Trump Thread (cont.)

[DeniseNY]

Is there some reason why the Democratic Party Platform; the official credo of the party, is ignored here? Abortion has been a plank in the platform for decades. The last one (2012)put it this way:

“The Democratic Party strongly and unequivocally supports Roe v. Wade and a woman’s right to make decisions regarding her pregnancy, including a safe and legal abortion, regardless of ability to pay. We oppose any and all efforts to weaken or undermine that right”

Now, as to the above list of asserted Democrat “values”, one has to ask oneself just how much progress has been made on any of those in the last 7 1/2 years. Indeed, virtually every one of them has worsened during the Democrat administration. Let’s look a bit:

Civil Rights…Homosexual marriage, suing the Lutheran Church and Little Sisters of the Poor to make them violate conscience.

Education. …Continued decline in quality, and Hillary opposes vouchers for private schools.

Energy Independence… Obama’s “war on coal” is just about won. Fracking forbidden on government land. Blocked Keystone Pipeline.

Environment… EPA spill into the Colorado River and WOTUS, putting the army in charge of every river, creek, spring and farm pond in America.

Health Care. …The disaster of Obamacare.

Immigration Reform… Open borders, nothing else.

Jobs and the Economy…Lowest labor participation rate in 40 years. Growth rate on the verge of going negative again.

National Security…Turned Iraq, Egypt and Libya over to terrorist organizations. Russian conquest of about half of Ukraine. Importation of terrorists into the U.S.

Open Government…Withholding over 30,000 Clinton documents. Jonathan Gruber’s “true” statement about Obamacare deceptions.

Retirement Security…No difference at all. Obama did propose government takeover of IRAs and 401ks, but it didn’t get anywhere.

Science and Technology…No change.

Voting Rights…No change.

At some point, one really has to admit those “values” are not actually held by the party. They’re just cant.

But Obama has put two abortionist justices on the Supreme Court. He has done that.

Minor details, Ridge. Minor details

 

[Ridgerunner]

I agree with you about Hillary. God will judge her and all the other candidates. We, individually, are just trying to determine who would make the best president, not judging them redemption worthy or not.

.

God is not registered to vote in this election. We are. As yet, I have not even seen an attempt on here to justify a vote for Hillary Clinton other than to support her position on abortion. I have certainly seen those.

We are not only entitled to vote against those who promote intrinsic evils, we are required to do so unless there are equal or greater grave proportionate evils that overbalance them.

And nobody on here has yet so much as posited a single evil they assert as proportionate to abortion.

We really can’t morally throw our support behind intrinsic evil and blame God for not staying our hand. And that’s particularly so when we can’t give a single reason for doing so.

 

[chero23]

God is not registered to vote in this election. We are. As yet, I have not even seen an attempt on here to justify a vote for Hillary Clinton other than to support her position on abortion. I have certainly seen those.

We are not only entitled to vote against those who promote intrinsic evils, we are required to do so unless there are equal or greater grave proportionate evils that overbalance them.

And nobody on here has yet so much as posited a single evil they assert as proportionate to abortion.

We really can’t morally throw our support behind intrinsic evil and blame God for not staying our hand. And that’s particularly so when we can’t give a single reason for doing so.

Are you sure every single person who has replied and supported Hillary has done so, by supporting her abortion stance?

I doubt that is the case.

I wont vote this cycle, but if I did and if it was between her and trump or Cruz, i would vote for her and it would not be bc of her abortion stance.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

God is not registered to vote in this election. We are. As yet, I have not even seen an attempt on here to justify a vote for Hillary Clinton other than to support her position on abortion. I have certainly seen those.

We are not only entitled to vote against those who promote intrinsic evils, we are required to do so unless there are equal or greater grave proportionate evils that overbalance them.

And nobody on here has yet so much as posited a single evil they assert as proportionate to abortion.

We really can’t morally throw our support behind intrinsic evil and blame God for not staying our hand. And that’s particularly so when we can’t give a single reason for doing so.

