Trump's stunning abdication of leadership comes as pandemic worsens

[Petra202]

What is unhealthy (and false) is declaring pregnancy an unhealthy state! NOT!

 

[zsiga]

OK, my grandfather has the condition which to our ability to measure results in a temporary state of brain death but from which everyone so far has recovered.

So we don’t KNOW that he will recover, but we are very sure.

However, his condition is labeled brain death, so would it be ok for me to give him medication that will cause his heart to stop? Or maybe just put a plastic bag over his head?

Everyone has recovered? How long did it take for them to recover? It needs to be a shorter time than the decomposing will start. A few hours? A few days? Sure you can wait a few a hours, if EVERYONE recovered within a few hours.

Just considering issues of brain death, as you used it for a justification for abortion.

Abortions in the early stages have nothing to do with brain death - because there is no brain yet. The problem of brain death is only important if there IS a brain.

 

[BT3241]

The virus is the elephant in the room had it been handled differently a different out come was likely. Big mistake that was costly.

 

[zsiga]

What is unhealthy (and false) is declaring pregnancy an unhealthy state! NOT!

Morning sickness? Extra weight to carry, which is very unhealthy? Before Calcium tablets were developed, the woman lost at least one tooth with every child? Is that “healthy”?

Just look up “pregnancy problems” in the web. Lots and lots of problems.

 

[Annie]

Abortions in the early stages have nothing to do with brain death - because there is no brain yet. The problem of brain death is only important if there IS a brain.

As I said before, a human CELL or a bunch of human CELLS cannot be rightfully called a PERSON.

There can be no person without a sufficiently developed and functional brain. A freshly dead human still has some parts of her body functioning to a certain degree. But her brain is dead. And death is declared when the brain stops functioning. What is so strange about this concept?

The point is that the reason there is no brain is that the new human life has not yet developed the brain. In the same way, humans do not develop kneecaps until they about 6 years after birth.

However, the beginnings of the brain, the neural plate, forms 2 weeks after conception.

a “person”

Person is a word that we define. In religious terms, as mentioned earlier, angels, devils are persons. You don’t believe in them, but in legal terms, corporations are legal persons, yet they have no brains of their own. In philosophy, the word has another meaning. And once upon a time in the US, slaves were considered only 3/5 of a person.

Very malleable term, isn’t it? Convenient, one might say.

Now, human is the biological signifier of an individual member of the species homo sapiens.

The question then becomes: is it wrong for us to kill individual members of of the species homo sapiens, or is it wrong for us to kill those entities we haphazardly consider persons?

Sure you can wait a few a hours, if EVERYONE recovered within a few hours.

As to this, all the people have recovered soon enough that they were able to recover fully.

If I wait a few hours, he will recover, and I won’t get the money. He could live for 20 more years!

But since he is brain dead, I should be able to suffocate him now without murdering him, right?

 

[F_Marturana]

Annie, brain dead people are dead. There is no recovery from brain death. You cannot suffocate a brain dead person because they cannot breathe on their own.

I think you might mean brain injured, or vegetative state.

 

[Annie]

It was a hypothetical question; a thought experiment, if you will.

 

[Victoria33]

He just got the vaccine and they are going to distribute it to millions. This hardly sounds like abdicating leadership.

 

[JonNC]

You do not directly benefit from the existence of libraries if you do not use them, but some of your tax dollars are spent on them. You might not personally use the road system in the rural areas, and yet, your tax dollars are spent on maintaining the road system. You might never need the help of the police, and your tax dollars are spent on maintaining the police force. Some tax dollars are spent on education. But if you are an adult, you don’t need the school system. Some tax dollars even go to religious private schools. Churches are exempt from paying taxes. But they benefit from the tax dollars spent on common welfare.

None of these, however, are rights. Government can choose to eliminate them. Further, none of these are or should be funded by the general government as there is no constitutional mandate for them. Even Churches do not have a constitutional protection for tax exempt status.

If the insurance would be readily available, it would solve this conundrum. But we have Medicaid for those who have no other form of insurance. Shall we get rid of that, too?

Medicaid should be a state choice, not a general government one, but that said, it should not cover elective procedures, which in roughly 95% of cases, abortion is.

And yes, pregnancy is an abnormal and unhealthy state of affairs. It is not a disease - per se - but it is an unhealthy condition. And some people do not want it.

