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EmperorNapoleon
Guest
Its just standard diplomacy. I guess some people think diplomacy is all polite conversation over tea and crumpets. Its really much uglier than that.
po18guy
Well-known member
I don’t see an actual answer in there…
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EmperorNapoleon
Guest
The answer is that I don’t oppose the method.
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Petaro
Guest
Rest assured that Australia supported America, rightly or wrongly in the Iraq war . I can also tell you that we were neither threatened or bribed. Your own attitude to your country is surprising given how quick you are to speak incorrectly against it. I thought the Iraq war was unwise as was the move against Afghanistan, but true friends support each other.
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EmperorNapoleon
Guest
Nothing that I said is untrue and its never been a secret. We have economic aid packages with several nations which are contingent upon their support of US military and foreign policy positions. We bribed at least seven members of the Security Council to vote in favor of a UN Resolution threatening military action. We threatened Russia and France and made good on threats to other nations. For example, we cancelled free trade negotiations with New Zealand because of their vocal opposition. Its how the world works.
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Abba
Guest
This is true. I remember when France was threatened. I wish international politics was more just and clean but is it not. If we pretend we only participate in the great deception and great injustice.
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KyivAndrew
Guest
Yes, and only 10 states agreed to vote with Putin the autocrat against the resolution, most of them autocracies just like Putin’s without rule of law, namely: Belarus, Bolivia, Cuba, North Korea, Nicaragua, Sudan, Syria, Venezuela and Zimbabwe, and Armenia which came under intense pressure and threats from Putin’s Russia not to turn to Europe.
When ruthless dictators like North Korea’s Kim Jong-Un and Belarus’ Lukashenka are in your court, it does say something about the company Russia keeps. So 100 countries in the UN vote in favor of the motion declaring Russia’s move invalid, while Russia can only get 10 others to support its military annexation of a neighboring country and the ‘referendum’ held at the barrel of a gun.
North Korea, Belarus, Putin’s Russia: these are all repressive states without the rule of law. Even some Russian and Ukrainian bloggers have basically called Putin’s control of state-controlled media as North Korea lite. If one ever watches Russian TV in Russian, for instance programs by Putin’s favorite journalist Kiselyov (whom he has made head of Russian state media), the amount of lies and obfuscation and state propaganda is really astounding and does deserve the description North Korea lite. I mean Kiselyov even had nuclear explosions raining on the US in his description of the Crimea situation. North Korea would be envious of such stunts. For both powers, North Korea and Russia, the Western democracies, America, NATO are the enemy. Similar state-induced xenophobia. Putin got it and keeps it from his formative years in the Soviet KGB which institution and vicious leader Yuri Andropov taught him what is noble, while Kim Jong-Un gets it from his communist brainwashed upbringing.
When the North Korea gets mad at democratic South Korea, it stages war games. Now Russia is transporting massive amounts of tanks, armor, troops to within just 20 km of the Russia/Ukraine border. And Russia complains about the political situation in Ukraine not stabilizing. What!? How is it to stabilize with a large chunk of the Russian army ready to invade at a moment’s notice, while hundreds of Russian Spetsnaz are now roaming undercover through Eastern and Southern Ukraine causing trouble and causing pretexts for an invasion.
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saintjohnxxiii
Guest
So you support Pres. Bush going into Iraq? Interesting.
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EmperorNapoleon
Guest
No, but we aren’t talking about the reason for diplomatic efforts; just the method of diplomacy.
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saintjohnxxiii
Guest
You may not be talking about the reason but the rest of us are because that is relevant to the conversation.
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KyivAndrew
Guest
From the Daily Beast’s Eli Lake:
*Russia is invading Ukraine with its Spetsnaz—the special operations units and battalions attached to both the military and the country’s intelligence agencies.
U.S. intelligence officials now say Russia’s Spetsnaz are expanding into eastern and southern Ukraine, as well. The intelligence report from February assessed that Russian provocateurs would look to instigate low-level street brawls or “skirmishes” in eastern and southern Ukraine. The report also predicted that Russia’s shadow warriors would seek to pay off Ukrainians to attend pro-Russian rallies and in general fan the flames of separatism. And since then, eyewitnesses say, that’s exactly what’s happened.
