U.S. Catholic bishops are considering punishing Catholics who enforce Trump's immigration policy

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For most of Church history this was a given. The notion that Catholics can oppose the bishops on political matters is a very recent novelty.

Pope Gregory VII, for example, defended the Pope’s right to appoint and remove emperors and kings.
 
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anikins said:
Separating children from their parents for the sole purpose of creating emotional distress to deter asylum-seekers is a moral issue. I’m so sorry that whatever Catholic education you had has failed you so severely that you do not see this.
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If that was true then those people would be committing a sin…but that would not make the act of separating the families sinful. The action would be wrong because the intent behind it was immoral, not because the act itself was wrong, and even normally moral acts - like charitable giving - can become immoral in specific cases if the reason for the giving is immoral.

In fact it is a normal part of every criminal system on Earth that the children are not incarcerated along with the parents nor that the parents are exempt from punishment if they have children.

Actually, that you assume the worst of the people involved here is both exceptionally uncharitable and represents a rash judgment of the very kind we are explicitly banned from making.
 
twf said:
For most of Church history this was a given. The notion that Catholics can oppose the bishops on political matters is a very recent novelty.
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It has never been church teaching that the opinions of bishops, including their political opinions, required any assent from the laity. Church doctrines yes, political preferences no.
 
I don’t know how much historical support you’ll find for this position in tradition. Many bishops ruled over temporal fiefdoms as lords. Separation of church and state is not a Catholic concept. Of course the Church has not bound us to a particular political view on many matters, but it certain has on some.
 
twf said:
I don’t know how much historical support you’ll find for this position in tradition
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It is the position of the church today. We have no moral obligation to assent to the prudential judgments (opinions) of anyone, including bishops and even the pope himself. We cannot simply dismiss those opinions, but we are not required to abandon our own judgments in favor of theirs, especially if we have carefully weighed our own and can reasonably defend them.
 
Ender said:
In fact it is a normal part of every criminal system on Earth that the children are not incarcerated along with the parents nor that the parents are exempt from punishment if they have children.
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Maybe this is the answer. Parents break the law, the whole family goes to jail.
There are immigration laws, follow them.
If seeking assylum, do it the right way.
I am not anti-immigration, but it must be done properly.
I am not sure why so many people can’t see that. We are a nation of laws and we do no one any good to not enforce them.
 
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Ender said:
If that was true then those people would be committing a sin…but that would not make the act of separating the families sinful
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I know it’s very hard for you to understand this but these families are not CHOOSING to be separated. They are not.

You sound just like an evangelical. Gross.
 
Yes, they are choosing to be seperated. The law states that if you want to apply for amnesty, you must go to a legal check-point and start the paperwork. You cannot just enter the country illegally. When you do, you are breaking the law, and just as any CITIZEN who breaks the law with their children in tow, the children are placed into the custody of a relative, if available, or made a ward of the state.

This has nothing at all to do with feeling and everything to do with law.

Let me ask you this, a parent is pulled over for speeding, and drugs are found in the car. Child is in the car with the parent. Parent is arrested, and it is found that parent has many outstanding warrants. Should the child go to jail with the parent? Or should the child be detained somewhere safe until a relative can take custody or the child is put into foster care?

If you can explain to me how this is any different, without overly being overly emotional, I am all ears.

If you can’t, please refrain for calling into question the “Catholiocity” of people who disagree with you.
 
CilladeRoma said:
until a relative can take custody
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This is the difference. Do you see?

There ARE family detention centers where children can be kept with the only relatives that they know. Jeff Sessions has chosen not to utilize them.
 
anikins said:
You sound just like an evangelical. Gross.
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I didn’t know it was “gross” to be an Evangelical. I know people who are Evangelicals and while I don’t agree with all their beliefs, they are good, upstanding people.
 
Why won’t you answer my question?
Why don’t we do this for children of citizens who are arrested? I have seen may children separated from their parents when said parent breaks the law and gets arrested. Why should it be different for non-citizens?

The people crossing the border illegally are BREAKING THE LAW! PERIOD!
They are the ones putting their children in harms way. If they want amnesty, there are legal ways to go about it.
We are a nation of laws, and now that the law is being enforced, people are angry, but they are angry at the wrong people. Be angry at the parents who are doing this to their children, not at the government for enforcing it’s laws.
 
CilladeRoma said:
When you do, you are breaking the law, and just as any CITIZEN who breaks the law with their children in tow, the children are placed into the custody of a relative, if available, or made a ward of the state.
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This is not normal for an adult who commits a misdemeanor.
 
I did answer your question. What’s happening to children at the border is different to what happens to children in the United States when a parent breaks the law. What’s happening at the border is unnecessary.
 
Maybe not, but again we are talking about legal citizens of this county, not people who are usurping our laws to get their way.
 
I’d urge you to consult the Gospels to see why that’s not a justification for child abuse.
 
The government is not “abusing” children. Their parents are by breaking the law and using their children as pawns to gain sympathy for their illegal actions.
 
Did some Catholics here forget the part of the Bible where the Holy Family fled to another country in fear for their lives?
 
anikins said:
I know it’s very hard for you to understand this but these families are not CHOOSING to be separated. They are not.
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True, they are choosing to break the law, which now has consequences, one of them being that of incarceration. Let’s review the options and you can tell us which one you prefer.
  1. Don’t incarcerate illegals entering with a child.
  2. Incarcerate the parents and the children all together.
  3. Incarcerate the parents, but care for the children separately.
If there is another possibility please suggest it, otherwise tell us what you think should be done.
 
People continue to reveal their inner bigotry through Freudian Slips. 😀
 
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