Trump Thread (cont.)

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You have stated your position well. But does it not matter to you that all polls say he cannot beat Hillary? Are you willing to take that chance?
I’m kind of at a loss about so many people saying that Trump can beat Clinton. Although to be fair in some cases it’s actually a small number of people saying it over and over … and in some cases the people saying it are Dems.
 
I seriously doubt she had no response to Bill’s infidelities. That said, I would never publicize my response if my husband (God forbid) ever strayed – especially not if I had the world watching me.
You are right. This is what Mrs. Clinton’s reaction was:
“We have to destroy her story,” Mrs. Clinton said in 1991 of Connie Hamzy, one of the first women to come forward during her husband’s first presidential campaign, according to George Stephanopoulos, a former Clinton administration aide who described the events in his memoir, “All Too Human.” (Three people signed sworn affidavits saying Ms. Hamzy’s story was false.)
When Gennifer Flowers later surfaced, saying that she had had a long affair with Mr. Clinton, Mrs. Clinton undertook an “aggressive, explicit direction of the campaign to discredit” Ms. Flowers, according to an exhaustive biography of Mrs. Clinton, “A Woman in Charge,” by Carl Bernstein.
Mrs. Clinton referred to Monica Lewinsky, the White House intern who had an affair with the 42nd president, as a “narcissistic loony toon,” according to one of her closest confidantes, Diane D. Blair, whose diaries were released to the University of Arkansas after her death in 2000.
Ms. Lewinsky later called the comment an example of Mrs. Clinton’s impulse to “blame the woman.”
nytimes.com/2016/01/21/us/politics/90s-scandals-threaten-to-erode-hillary-clintons-strength-with-women.html?_r=0
 
Trump is not truly prolife.
I’m not sure we know his position, one way or another, on just about anything.

All we can really say is that he decided he was better off running as a Republican than as a Democrat, and then made statements accordingly.
 
I’m not sure we know his position, one way or another, on just about anything.

All we can really say is that he decided he was better off running as a Republican than as a Democrat, and then made statements accordingly.
I think people who are strongly prolife are not difficult to discern.
 
I didn’t say Obama is “shiftless”. He is the one who characterized himself as “lazy”. Said it’s his worst flaw. Maybe he lied about that, otherwise it’s not so laughable.

Nobody could possibly think of Hillary Clinton’s support of partial birth abortion and unqualified approval of Planned Parenthood without concluding that such advocacies are “immoral”. What would you call them?

I take it you have seen her “we came, we saw, Khaddaffi died”, followed by her laugh, and think it’s just a normal reaction by an empathetic person. If so, well…
Excellent points, which I suspect will remain unaddressed. :whistle:
 
Excellent points, which I suspect will remain unaddressed. :whistle:
What’s to address? Obama describes himself as lazy – so do I. Do I really think either of us are truly lazy when it comes down to it? No. But I do enjoy doin’ nothin’ on the few occasions when it’s an option. 😉

As for identifying Hillary as immoral, some of her policies may support immoral practices. Perhaps she has behaved immorally in the past (who hasn’t). Does this mean she’s “beyond good and evil”? Certainly no Catholic should make such an assertion, as this is in the realm of God.
 
Actually, I’m chuckling rather than “flaming” (which has a very different meaning in my world). As Homer Simpson once said, “They can’t ALL be the worst thing I’ve ever done.”

If you put McCain and George W side by side, I’d say there’s a clear winner – unlike when Republicans put Hillary and Obama next to one another, apparently. Trump isn’t a real Republican. I’d say that makes him fair game for everyone. Frankly, if I were Republican, my concerns about him would be far graver than they currently are.
Depends on one’s expectations of the political process. I, for one, have never expected a philosopher king at any time in my life.

Nor should Repubs expect it either. Whether Trump is a true Repub or not depends on what one thinks of as a true Repub. There are a lot of factions within the Repub party, and each has a different idea what a 'true" Repub is. The Dems don’t have much of a problem like that because they’re all in lockstep behind abortion on demand and spending, except for the rare isolated outlier like Senator Joe Manchin who is really more a Repub than he is a Dem by most measures.

But some deviations are more important than others. Trump’s deviation from some versions of Repub ideological purity aren’t really that far deviant. But regardless, he’s a “manager” not an “ideologue”, so depending on what kind of executive one wants heading up the executive branch, one might find him acceptable over the alternatives on the Dem side.

Sanders is an ideologue, and no reasonable person would deny him that epithet. He’s a “period piece” from the 1970s, and one almost expects him to be wearing bell-bottom trousers and a “Che lives!” T-shirt in the debates, though his staff probably warned him off of engaging in such sartorial idiosyncrasies. But he is true to his inner nature, one has to give him that.

