Americans (and many others) have become so accustomed to the idea that we absolutely must devote ourselves to political ideology, we are as baffled as a calf at a new gate when we see a purely functionary person dare to run for political office.

But where has ideology gotten us lately? “Fundamentally changing America”, “Arab Spring”, “cultural diversity” even “compassionate conservatism”. Not worth a plugged nickel in any real way. Hillary is now trying out a re-warmed version of “New Deal” with her “New Bargain”. A bargain of what sort? To keep paying and borrowing and to put up with corruption without daring to say anything? Some bargain that is.

Maybe we would all find it refreshing to elect a president who actually had the ability and the motivation to make things work better without feeling compelled to adopt some crack-brained ideology to justify doing it.
 
We have a principled 100% pro-life conservative within our grasp for the White House and we’re throwing it away.
Trump scares the you know what out of me. He’s flip-flopped several times just during the campaign. And look at how his campaign has been managed-poorly. And we want to hand the keys to this guy?
He isn’t pro-life. He molds his message to fit what he thinks people want.
That scares me more than anything.
He is a progressive, liberal. He go to any measure, even dishonest ones, to tear down his opponents. National Enquirer, anyone?
It’s looking more to me like i’ll be voting for a write-in in November.
Yeah maybe that will elect Hillary.
But I’m not sure Trump would be much better.
 
meltzerboy said:
Can we go outside from time to time, to work, to buy food, to take a walk?
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Noooooooo. But if you have a back porch and feel bladder discomfort and have neighbors that aren’t too sensitive, then…

Frankly, old buddy, I’m getting a little tired of the constant election stuff myself.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Allow me to dissent slightly, Vouthon. (And I didn’t intend any unkindness in my last two posts)
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Unkindness? Your far too politely-spoken and genteel to appear unkind Ridge. Dinnae fash yersel (Scots for don’t fret) 😉
 
Vanny said:
We have a principled 100% pro-life conservative within our grasp for the White House and we’re throwing it away.
Trump scares the you know what out of me. He’s flip-flopped several times just during the campaign. And look at how his campaign has been managed-poorly. And we want to hand the keys to this guy?
He isn’t pro-life. He molds his message to fit what he thinks people want.
That scares me more than anything.
He is a progressive, liberal. He go to any measure, even dishonest ones, to tear down his opponents. National Enquirer, anyone?
It’s looking more to me like i’ll be voting for a write-in in November.
Yeah maybe that will elect Hillary.
But I’m not sure Trump would be much better.
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Possibly you don’t care about abortion on demand, even paying for it. And maybe you’re willing to “change your religion” at Hillary’s directive.

But you ought to care about how expensive Hillary is going to be. Corruption is terribly, terribly expensive. It would undoubtedly save the country money (not to mention the wars she loves) to just write out a check to Bill Clinton for a billion dollars if she wouldn’t run.
 
FollowChrist34 said:
I think your problem here, which is understandable, is that you are using logic instead of emotion. Obama was a dream, emotion, image, a celebrity. Trump is Obama II.

I predict his base won’t admit the pivot to themselves! Why do so many social conservatives, Catholics, support him now? Alongside Northeast prochoicers like Scott Brown and Giuliani? You can see the denial mode in full swing right now. Trump has successfully played the NE liberal GOP and the hardcore right base all along. They like the guy…simple as that. And the GOP WANTS TO WIN.
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The GOP wants to win and that is why they are against Trump. Simple as that.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Possibly you don’t care about abortion on demand, even paying for it. And maybe you’re willing to “change your religion” at Hillary’s directive.

But you ought to care about how expensive Hillary is going to be. Corruption is terribly, terribly expensive. It would undoubtedly save the country money (not to mention the wars she loves) to just write out a check to Bill Clinton for a billion dollars if she wouldn’t run.
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I’m complaining now while there is still a chance to turn this around. Trump is still not set in stone as the nominee.
Not voting for Hillary but Trump is every bit as abortion on demand as Hillary is. His record proves it. H’s just hiding it well, now-because he knows a lot of conservatives would not vote for him if he exposed himself as the progressive he truly is. Just my opinion. Should Trump become the nominee I will have a huge dilemma. I don’t want to lend my name to someone I personally feel is a charlatan, But Hillary would be a disaster as well.
I think there is going to be a lot of bitter disappointment should Trump win the White House among conservatives.
I’m saying this hoping I’m wrong.
 