This is perhaps the most unscientific statement I have seen in months. Procreation is one of the fundamental factors of a living organism.

By the way, if there would be no tax dollars spent on abortions, would you support the women’s right to have one? Serious question. Please answer.

I recognize that the SCOTUS has decided there is a “right” to an abortion. It’s the law of the land.

 

[Cathoholic]

Zsiga . . . .

If you can demonstrate the existence of these entities, we can continue.

What do you consider a “demonstration” of the spiritual realm?

 

[Cathoholic]

Victoria33 . . .

He just got the vaccine and they are going to distribute it to millions. This hardly sounds like abdicating leadership.

Yep. President Trump’s leadership and his plan: “Operation Warp Speed” has been an amazing result for those that want a vaccine.

Nothing like this ever in history.

Trump could cure cancer, and his detractors would still carp.
Which is also in a different sense “amazing”.

.

Fact Sheet: Explaining Operation Warp Speed​

What’s the goal?​

Operation Warp Speed’s goal is to produce and deliver 300 million doses of safe and effective vaccines with the initial doses available by January 2021, as part of a broader strategy to accelerate the development, manufacturing, and distribution of COVID-19 vaccines, therapeutics, and diagnostics (collectively known as countermeasures).

How will the goal be accomplished?​

By investing in and coordinating countermeasure development, OWS will allow countermeasures such as a vaccine to be delivered to patients more rapidly while adhering to standards for safety and efficacy.

Who’s working on Operation Warp Speed?​

OWS is a partnership among components of the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), including the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the National Institutes of Health (NIH), and the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority (BARDA), and the Department of Defense (DoD). OWS engages with private firms and other federal agencies, including the Department of Agriculture, the Department of Energy, and the Department of Veterans Affairs. It will coordinate existing HHS-wide efforts, including the NIH’s Accelerating COVID-19 Therapeutic Interventions and Vaccines (ACTIV) partnership, NIH’s Rapid Acceleration of Diagnostics (RADx) initiative, and work by BARDA.

What’s the plan and what’s happened so far?​

Development​

To accelerate development while maintaining standards for safety and efficacy, OWS has been selecting the most promising countermeasure candidates and providing coordinated government support.

Protocols for the demonstration of safety and efficacy are being aligned, which will allow the trials to proceed more quickly, and the protocols for the trials will be overseen by the federal government, as opposed to traditional public-private partnerships, in which pharmaceutical companies decide on their own protocols. Rather than eliminating steps from traditional development timelines, steps will proceed simultaneously, such as starting manufacturing of the vaccine at industrial scale well before the demonstration of vaccine efficacy and safety as happens normally. This increases the financial risk, but not the product risk.

Select actions to support OWS vaccine and therapeutic development so far include: . . .

1/2 . . .

 

[Cathoholic]

March​

March 30: HHS announced $456 million in funds for Johnson & Johnson’s (Janssen) candidate vaccine. Phase 1 clinical trials began in Belgium on July 24th and in the U.S on July 27th. Janssen’s large-scale Phase 3 clinical trial began on September 22, 2020, making them the fourth OWS candidate to enter Phase 3 clinical trials in the United States. Up to 60,000 volunteers will be enrolled in the trial at up to nearly 215 clinical research sites in the United States and internationally.

April​

April 16: HHS made (Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.) up to $483 million in support available for Moderna’s candidate vaccine, which began Phase 1 trials on March 16 and received a fast-track designation from FDA. This agreement was expanded (Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.) on July 26 to include an additional $472 million to support late-stage clinical development, including the expanded Phase 3 study of the company’s mRNA vaccine, which began on July 27th.

May​

May 21: HHS announced up to $1.2 billion in support for AstraZeneca’s candidate vaccine, developed in conjunction with the University of Oxford. The agreement is to make available at least 300 million doses of the vaccine for the United States, with the first doses delivered as early as October 2020, if the product successfully receives FDA EUA or licensure. AstraZeneca’s large-scale Phase 3 clinical trial began on August 31, 2020.

July​

July 7: HHS announced $450 million in funds to support the large-scale manufacturing of Regeneron’s COVID-19 investigational anti-viral antibody treatment, REGN-COV2. This agreement is the first of a number of OWS awards to support potential therapeutics all the way through to manufacturing. As part of the manufacturing demonstration project, doses of the medicine will be packaged and ready to ship immediately if clinical trials are successful and FDA grants EUA or licensure.

