Neither party completely follows Church teaching.
Can’t this be a little dangerous? You don’t know the person, and making a judgement about they’re character given past grievances may put you down a wrong path. St. Augustine had a bad character for a large portion of his life, yet he’s a saint. So couldn’t making a judgement of a persons character lead to judgementality?
In their public lives and how they conduct themselves, both Presidential candidates have told us a lot about themselves.
That is a decision that each Catholic voter needs to make. The Church, or random internet posters, can’t answer that question for you.
This may be true, but we’ve definitely had surprises from the current president. Things a lot of people wouldn’t have expected, good and bad. Since candidates oftentimes lie, or put up fronts, how can judging a persons character be accurate? More importantly, how can it be moral?
Really? The church holds a very clear stance on some non-negotiable issues. Issues any Catholic who is voting morally can’t ever support. The list is here: EWTN - Catholic Voter's Guide - Non-Negotiable Moral Issues That being said, doesn’t saying the Church has no moral authority to guide Catholic voters on important moral issues not in line with Church teaching? Does the Church hold no moral authority when it comes to voting? If so, why?
You HAVE to judge a candidates character! And, both of the current Presidential candidates are in their seventies. We know a lot about them. Heck, we might know emore about them than any previous candidates, as far as character is concerned.
That’s EWTN’s list of non-negotiable, not the Church’s.
The Church can help voters inform their consciences, but they can’t tell voters how to vote.
Judging the Candidates - Catholic Action For Faith and Family Specifically “we are called upon to be attentive to what the candidates espouse and to their respective parties’ platforms, and to judge each in light of the teachings of the Catholic Church.” That is not judgement of character, that is judgement of what policies the person or party supports. Again, judgement of character can lead to judgementality. How can it not?
So EWTN is wrong? How so? Also, the USCCB has very clearly stated 5 non negotiables in the past: USCCB Voting Guide for Catholics - mxnet. Note, the USCCB IS the representatives of the Catholic Church. Notice how close these two lists are?
They most certainly can, they can tell you who not to vote for.
People loathe me when I point this out, but there are more than two . . .
Good thing no one on the Right was obsessed with Obama. Oh, wait.
Character is important. I’ll just say that and leave it. You disagree. I won’t vote for a morally bankrupt candidate because I can get something out of him.
From the Bishop’s Guide:
If they can tell Catholics for whom to vote why do they publish voting guides and talk about using one’s well-formed conscience to decide which candidate to support?
Again, how can you know what is in someones heart? Isn’t that judgementality? If you don’t want to discuss this that’s fine, but my objection still stands. It seems to close to judgmentality, which can become a sin.
Ok, so do both candidates hold positions on intrinsic evils? Which evils? Also you didn’t answer my question, is EWTN wrong?
I said NOT, your missing that. The Catholic church can, and has condemned support for specific candidates in the past. They can’t support a particular candidate, but they can, and have, told people who they can’t support for. For example, Pope Pius XI forbade Catholics from aligning with the socialist party, and supporting socialist party candidates in Italy. When a political candidate directly contradicts church teaching, the church has every right to instruct the faithful not to support, or vote for that candidate.
Saying that a candidate with a decades-long history of letting us know exactly who he/she is can’t be judged as to character seems…strange. It’s equally strange to say that judging a political candidate’s character is somehow sinful.
LOL! In a binary election, telling someone who not to vote for is telling them who to vote for.
When you die, you will be judged by God. The church holds that if you live a sinful life, but repent in the last moments, you may possibly go to heaven. (Though there’s a debate on how much of our salvation is due to our work vs God’s mercy). So is the way God judges people strange?
Judging anyone can be sinful. Saying that someone has committed a mortal sin can be sinful. Is the churches teaching strange to you?
You can vote for third party candidates in the US election. You can even abstain from voting if you so choose. And was Pius wrong in condemning specific candidates and party platforms?
I’m evaluating whether to vote for someone, not whether they should go to hell.
Are you equating condemning socialism in the early twentieth century with telling people today not to vote for democrats? Isn’t that awfully judgmental?
www.foxnews.com
But you are judging the persons character and that is too close for me to judgmentatlity. Judging an action, or a stance is fine, but judging a person is problematic in the eyes of the church (and by extension God). I keep asking you how its not judgmentality, and you haven’t really answered my question.
Your missing the point. The point is the church can condemn specific candidates and platforms instruct Catholics not to vote for those options. And there’s a very large difference between judging a platform or potential action and judging a person, or a persons heart.