Vanny said:
I’m complaining now while there is still a chance to turn this around. Trump is still not set in stone as the nominee.
Not voting for Hillary but Trump is every bit as abortion on demand as Hillary is. His record proves it. H’s just hiding it well, now-because he knows a lot of conservatives would not vote for him if he exposed himself as the progressive he truly is. Just my opinion. Should Trump become the nominee I will have a huge dilemma. I don’t want to lend my name to someone I personally feel is a charlatan, But Hillary would be a disaster as well.
I think there is going to be a lot of bitter disappointment should Trump win the White House among conservatives.
I’m saying this hoping I’m wrong.
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Nobody on the planet is more abortion-minded than Hillary Clinton. But one thing needs to be remembered. If Trump is elected, he can’t offend his whole constituency by being an abortion promoter or he would never get re-elected. Hillary Clinton’s constituency is pro-abortion, so there’s nothing to stop her at all.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Nobody on the planet is more abortion-minded than Hillary Clinton. But one thing needs to be remembered. If Trump is elected, he can’t offend his whole constituency by being an abortion promoter or he would never get re-elected. Hillary Clinton’s constituency is pro-abortion, so there’s nothing to stop her at all.
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Trump may not care to get re-elected. He would be 78 by his second term, so one term of supreme power may be enough for him, especially if his term is not as successful as he imagines.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Possibly you don’t care about abortion on demand, even paying for it. And maybe you’re willing to “change your religion” at Hillary’s directive.

But you ought to care about how expensive Hillary is going to be. Corruption is terribly, terribly expensive. It would undoubtedly save the country money (not to mention the wars she loves) to just write out a check to Bill Clinton for a billion dollars if she wouldn’t run.
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Please spare us the “abortion on demand is threatened by a Trump administration”, at least. 😉 I think you are intelligent enough to know full well it is not in the slightest.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Nobody on the planet is more abortion-minded than Hillary Clinton. But one thing needs to be remembered. If Trump is elected, he can’t offend his whole constituency by being an abortion promoter or he would never get re-elected. Hillary Clinton’s constituency is pro-abortion, so there’s nothing to stop her at all.
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I think the doctors making millions from abortions are more abortion minded than Hillary Clinton. And the nurses and others who work with them. Hillary is pro-choice, but she’s not making any money off that stance.
 
Vanny said:
I’m complaining now while there is still a chance to turn this around. Trump is still not set in stone as the nominee.
Not voting for Hillary but Trump is every bit as abortion on demand as Hillary is. His record proves it. **H’s just hiding it well, now-because he knows a lot of conservatives would not vote for him if he exposed himself as the progressive he truly is. ** Just my opinion. Should Trump become the nominee I will have a huge dilemma. I don’t want to lend my name to someone I personally feel is a charlatan, But Hillary would be a disaster as well.
I think there is going to be a lot of bitter disappointment should Trump win the White House among conservatives.
I’m saying this hoping I’m wrong.
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He is not hiding it! The social conservatives supporting him are doing the hiding, denying. It is a joke if you ask me. I actually think a fair amount of them are doing it consciously. (yes, they know he is prochoice)

What I have realized is that Cruz cannot overcome his negatives to win a general election, and I think his chances to get the nomination are getting slimmer. Our only hope of anyone other than Hillary in the White House is Trump. I believe he will govern to the right of her, but not that much. I do worry about his temperament and complete lack of political experience/knowledge. But I agree with those who point to Obama and what a disaster he has been with his community organizer/Senate experience. The hard left militant stuff coming out of the Obama administration is just as scary as anything Trump will drum up.
 
Lily_Bernans said:
I think the doctors making millions from abortions are more abortion minded than Hillary Clinton. And the nurses and others who work with them. Hillary is pro-choice, but she’s not making any money off that stance.
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She is getting big money support from PP in return for her avowed devotion to this evil entity.It is called special interest lining her political pocket:rolleyes:
 
Jeanne_S said:
She is getting big money support from PP in return for her avowed devotion to this evil entity.It is called special interest lining her political pocket:rolleyes:
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Interesting that with Trump the money flows the other way - he donates money to PP. What does that say about him?
 
TMC said:
Interesting that with Trump the money flows the other way - he donates money to PP. What does that say about him?
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This is the magic: Jeanne S and Giuliani BOTH support Trump.

:yeah_me:
 
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