Clinton is a very serious abortion promoter, a religion-changer if she finds the arm of the state sufficiently up to the task, an influence peddler and a razor-wire hawk. Of those characteristics, Dems should reject her for all but one, because the last three are as far from usual Dem ideological positions as Trump is from those of, say, the “National Review”-type Repubs. She’s actually further away from most purported Democrat ideology by quite a bit. But because she supports the only position that’s supported with near-religious fervor in the Dem party, abortion on demand, that “trumps” her deviations from party orthodoxy in all other ways. Even conducting aggressive wars, the “unforgivable sin” of Dem ideology, is forgiven her.

Abortion on demand is the cuckoo bird in the Democrat cowbird’s nest. The former shoves all other ideological tenets out of the party nest, to the degree that it’s the single thing the party actually stands for. But since Dems are fine with it, they are capable of singular unity, and will be in the general election.
 
There is no possibility whatever that Hillary Clinton is prolife. She would probably take the assertion as an insult, particularly if said in front of one of her NARAL or Planned Parenthood supporters.

Remember, she re-endorsed PP even after the sale of baby parts was revealed. And her mocking and laughing at the torture-killing of Khaddaffi was chilling. What all, one wonders, does she intend to make us change in our religion in order to suit her goals? We don’t know, and can’t know why, exactly, her conscience is so dead. But what we can know is that it’s beyond foolish for anyone to think such a person could possibly care about them or their well-being. If anyone could be described as “beyond good and evil”, it’s Hillary Clinton.

But people do that because they somehow persuade themselves that they’ll be among the few who remain standing after the ones they disdain are blown down.
After the United States took out Saddam Hussein in Iraq, we got a call from Khaddaffi and he invited us to come and collect his nuclear weapons program materials. AND from that point on, he became an information and espionage agent for the United States.

So, Hillary Clinton killed our own agent.

[There are rumors to the effect that she had him killed because she got a $2.4 million payoff from Qatar. Khaddaffi was against the ISIS or other extremists and had to be eliminated.]

frontpagemag.com/fpm/250798/killing-qaddafi-hillarys-secret-role-matthew-vadum

excerpt:

Some may, quite understandably, wish to take intelligence reports supplied by a sketchy foreign power with a grain of salt, but those who follow Libyan affairs have long known that there was no compelling U.S. national security-related justification in 2011 to remove Qaddafi as Libya’s leader.

Libya didn’t matter anymore. A decade earlier the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001 led to an epiphany on Qaddafi’s part. The Libyan strongman saw the writing on the wall as Islamists launched operations on Qaddafi’s home turf and carried out attacks directed at him personally.

With Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein easily overthrown by a U.S.-led coalition, Qaddafi’s allies in the old Soviet bloc consigned to the dustbin of history, and his fair-weather friends in the Arab world unwilling to help him deal with devastating U.S. sanctions, Qaddafi recognized his growing political impotence.

He renounced terrorism and decided to dismantle his weapons of mass destruction program in 2003. Qaddafi even did the unthinkable, signing on --at least nominally-- to the U.S.-led Global War on Terror. He promoted his son’s charitable foundation to augment his influence and revamp his reputation outside Libya.

Qaddafi so impressed George W. Bush’s administration that the U.S. government restored full diplomatic relations with the former pariah nation in 2006. As then-Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said at the time, Libya had provided “excellent cooperation in response to common global threats faced by the civilized world since September 11, 2001.”

It may be a stretch to describe the post-9/11 Qaddafi as a friend of the United States but it is probably accurate to say that at worst he had become a defanged frenemy of the U.S. Rendered largely irrelevant by the events of the day, the dictator who retained the risibly grandiose official state title of Brotherly Leader and Guide of the Revolution of Libya was humiliated and emasculated.

But getting Qaddafi out of the way was long a part of President Obama’s plan to help the Islamist movement in Northern Africa and the Middle East.

Qaddafi was viewed as unsympathetic to the resurgent jihadists in his region and so he had to be eliminated.

Hillary Clinton carried out the hit and today Libya, with the assistance of the U.S. taxpayer, is well on its way to becoming a member in good standing of the Islamic Caliphate.***
 
As for identifying Hillary as immoral, some of her policies may support immoral practices. Perhaps she has behaved immorally in the past (who hasn’t). Does this mean she’s “beyond good and evil”? Certainly no Catholic should make such an assertion, as this is in the realm of God.
No, the term “beyond good and evil” is in the realm of Nietzsche, who coined the term to denominate someone who has subjective 'values" in lieu of “moral principles”.

Are Hillary Clinton’s actions and positions for the future subjectively evil? (evil in her mind) No one can know but her. But they are indisputably evil objectively.

And so, Catholics who go to vote have to ask themselves whether they, too, are willing to participate in objective evil for the sake of their subjective values.
 
