Single issue voting for the sanctity of life is fine for me. Why would I want to vote for those who support the work of Satan and why would anyone in the Church ask me to do this? If both parties end up with a baby killer on the ticket, President or Vice President I won’t pull the lever in the Presidential slot.U.S. bishops: Vote your conscience
LAWRENCE – If you think you know how the Catholic Church in the United States wants its members to vote in the presidential election this year, think again.Code:**[Catholics urged to weigh stands on all issues](http://www.nj.com/news/times/index.ssf?/base/news-4/1217390961251120.xml&coll=5)**
Single-issue voting, like simply choosing the anti-abortion candidate, is out.
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If we are going to allow the willful ripping of children out of the womb, to hell with the planet, let it burn.We can educate people on the immorality of abortion. But if the planet and its inhabitants are wiped out by a psychopath, abortion is a mute issue.
Jim
They are using global warning to frighten people into voting environmentally. They used over population scare tactics to bring about use of birth control, small families, and population control around the globe.If one candidate’s position is that its not the government’s place to be involved in the decision of abortion, but has sound judgment on all other issues, while the other candidate opposes abortion, but holds strange positions and if he were elected, could bring the world into a nuclear holocaust, the former candidate would be the correct choice.
Killing billions of people and destroying the planet, is a far greater evil than keeping government out of the controversial issue of abortion.
We can educate people on the immorality of abortion. But if the planet and its inhabitants are wiped out by a psychopath, abortion is a mute issue.
As the Bishops have said, you have to use sound judgment and not vote on a single issue.
Jim
I am suggesting that it is not right to point the finger at politicians and demand that they do something, while Catholic women snub their noses at the moral teachings of the Church. It is known that 70% of Catholic women of childbearing age use contraceptives, which is a larger percentage than women in USA society at large. I think it is simply wrong to blame some politician for this. Some contraceptive pills are known to be abortifacient. I don;t see where the answer to this is to lock up in jail 70% of all Catholic women of childbearing age. This is not the answer in my opinion and such a law would not stand. Catholics have go to take responsibility for their actions and not attempt to lay all the blame for their sins on political figures.Are you suggesting that the Church should preach but not influence policy?
Could you state your source for the 70% statistic? I’m surprised it’s not higher from what we read. And like mother used to say, 2 wrongs don’t make a right. Why go easy on the politicians just as we shouldn’t let our bishops off the hook when it comes to leading and watching out for the folks. The difference being we can boot a politician out of office when they mess up.I am suggesting that it is not right to point the finger at politicians and demand that they do something, while Catholic women snub their noses at the moral teachings of the Church. It is known that 70% of Catholic women of childbearing age use contraceptives, which is a larger percentage than women in USA society at large. I think it is simply wrong to blame some politician for this. Some contraceptive pills are known to be abortifacient. I don;t see where the answer to this is to lock up in jail 70% of all Catholic women of childbearing age. This is not the answer in my opinion and such a law would not stand. Catholics have go to take responsibility for their actions and not attempt to lay all the blame for their sins on political figures.
It really doesn’t matter - if something is wrong , (even though millions are doing it) you do take it to the lawmakers. You help them see the light and to legislate it. That is one way change is affected.I am suggesting that it is not right to point the finger at politicians and demand that they do something, while Catholic women snub their noses at the moral teachings of the Church. It is known that 70% of Catholic women of childbearing age use contraceptives, which is a larger percentage than women in USA society at large. I think it is simply wrong to blame some politician for this. Some contraceptive pills are known to be abortifacient. I don;t see where the answer to this is to lock up in jail 70% of all Catholic women of childbearing age. This is not the answer in my opinion and such a law would not stand. Catholics have go to take responsibility for their actions and not attempt to lay all the blame for their sins on political figures.
The result in criminalising artificial birth control will be that 70% of all Catholic women will be subject to these criminal penalties. What type of penalty are you suggesting fot this? Perhaps the death penalty, since it is the prevention of a human life? Or would it be life in prison at hard labor for using the birth control pill or some other contraceptive device?It really doesn’t matter - if something is wrong , (even though millions are doing it) you do take it to the lawmakers. You help them see the light and to legislate it. That is one way change is affected.