Here’s what Hillary stands for:

cbsnews.com/media/hillary-clinton-what-does-she-stand-for-election-2016/2/

I think the rights and lives of people who are already born, already grown, are just as important as the rights of the unborn. Not more, but not less. They can’t be abandoned, and I won’t restrict myself to being a “one issue voter.”

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Are you sure every single person who has replied and supported Hillary has done so, by supporting her abortion stance?

I doubt that is the case.

I wont vote this cycle, but if I did and if it was between her and trump or Cruz, i would vote for her and it would not be bc of her abortion stance.

I don’t like her abortion stance, but I will vote for her.

 

[Erich]

Not feeling the Bern?

Um… no.

 

[Morwenna]

Is there some reason why the Democratic Party Platform; the official credo of the party, is ignored here? Abortion has been a plank in the platform for decades. The last one (2012)put it this way:

“The Democratic Party strongly and unequivocally supports Roe v. Wade and a woman’s right to make decisions regarding her pregnancy, including a safe and legal abortion, regardless of ability to pay. We oppose any and all efforts to weaken or undermine that right”

Even if one chooses to ignore the Party Platform for some reason, abortion rights (often couched as “reproductive rights”) are all over the Democratic Party website:

ELECT DEMOCRATS WHO WILL FIGHT FOR REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS

On the 43rd anniversary of Roe v. Wade, say you’re committed to electing Democrats who will protect every woman’s right to make her own health care decisions

my.democrats.org/page/s/roe-v-wade-2016

DNC CHAIR STATEMENT IN HONOR OF PLANNED PARENTHOOD’S DAY OF SOLIDARITY DECEMBER 05, 2015

democrats.org/Post/dnc-chair-statement-in-honor-of-planned-parenthoods-day-of-solidarity

OFFICIAL DEMOCRATIC PARTY PLATFORM SURVEY
DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE

Which Elements Of The Radical Republican Agenda Are Most Dangerous To America’s Future? (Please Choose One)*

Dismantling The Affordable Care Act

Restricting Women’s Reproductive Rights

Reversing Marriage Equality And Other LGBT Civil Rights Gutting Social Security And Medicare

Opposing A Minimum Wage Increase

Obstructing Comprehensive Immigration Reform

Packing The U.S. Supreme Court With Far-Right Ideologues

my.democrats.org/page/s/convention-survey-and-kit

STAND UP FOR WOMEN’S HEALTH AND REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS

Mitt Romney and many of his fellow Republicans are backing Mississippi’s extreme “Personhood Amendment” which would ban abortion under all circumstances—including rape, incest, and cases where the mother’s life is at risk—and outlaw common forms of birth control. And if they win in Mississippi, they’ll be taking the fight all across the country.

We can’t afford to let Republicans turn back the clock on women’s health and the right to choose. Join President Obama and stand up for women’s health and reproductive rights now!

my.democrats.org/page/s/stand-up-for-reproductive-rights

These are just a few of many examples. Anyone who doubts this will find his/her doubts quickly erased with a simple Google search.

 

[chero23]

I don’t like her abortion stance, but I will vote for her.

I wont vote, and I don’t think anything will change between now and November that will make me run to vote.

Her stance on abortion is not adequate, but that is not all she stands for. The woman by all stretch of the imagination is no, sacred politician bc the woman has trucks and trucks of skeletons in her closet, but considering who the republicans might put up, she would be the best bet.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Are you sure every single person who has replied and supported Hillary has done so, by supporting her abortion stance?

I doubt that is the case.

I wont vote this cycle, but if I did and if it was between her and trump or Cruz, i would vote for her and it would not be bc of her abortion stance.

Perhaps, but I don’t claim every single person who votes for Hillary will be doing it to support abortion. Some people still think the Dem party of 1962 is the Dem party of today. It’s not by a long way, but some do still think so.

And some would not recognize her face from that of Michelle Fields.

But with few exceptions, everybody who votes for Hillary will know they’re voting for abortion. She makes that plain.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

I wont vote, and I don’t think anything will change between now and November that will make me run to vote.

Her stance on abortion is not adequate, but that is not all she stands for. The woman by all stretch of the imagination is no, sacred politician bc the woman has trucks and trucks of skeletons in her closet, but considering who the republicans might put up, she would be the best bet.