July 7: HHS announced $1.6 billion in funds to support the large-scale manufacturing of Novavax’s vaccine candidate. By funding Novavax’s manufacturing effort, the federal government will own the 100 million doses expected…

COVID-19 Vaccines | HHS.gov

 

[zsiga]

The point is that the reason there is no brain is that the new human life has not yet developed the brain.

Yes, so up until the point that the brain is sufficiently developed, there is no personality, so there is no person. There are very

As for the analogy of the kneecap… one can be a person without a knee, but not without a mind (which is the product of the brain).

He just got the vaccine and they are going to distribute it to millions. This hardly sounds like abdicating leadership.

The researchers developed the vaccine and the military provides the infrastructure to distribute it. Despite the fact that Trump tries to castrate the military.

 

[Cathoholic]

zsiga . . . .

The researchers developed the vaccine . . .

This is a partial truth zsiga.

It is like saying the lab tech developed the vaccine instead of a researcher.

It was a coordinated effort. The researchers could not have done this without it being a coordinated effeort.

Why not just admit the obvious that everyone knows?
Why not just admit that President Trump provided the leadership for this multidisciplinary project?

Even Rachel Maddow several months ago was chalking this up to President Trump (but she was wrongly telling her viewers, that the vaccine would not materialize. Now that it has, she is being quiet. Just three or four weeks ago Kamala was saying she may not take the vaccine BECAUSE it came under Trump’s leadership. Andrew Cuomo just less than two weeks ago the same. Now your media people or whoever is trying to tell you [or us] that Trump had NOTHING to do with this success. It was all the researchers!!??)

I gotta tell you zsiga. I cannot think the way you are here. Maybe it is my own fault.

By the way.

The vaccine won’t be proverbially bullet-proof.
There WILL be serious side effects for some people.
And other people it would not make sense for them to take it (like me).

After the problems pile up, I suppose your guys will go back to “It was Trump’s fault” instead of “the researchers” too.

For the other readers. To some people it is pretty obvious “Trump” is going to get criticized no matter what he does.

These are visceral criticisms. Not intellectual. Don’t be fooled by that.

Covfefe.

 

[zsiga]

What do you consider a “demonstration” of the spiritual realm?

That is your problem, not mine. Try to come up with something. Since that alleged spiritual realm is supposed to be in constant interaction with the physical realm, you should be able to present some method to do it.

 

[JonNC]

Yes, so up until the point that the brain is sufficiently developed, there is no personality, so there is no person

As for the analogy of the kneecap… one can be a person without a knee, but not without a mind (which is the product of the brain).

There are many born human beings who, for one reason or another, lack what we consider personality. Is there no person there?

 

[zsiga]

There are many born human beings who, for one reason or another, lack what we consider personality. Is there no person there?

As long as the frontal lobe is active, there is person/personality. A lobotomy reduces the “person” to a “persistent vegetative state”.

 

[JonNC]

As long as the frontal lobe is active, there is person/personality. A lobotomy reduces the “person” to a “persistent vegetative state”.

Can we simply “ abort “ them?
In your view, does DNA determine human existence?

 

[zsiga]

Can we simply “ abort “ them?

Why not? What is the point of simply vegetating, having no contact with anyone? Cannot take care of yourself, soiling yourself? How humiliating it would be. No thinking, no desires, nothing that would make life WORTH living. I would definitely prefer to be taken out of my misery in that case. Wouldn’t you? Please answer this question.

In your view, does DNA determine human existence?

No. A trimmed fingernail also has “human” DNA. A mutant, whose DNA is incompatible with other people’s DNA, but who is otherwise a “super-human” should be accepted as a “human”, regardless of the discrepancy in the DNA.

Using the excellent observation of Forrest Gump: “Human is as human does.”

 

[JonNC]

Why not? What is the point of simply vegetating, having no contact with anyone? Cannot take care of yourself, soiling yourself?

Well, most of that is true of a six month old. So cannot care for oneself and soiling oneself is grounds for termination.

I would definitely prefer to be taken out of my misery in that case. Wouldn’t you?

I would prefer that laws not be passed that allow innocent human beings to be executed.

No. A trimmed fingernail also has “human” DNA

Fingernails do not have a heartbeat or brain activity. A fingernail is dead tissue.
But in your view, a soon to be born human being is essentially the same as a fingernail in this regard? Dead tissue?