When it is murder then the punishment should fit the crime. We now know that the pill is an abortifacient, too.The result in criminalising artificial birth control will be that 70% of all Catholic women will be subject to these criminal penalties. What type of penalty are you suggesting fot this? Perhaps the death penalty, since it is the prevention of a human life? Or would it be life in prison at hard labor for using the birth control pill or some other contraceptive device?
it seems illogical to criminalize something like artificial birth control, although if we remember back it used to be illegal to provide artificial birth control to unmarried people. it was only around the 1970s that it was made legal for unmarried people to obtain the pill and other birth control devices as far as I know.So if it used to be illegal for unmarried people, why not at least return to that!The result in criminalising artificial birth control will be that 70% of all Catholic women will be subject to these criminal penalties. What type of penalty are you suggesting fot this? Perhaps the death penalty, since it is the prevention of a human life? Or would it be life in prison at hard labor for using the birth control pill or some other contraceptive device?
But it seems odd that 70% of all Catholic women in the USA use artificial birth control which is a greater percentage than the 64% of all women in the USA who use artificial birth control People are going around blaming politicians for this? Well if it is the po9liticians fault, then how come Catholic women use artificial birth control at a greater percentage rate than the population at large? What does this have to do with politicians?it seems illogical to criminalize something like artificial birth control, although if we remember back it used to be illegal to provide artificial birth control to unmarried people. it was only around the 1970s that it was made legal for unmarried people to obtain the pill and other birth control devices as far as I know.So if it used to be illegal for unmarried people, why not at least return to that!
I would think society would treat artificial birth control like cigarettes and smoking has been treated, by acknowledging the health risks it exposes women too as well as psychological problems of using something that alters one’s sexuality essentially…and then educating the law makers, doctors, health people and the public and having people stop using it because it simply is a bad, harmful practice. Drugstores would stop carrying the products. people would become more aware of natural family planning and the benefits it has…
That would make sense to me.
A big part of it is stressing partnership and equal responsibility of man and woman as well as defining the feminine nature as being
essentially designed to bearing children. Birth control destroys that part of womanhood, in essence creating a ‘homosexual’ relationship between men and women…an unfruitful, purely sexual relationship. That is why heterogenous couples using birth control have paved the way for same sex marriages and casual sex will pave the way for polygamous marriages…
In Christ, maryJohnZ
But it seems odd that 70% of all Catholic women in the USA use artificial birth control which is a greater percentage than the 64% of all women in the USA who use artificial birth control People are going around blaming politicians for this? Well if it is the po9liticians fault, then how come Catholic women use artificial birth control at a greater percentage rate than the population at large? What does this have to do with politicians?
And if birth control is criminalised, that would subject a lot of Catholic women to criminal penalties? To put 70% of all Catholic women of child bearing age in jail? It seems like we wouldn’t have enough jails to hold all of these Catholic criminals?
My point is that it is not right for Catholics to go around pointing the finger at some politician and say: See! He is pro-choice! What a shame! He won’t pass a law to criminalise abortion and artificial birth control What a shame!
I am not advocating for jail! if anything maybe jail some drug company CEOs or diretors…but not women, I see women as victims of our culture and poor shepherding in the church because many priests were telling women it was OK to use birth control. I know a priest told me it was ok… I was advocating for educating people on the harmful effects of artificial birthcontrol and the benefits of natural family planning.
Listen, I don’t know if you are Catholic or not but the church is like any other organization. At times some priests have misunderstood the teaching on birth control because differentMy point is that it is not right for Catholics to go around pointing the finger at some politician and say: See! He is pro-choice! What a shame! He won’t pass a law to criminalise abortion and artificial birth control What a shame!
I don;t see the shame on the politicians as much as I see the shame on the Catholic women who are choosing aborition and who are choosing contraception. Now you tell me that Catholic p;riests are supporting the use of artificial contraception. What kind of Catholic Church is this where the Pope issues an encyclical condemning the use of artifical contraception, but Catholic priests are telling people that it is OK to use artificial contraception? If it is a mortal sin, why are Catholic priests telling people that it is OK to commit a mortal sin? In any case, I don;t see this as a fault of some politician who failed to make laws criminalising these things, which Catholic priests themselves (according to you) are recommending people to use?
Catholic women have to take personal responsibility for their actions and not go around blaiming some politician. The Catholic women have chosen, at a greater rate than the women in the US population at large, to use artificial birth control and to employ abortion at their convenience. Shouldn’t these Catholic women be held personally responsible for their actions?