One U.S. official said the U.S. military intelligence analysts suspect elements of the 45th Spetsnaz regiment of Russia’s military intelligence service known as the GRU were conducting the provocations in Ukraine. On Thursday the White House added Igor Sergun, the 57 year old chief of the GRU, along with 19 others to a list of Russian officials sanctioned for the invasion of Crimea.
“This is the use of deniable special operators under GRU control to create provocations and really these are quasi-deniable operations,” added John Schindler, a retired NSA counter-intelligence officer and specialist in Russian affairs who now teaches at the U.S. Naval War College.
Last week, the Ukrainian press reported that a member of Russia’s GRU was arrested trying to enter the southern Ukrainian city of Kherson carrying heavy weapons and phony identification documents. According to a second press account, the Security Service of Ukraine arrested a Ukrainian citizen that it claimed was leading a spy ring to conduct surveillance on sensitive military installations in Kherson.
Schindler said the GRU Spetznas were following a similar playbook of provocations or “active measures” taken in the Republic of Georgia following the country’s 2005 Rose Revolution. “This sort of Spetznas special operations, intel-driven exercise is the continuing Russian refinement of the same model used in Georgia,” he said.*
thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/21/u-s-eyes-russian-spies-infiltrating-ukraine.html
Now that article was written over a week ago. Since that time the Russian military build-up on Ukraine’s borders has accelerated, as per Time Magazine:
*American officials are worried that 50,000 Russian troops being massed near the Ukraine border and within Crimea, the pro-Russian peninsula recently annexed by President Vladimir Putin, aren’t there for just a training exercise.
Despite Russian reassurances that Moscow’s troop buildup along Ukraine’s eastern frontier is for a military exercise, its growing scale is making U.S. officials nervous about its ultimate aim.
Pentagon officials say they believe there could be close to 50,000 Russian troops bordering the former Soviet republic and inside Crimea, recently seized and annexed by Moscow. That estimate is double earlier assessments, and means Russian President Vladimir Putin could order a lighting strike into Ukrainian territory with the forces already in place.
*
time.com/41490/russia-ukraine-crimea-putin/
I sincerely do hope Russian military aggression and blackmail against neighboring democracies do not have too many supporters on CAF.
*Russia is invading Ukraine with its Spetsnaz—the special operations units and battalions attached to both the military and the country’s intelligence agencies.
U.S. intelligence officials now say Russia’s Spetsnaz are expanding into eastern and southern Ukraine, as well. The intelligence report from February assessed that Russian provocateurs would look to instigate low-level street brawls or “skirmishes” in eastern and southern Ukraine. The report also predicted that Russia’s shadow warriors would seek to pay off Ukrainians to attend pro-Russian rallies and in general fan the flames of separatism. And since then, eyewitnesses say, that’s exactly what’s happened.
One U.S. official said the U.S. military intelligence analysts suspect elements of the 45th Spetsnaz regiment of Russia’s military intelligence service known as the GRU were conducting the provocations in Ukraine. On Thursday the White House added Igor Sergun, the 57 year old chief of the GRU, along with 19 others to a list of Russian officials sanctioned for the invasion of Crimea.
“This is the use of deniable special operators under GRU control to create provocations and really these are quasi-deniable operations,” added John Schindler, a retired NSA counter-intelligence officer and specialist in Russian affairs who now teaches at the U.S. Naval War College.
Last week, the Ukrainian press reported that a member of Russia’s GRU was arrested trying to enter the southern Ukrainian city of Kherson carrying heavy weapons and phony identification documents. According to a second press account, the Security Service of Ukraine arrested a Ukrainian citizen that it claimed was leading a spy ring to conduct surveillance on sensitive military installations in Kherson.
Schindler said the GRU Spetznas were following a similar playbook of provocations or “active measures” taken in the Republic of Georgia following the country’s 2005 Rose Revolution. “This sort of Spetznas special operations, intel-driven exercise is the continuing Russian refinement of the same model used in Georgia,” he said.*
thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/21/u-s-eyes-russian-spies-infiltrating-ukraine.html
Now that article was written over a week ago. Since that time the Russian military build-up on Ukraine’s borders has accelerated, as per Time Magazine:
*American officials are worried that 50,000 Russian troops being massed near the Ukraine border and within Crimea, the pro-Russian peninsula recently annexed by President Vladimir Putin, aren’t there for just a training exercise.