Trump is Trump. That alone precludes me from voting for him.

Cruz is too extreme and not willing to cooperate. He’s the “it’s my way or the highway” guy, and that doesn’t work in politics. Politics is about compromise. His own party hates him.

Kasich just isn’t experienced enough, especially in foreign affairs. Clinton might not have been the best SoS, but she’s experienced. Kasich is not. And, he allows himself to be pushed around.

Surely the Repubs. could have come up with someone better than these three.

 

[estesbob]

Here’s what Hillary stands for:

cbsnews.com/media/hillary-clinton-what-does-she-stand-for-election-2016/2/

I think the rights and lives of people who are already born, already grown, are just as important as the rights of the unborn. Not more, but not less. They can’t be abandoned, and I won’t restrict myself to being a “one issue voter.”

As always we should turn to the Church:
**
The first task of the legislator is to strive to make the legal system protect human life from the moment of fertilization** The law negates itself, or becomes only a force imposed on those who are weaker by whoever has power, if it does not protect human dignity, of which the right to life is the first and most elementary expression.

It should be stated clearly that the unborn “must be respected and treated as a human person” (4) and that his or her rights constitute the real reason for the obligation of protection which is incumbent on States. Because the purpose of all law is the promotion of human dignity (“hominum causa omne jus constitutum est”), the iniquity of pro-abortion laws is not only derived from their consequences, (5) but also from the destruction of the very concept of law. Therefore it is necessary to denounce vigorously and decisively the injustice of pro-abortion laws.
priestsforlife.org/articles/2641-in-the-service-of-life#4

How does a Catholic rationalize voting for Hillary in light of this?

 

[Ridgerunner]

Here’s what Hillary stands for:

cbsnews.com/media/hillary-clinton-what-does-she-stand-for-election-2016/2/

I think the rights and lives of people who are already born, already grown, are just as important as the rights of the unborn. Not more, but not less. They can’t be abandoned, and I won’t restrict myself to being a “one issue voter.”

Who in the world is proposing the abandonment of people who are born? Nobody. Total straw man. Well, let me qualify that a little. In some states dominated by Democrats, active euthanasia is deemed acceptable. So much for the “lives of the born”.

Let’s think “one issue voter” through. Let’s say the “one issue” is an intrinsic evil, one that the Church says we cannot morally support. In the absence of any real issues that anyone has concrete proposals for, and certainly none as evil as abortion, can one truly dismiss it as a “one issue” voter thing? Would any civilized person say that if the “one issue” was extermination of all the Jews in this country, or enslavement of some ethnic group, one is somehow excused from opposing it because it’s “one issue”?

Of course not. Condemnation of “one issue voting” is just a veil behind which too many hide their actual support for abortion. It can have wider application. Just take some horrific evil, support it, then claim its opponents are “one issue voters” because they’re willing to oppose it.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Trump is Trump. That alone precludes me from voting for him.

Cruz is too extreme and not willing to cooperate. He’s the “it’s my way or the highway” guy, and that doesn’t work in politics. Politics is about compromise. His own party hates him.

Kasich just isn’t experienced enough, especially in foreign affairs. Clinton might not have been the best SoS, but she’s experienced. Kasich is not. And, he allows himself to be pushed around.

Surely the Repubs. could have come up with someone better than these three.

I don’t much doubt the Repubs could have come up with some better candidates. I think they did, but they didn’t win.

But Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders? A person under FBI investigation for who knows what all, and a pipe-dream socialist?

Trump, Cruz and Kasich are nothing to write home about, but none of them are influence peddlers, war-starters or Soviet Union honeymooners.

 

[Thorolfr]

Elton John and his longtime boyfriend, David Furnish, entered a civil partnership on Dec. 21, 2005, in England under a law the country had just enacted granting recognition to same-sex couples. The congratulations poured in as the two men appeared at a joyous ceremony at Windsor Guildhall, amid a crush of paparazzi. Donald J. Trump, who had known the couple for years, took to his blog to express his excitement.