AMEN! God bless you maryJohnZ. I agree with you as a man, Catholic, and human being.Listen, I don’t know if you are Catholic or not but the church is like any other organization. At times some priests have misunderstood the teaching on birth control because different
people still represent it as nothing more than another way of practicing natural family planning. Becuae a priest misunderstands a teaching and misrepresents it is a terrible thing, but not a crime the whole church should be condemned for.
A mortal sin requires full understanding of what you are doing and consent to do it even if you know it removes you from God. I don’t believe the majority of women have the ability to fully understand what artificial birth control is and does and are using it in ignorance. That ignorance comes from not distributing information about church teaching within parishes and it comes from a culture/society that condones and even extols the use of contraception. I don’t blame politicians any more than I blam men , doctors, drug companies, anyone who should know better and hasn’t worked to inform others. if anything women are the promary victims here because husbands should love their wives as if they are a part of their own body and if they would not take drugs and alter their bodies then they should know that it is not right to ask their wives to do this. I deplore the way you are blaming women. Women have been lied to on every level on this issue. many women are afraid to give up birth control because
they feel it will invariably bring an end to their marriage because they do not trust that their own husband could work with natural family planning…because it requires the man to sacrifice too.
This is going way off topic at any rate. I just want to make the point that the way you criminalize women is very dishonest. Adam was given the order to 'guard the garden"…if anything the woman is the garden and men have not guarded it at all, that is why we have abortions and contraception and young women turning to lesbianism because they feel misused and abused by men. Ghandi had it right on this issue:
"It is an insult to the fair sex to put up her case in support of birth-control by artificial methods. As it is, man has sufficiently degraded her for his lust, and artificial methods, no matter how well meaning the advocates may be, will still further degrade her. I urge the advocates of artificial methods to consider the consequences. Any large use of the methods is likely to result in the dissolution of the marriage bond and in free love…Birth control to me is a dismal abyss."
In Christ, maryJohnZ
Its pretty incredible that a Catholic priest could be advising people to commit a mortal sin and the bishop does nothing about it?Listen, I don’t know if you are Catholic or not but the church is like any other organization. At times some priests have misunderstood the teaching on birth control because different
people still represent it as nothing more than another way of practicing natural family planning.
Well, who is the one who wants to make these type of things illegal? Is it honest to blame politicians for the fact that Catholic women are using birth control at a rate greater than women in the general population? Is is honest to blame politicians that Catholic women are having abortions at a rate slightly higher than what would be expected considering the proportion of Catholics in the USA?This is going way off topic at any rate. I just want to make the point that the way you criminalize women is very dishonest.
This thread has gone so far off topic.Well, who is the one who wants to make these type of things illegal? Is it honest to blame politicians for the fact that Catholic women are using birth control at a rate greater than women in the general population? Is is honest to blame politicians that Catholic women are having abortions at a rate slightly higher than what would be expected considering the proportion of Catholics in the USA?
Or is this just an attempt by many Catholics to evade personal responsibility in this area?
My understanding is the politicans in the USA are not telling Catholic women that they must have an abortion or that they must use contraception. They are simply saying that a law criminalising aritificial birth contraol would not be well received. And judging by the responses and accusations against me here, it looks to me like the politicians who say that a law criminalising artificial birth control would not be well recieved are correct.This thread has gone so far off topic.
This thread focuses on how a Catholic should vote and whether one issue voting is supported by the Church. A Catholic should uphold life and be anti-abortion. Voting for a politician that does not share your view on this most important point is not being true to yourself (if you are Catholic) or to God.
At this point, there is no one person to blame and pointing fingers is useless. The current state of affairs is never a justification for its continued existence.
Yes, priests and bishops can give bad advice. They are human and suffer tremendous temptation. In my experience, bishops are exposed to a more politics than priests, and often soften their message to avoid “rocking the boat”. So…do I believe that the UCCB is correct? No, not if they are saying that there are other issues just as important as abortion. I suspect, however, that this is just the media twisting their statements.
I will vote for the politician that does not support abortion in words and in deeds. If there are no such politicians, I will then turn to the other 4 issues I listed in a much earlier post in this thread. If there are no clear winners when I balance those issues, I will then turn to the war and other less important issues. That is the true teaching of the Church.
God bless you all. I believe that this thread has gone as far as possible.