Now THAT was a great reply! I learned something and that’s probably a second or third time cause I ain’t had much learnin’! :tiphat:
 
Depends on one’s expectations of the political process. I, for one, have never expected a philosopher king at any time in my life.
Your words recall St. Thomas More’s Utopia to mind for me, namely Book I. Have you ever read it?

The reader is presented with two different approaches to the question of counselling kings and pursuing a public career while retaining a sense of principle: that of the character Raphael Hythloday, who believes that there is absolutely no point in becoming the counsellor of a monarch because the only result will be corruption of oneself and one’s pure ideas. He insists that the social order cannot be gradually reformed through practical compromise: one has to go straight for the “root” problem and abolish private property, along with the primacy of money, to achieve the “best state of the commonwealth” or ideal ‘utopia’ (Thomas More of course coined the term in this text) where there are no rich and poor. In this respect, Hythloday sides with Plato (the great ancient philosopher) who believed that ‘philosophers must become kings or kings philosophers’ for any real change to occur. In More’s words, Hythloday argues:

“…I’m quite convinced that you’ll never get a fair distribution of goods, or a satisfactory organization of human life, until you abolish private property altogether. So long as it exists, the vast majority of the human race, and the vastly superior part of it, will go on labouring under a burden of poverty, hardship, and worry…”

Against this view, you have that of a fictionalized version of St. Thomas More himself, called ‘Morus’ who advocates an idea more in keeping with the Roman statesman Cicero: he defends the active life of public service and the idea of compromising, without betraying, one’s ideas to gradually reform the system from within. Again in More’s words, ‘Morus’ contends:

“…‘That is just what I was saying’, Raphael replied. ‘There is no place for philosophy in the councils of kings.’
‘Yes it is true,’ I said, ‘that there is no place for this school philosophy which supposes every topic suitable for every occasion. But there is another philosophy, better suited for the role of citizen, that takes its cue, adapts itself to the drama at hand and acts its part neatly and appropriately. This is the philosophy for you to use. Otherwise, when a comedy by Plautus is being played, and the household slaves are cracking trivial jokes together, you come onstage in the garb of a philosopher and repeat Seneca’s speech to Nero from the Octavia. That’s how things go in the commonwealth, and in the councils of princes. If you cannot pluck up bad ideas by the root, or cure long-standing evils to your heart’s content, you must not therefore abandon the commonwealth. Don’t give up the ship in a storm because you cannot hold back the winds…. Instead, by an indirect approach, you must strive and struggle as best you can to handle everything tactfully – and thus what you cannot turn to good, you may at least make as little bad as possible. For it is impossible to make everything good unless all men are good, and that I don’t expect to see for quite a few years yet.’…”

Book II then amounts, basically, to a description of Hythloday’s imaginary “ideal” state called ‘Utopia’. The text is ambiguous because we are not told who is right and wrong: Hythloday or Morus. Most scholars see it as a veiled social critique of the inequities of Tudor English society, as well as a warning that while one should ‘imagine’ a better world you need to also beware of an abstract commitment to ideas, no matter how good they might seem in theory, devoid of pragmatic considerations. Hence the irony in the book and the humour. It undercuts the books message and makes it highly ambiguous.

The essence of Utopia can be understood through More’s analogy to the stage-play: Is it better to work within the “stage-play” that is the state, playing your part, and doing more good or is it better to reject the play (the present corrupt social order) entirely, root and branch? Hythloday argues in the text that ‘compromise’ and ‘playing’ your social role only leads to the corruption of the true philosopher: “while I try to cure others of madness, I’ll be raving along with them myself.” “There is no place for philosophy in the councils of kings” (More, 32-35). Morus rebuts with measured pragmatism, advocating for “another philosophy… that takes its cue, adapts itself to the drama at hand, and acts its part neatly and appropriately” (Baker-Smith, 126; More, 35-36). Despite the limitations of current institutions, Morus says we must aim to “make as little bad as possible” (More, 36)
 
Abortion on demand is the cuckoo bird in the Democrat cowbird’s nest. The former shoves all other ideological tenets out of the party nest, to the degree that it’s the single thing the party actually stands for. But since Dems are fine with it, they are capable of singular unity, and will be in the general election.
Abortion is far from the biggest issue on the Democratic platform, except, perhaps, to pro-life Catholics. If you look at a Democratic Party website (e.g., www.democrats.org), these are the major issues that are listed:

Civil Rights
Education
Energy Independence
Environment
Health Care
Immigration Reform
Jobs and the Economy
National Security
Open Government
Retirement Security
Science and Technology
Voting Rights

I may have missed something, but I saw no mention of abortion among those policy issues. Not only did abortion not push all other policies out of the nest, but it wasn’t even in the nest.