“I know both of them, and they get along wonderfully. It’s a marriage that’s going to work,” Mr. Trump wrote, adding: “I’m very happy for them. If two people dig each other, they dig each other.”

nytimes.com/2016/04/23/us/politics/donald-trump-gay-rights.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=Trending&region=CColumn

It’s good to know that Donald Trump doesn’t mind same-sex marriage.

 

[mary_bobo]

Is there some reason why the Democratic Party Platform; the official credo of the party, is ignored here? Abortion has been a plank in the platform for decades. The last one (2012)put it this way:

“The Democratic Party strongly and unequivocally supports Roe v. Wade and a woman’s right to make decisions regarding her pregnancy, including a safe and legal abortion, regardless of ability to pay. We oppose any and all efforts to weaken or undermine that right”

Now, as to the above list of asserted Democrat “values”, one has to ask oneself just how much progress has been made on any of those in the last 7 1/2 years. Indeed, virtually every one of them has worsened during the Democrat administration. Let’s look a bit:

Civil Rights…Homosexual marriage, suing the Lutheran Church and Little Sisters of the Poor to make them violate conscience.

Education. …Continued decline in quality, and Hillary opposes vouchers for private schools.

Energy Independence… Obama’s “war on coal” is just about won. Fracking forbidden on government land. Blocked Keystone Pipeline.

Environment… EPA spill into the Colorado River and WOTUS, putting the army in charge of every river, creek, spring and farm pond in America.

Health Care. …The disaster of Obamacare.

Immigration Reform… Open borders, nothing else.

Jobs and the Economy…Lowest labor participation rate in 40 years. Growth rate on the verge of going negative again.

National Security…Turned Iraq, Egypt and Libya over to terrorist organizations. Russian conquest of about half of Ukraine. Importation of terrorists into the U.S.

Open Government…Withholding over 30,000 Clinton documents. Jonathan Gruber’s “true” statement about Obamacare deceptions.

Retirement Security…No difference at all. Obama did propose government takeover of IRAs and 401ks, but it didn’t get anywhere.

Science and Technology…No change.

Voting Rights…No change.

At some point, one really has to admit those “values” are not actually held by the party. They’re just cant.

But Obama has put two abortionist justices on the Supreme Court. He has done that.

 

[Ridgerunner]

nytimes.com/2016/04/23/us/politics/donald-trump-gay-rights.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=Trending&region=CColumn

It’s good to know that Donald Trump doesn’t mind same-sex marriage.

That ship has already left the dock and is so far out to sea you can’t even see its smoke trail.

Hillary supports it too, but as I said, we’re stuck with it unless a Repub gets to appoint two justices to the supreme Court.

Trump might or might not appoint pro-life, pro-marriage judges. Cruz almost certainly won’t. Hillary Clinton absolutely will appoint pro-abortion, anti-marriage judges.

 

[_Abyssinia]

nytimes.com/2016/04/23/us/politics/donald-trump-gay-rights.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=Trending&region=CColumn

It’s good to know that Donald Trump doesn’t mind same-sex marriage.

The pro same-sex marriage Human Rights Campaign says Trump “opposes nationwide marriage equality” - hrc.org/2016RepublicanFacts/donald-trump

 

[Ridgerunner]

Goodbye. Work to do. Be of good cheer!

 

[_Abyssinia]

That ship has already left the dock and is so far out to sea you can’t even see its smoke trail.

Hillary supports it too, but as I said, we’re stuck with it unless a Repub gets to appoint two justices to the supreme Court.

Trump might or might not appoint pro-life, pro-marriage judges. Cruz almost certainly won’t. Hillary Clinton absolutely will appoint pro-abortion, anti-marriage judges.

Trump has said at least two times now that a list of names will be released of a selection of judges that he would pick from for the Supreme Court. I’m very intrigued to see what judges would be on it.

 

[Peter_J]

I wont vote this cycle, but if I did and if it was between her and trump or Cruz, i would vote for her and it would not be bc of her abortion stance.

It isn’t, though, at least not yet. There’s still the possibility of a moderate Republican … presumably Kasich.