Despite Russian reassurances that Moscow’s troop buildup along Ukraine’s eastern frontier is for a military exercise, its growing scale is making U.S. officials nervous about its ultimate aim.
Pentagon officials say they believe there could be close to 50,000 Russian troops bordering the former Soviet republic and inside Crimea, recently seized and annexed by Moscow. That estimate is double earlier assessments, and means Russian President Vladimir Putin could order a lighting strike into Ukrainian territory with the forces already in place.
*
time.com/41490/russia-ukraine-crimea-putin/
I sincerely do hope Russian military aggression and blackmail against neighboring democracies do not have too many supporters on CAF.
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pepipop
Guest
presstv.com/detail/2014/03/28/356339/us-sets-europe-and-russia-at-war/
*When US President Barack Obama embarked on his European tour this week there was the usual sycophantic Western media image of the American leader as a benefactor. Obama, so the story went, was coming to unite and support Europe in the face of Russian aggression in Ukraine.
The facts are the opposite. The US has sought to divide Europe from Russia and sow conflict in Eurasia ever since the end of the Second World War nearly 70 years ago. That is a continuum to the present day. The main objective for Washington is to prevent Europe developing closer relations with Russia. Central to the problem, from the US point of view, is to curb Europe and Russia becoming strategic energy partners.
This is what the current crisis over Ukraine is really about. Washington took the lead in inciting regime change in Kiev at the end of last year. And it is Washington that is taking the lead in rushing through Congress-approved finance and IMF loans to shore up the unelected anti-Russian junta in Kiev.
Admittedly, some European politicians, such as Britain’s David Cameron and France’s Francois Hollande, appear to have gone along gung-ho with the US adversarial agenda towards Moscow. But there again several other European states, including Italy, Austria, Holland, Belgium and Finland, have sought to de-escalate tensions. Most notable is Germany, Europe’s largest economy
While Obama was this week endorsing “unity” between the US and Europe and “isolation” for Russia, he was also pushing for two major American interests - under the guise of American benevolence of course.
Those two interests are, firstly, the long-term replacement of Russian energy supplies with American exports of natural gas. The renewed US fossil fuel industry is a leitmotif of recent years in an attempt to boost the stagnant American economy. America needs to find export markets for its projected natural gas production. Currently, Russia supplies some 30-40 per cent of Europe’s fuel consumption. The US wants this lucrative chunk of the global energy market.
A cheeky admission of that divisive American influence was let slip by Obama during one of his European speeches this week when he told an admiring audience in The Hague: “We [the US] have considerable influence on our neighbors. We generally don’t need to invade them in order to have a strong co-operative relationship with them.”
Instead of “co-operative relationship” Obama really meant to say “coercive relationship”.*
*When US President Barack Obama embarked on his European tour this week there was the usual sycophantic Western media image of the American leader as a benefactor. Obama, so the story went, was coming to unite and support Europe in the face of Russian aggression in Ukraine.
The facts are the opposite. The US has sought to divide Europe from Russia and sow conflict in Eurasia ever since the end of the Second World War nearly 70 years ago. That is a continuum to the present day. The main objective for Washington is to prevent Europe developing closer relations with Russia. Central to the problem, from the US point of view, is to curb Europe and Russia becoming strategic energy partners.
This is what the current crisis over Ukraine is really about. Washington took the lead in inciting regime change in Kiev at the end of last year. And it is Washington that is taking the lead in rushing through Congress-approved finance and IMF loans to shore up the unelected anti-Russian junta in Kiev.
Admittedly, some European politicians, such as Britain’s David Cameron and France’s Francois Hollande, appear to have gone along gung-ho with the US adversarial agenda towards Moscow. But there again several other European states, including Italy, Austria, Holland, Belgium and Finland, have sought to de-escalate tensions. Most notable is Germany, Europe’s largest economy
While Obama was this week endorsing “unity” between the US and Europe and “isolation” for Russia, he was also pushing for two major American interests - under the guise of American benevolence of course.