If you look at the GOP platform (gop.com/platform), the following issues are listed:

Restoring the American dream: Rebuilding the economy and creating jobs
We the People: A restoration of constitutional government
America’s natural resources: Energy, agriculture and the environment
Reforming government to serve the people
Renewing American values to build healthy families, great schools and safe neighborhoods
American exceptionalism

In that platform document (which I reviewed), there are three paragraphs in 54 pages about abortion. The GOP is against abortion, but to call it a major policy of the party is misleading.
 
I’m not sure we know his position, one way or another, on just about anything.

All we can really say is that he decided he was better off running as a Republican than as a Democrat, and then made statements accordingly.
Sometimes I think he forgets to make the necessary adjustments. 😉
 
What’s to address? Obama describes himself as lazy – so do I. Do I really think either of us are truly lazy when it comes down to it? No. But I do enjoy doin’ nothin’ on the few occasions when it’s an option. 😉

As for identifying Hillary as immoral, some of her policies may support immoral practices. Perhaps she has behaved immorally in the past (who hasn’t). Does this mean she’s “beyond good and evil”? Certainly no Catholic should make such an assertion, as this is in the realm of God.
I agree with you about Hillary. God will judge her and all the other candidates. We, individually, are just trying to determine who would make the best president, not judging them redemption worthy or not.

And, if Obama characterizes himself as “lazy” then I guess he is. I am lazy, too. Sometimes work feels like ploughing ten fields to me. Maybe more. And I’ve come to a point where I actually hate writing parts of my dissertation.
 
Abortion is far from the biggest issue on the Democratic platform, except, perhaps, to pro-life Catholics. If you look at a Democratic Party website (e.g., www.democrats.org), these are the major issues that are listed:

Civil Rights
Education
Energy Independence
Environment
Health Care
Immigration Reform
Jobs and the Economy
National Security
Open Government
Retirement Security
Science and Technology
Voting Rights

I may have missed something, but I saw no mention of abortion among those policy issues. Not only did abortion not push all other policies out of the nest, but it wasn’t even in the nest.

If you look at the GOP platform (gop.com/platform), the following issues are listed:

Restoring the American dream: Rebuilding the economy and creating jobs
We the People: A restoration of constitutional government
America’s natural resources: Energy, agriculture and the environment
Reforming government to serve the people
Renewing American values to build healthy families, great schools and safe neighborhoods
American exceptionalism

In that platform document (which I reviewed), there are three paragraphs in 54 pages about abortion. The GOP is against abortion, but to call it a major policy of the party is misleading.
Thank you for posting all of that. As example of my own laziness, I looked at the party platforms, saw how much there was, and decided to skip reading it. :eek: Not good, I know.
 
Abortion is far from the biggest issue on the Democratic platform, except, perhaps, to pro-life Catholics. If you look at a Democratic Party website (e.g., www.democrats.org), these are the major issues that are listed:

Civil Rights
Education
Energy Independence
Environment
Health Care
Immigration Reform
Jobs and the Economy
National Security
Open Government
Retirement Security
Science and Technology
Voting Rights

I may have missed something, but I saw no mention of abortion among those policy issues. Not only did abortion not push all other policies out of the nest, but it wasn’t even in the nest.

.
Is there some reason why the Democratic Party Platform; the official credo of the party, is ignored here? Abortion has been a plank in the platform for decades. The last one (2012)put it this way:

“The Democratic Party strongly and unequivocally supports Roe v. Wade and a woman’s right to make decisions regarding her pregnancy, including a safe and legal abortion, regardless of ability to pay. We oppose any and all efforts to weaken or undermine that right”

Now, as to the above list of asserted Democrat “values”, one has to ask oneself just how much progress has been made on any of those in the last 7 1/2 years. Indeed, virtually every one of them has worsened during the Democrat administration. Let’s look a bit:

Civil Rights…Homosexual marriage, suing the Lutheran Church and Little Sisters of the Poor to make them violate conscience.

Education. …Continued decline in quality, and Hillary opposes vouchers for private schools.

Energy Independence… Obama’s “war on coal” is just about won. Fracking forbidden on government land. Blocked Keystone Pipeline.

Environment… EPA spill into the Colorado River and WOTUS, putting the army in charge of every river, creek, spring and farm pond in America.

Health Care. …The disaster of Obamacare.

Immigration Reform… Open borders, nothing else.

Jobs and the Economy…Lowest labor participation rate in 40 years. Growth rate on the verge of going negative again.

National Security…Turned Iraq, Egypt and Libya over to terrorist organizations. Russian conquest of about half of Ukraine. Importation of terrorists into the U.S.

Open Government…Withholding over 30,000 Clinton documents. Jonathan Gruber’s “true” statement about Obamacare deceptions.

Retirement Security…No difference at all. Obama did propose government takeover of IRAs and 401ks, but it didn’t get anywhere.

Science and Technology…No change.

Voting Rights…No change.

At some point, one really has to admit those “values” are not actually held by the party. They’re just cant.

But Obama has put two abortionist justices on the Supreme Court. He has done that.
 
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