Those two interests are, firstly, the long-term replacement of Russian energy supplies with American exports of natural gas. The renewed US fossil fuel industry is a leitmotif of recent years in an attempt to boost the stagnant American economy. America needs to find export markets for its projected natural gas production. Currently, Russia supplies some 30-40 per cent of Europe’s fuel consumption. The US wants this lucrative chunk of the global energy market.
A cheeky admission of that divisive American influence was let slip by Obama during one of his European speeches this week when he told an admiring audience in The Hague: “We [the US] have considerable influence on our neighbors. We generally don’t need to invade them in order to have a strong co-operative relationship with them.”
Instead of “co-operative relationship” Obama really meant to say “coercive relationship”.*
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Seamus_L
Guest
Could be Armenia voted with Russia, not because they were pressured, but because the West want’s them to give Nagorno-Karabakh to Azerbaijan, and because they apparently don’t have a problem with NATO member Turkey being used as a Jihadist base to attack Armenians in Syria. And as for the repeated claims that Russia doesn’t allow newsmedia who are critical of the government, try reading the Moscow Times.
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Seamus_L
Guest
And while Russia is allegedly invading Ukraine, a video has emerged of Ukrainian vigilantes looking for suspected pro-Russian activists on the streets of Dnepropetrovsk. 3 men get accused in the video, one get’s punched in the face and another is threatened with a knife. They are then taken to a police station. Got a feeling it’s happened more than once.
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Vouthon
Guest
PressTV? Really?
So now you have gone a step further and are using the propaganda outlet of the Islamic Republic of Iran, a theocratic dictatorship run by millenarian Shia clerics, as your source?
Come on, I’d even rather have RT than PressTV.
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TaurusRex
Guest
As God is my witness I was watching a video: “Armies of the ancient world” and when it was over, thinking it was part #1, I clicked on the video that I thought was part #2:
The crazy thing is that the area of Khazaria happens to be on the Russian side including Crimea of this present day conflict …
something else interesting is that the Aryan race which started in Iran spread through this Khazarian area and into Europe.
Another weird coincidence is that apparently the Khazarians considered themselves as a 13th tribe of Israel and they adopted Judaism which according to the video is denied by Israeli Jews that they (the Khazarians) ever had a foot in Israel;
rex
Shocking isn’t it?
The crazy thing is that the area of Khazaria happens to be on the Russian side including Crimea of this present day conflict …
something else interesting is that the Aryan race which started in Iran spread through this Khazarian area and into Europe.
Another weird coincidence is that apparently the Khazarians considered themselves as a 13th tribe of Israel and they adopted Judaism which according to the video is denied by Israeli Jews that they (the Khazarians) ever had a foot in Israel;
rex
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Ridgerunner
Guest
And what were the adverse consequences to France other than being called “Surrender Monkeys” by some in America? As far as I know, France still exists and I can still buy French wine (when I can afford it).
Let’s see the sources for the adverse consequences.
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pepipop
Guest
Yes, it has been going on for weeks from other web sources. It is the unfortunate consequence of the rioting, an overthrown government and hence widespread civil unrest between all ‘sides’.
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pepipop
Guest
hahaha I was waiting on the ‘Aggghhh that’s a ridiculous media source’, yet Daily Beast and other sources have been uploaded, on the thread, without comment.PressTV? Really?
So now you have gone a step further and are using the propaganda outlet of the Islamic Republic of Iran, a theocratic dictatorship run by millenarian Shia clerics, as your source?
Come on, I’d even rather have RT than PressTV.
However the author of the ‘opinion’ piece is not Iranian.
Finian Cunningham (born 1963) has written extensively on international affairs, with articles published in several languages. He is a Master’s graduate in Agricultural Chemistry and worked as a scientific editor for the Royal Society of Chemistry, Cambridge, England, before pursuing a career in journalism. He is also a musician and songwriter. For nearly 20 years, he worked as an editor and writer in major news media organisations, including The Mirror, Irish Times and Independent. Originally from Belfast, Ireland, he is now located in East Africa as a freelance journalist, where he is writing a book on Bahrain and the Arab Spring, based on eyewitness experience working in the Persian Gulf as an editor of a business magazine and subsequently as a freelance news correspondent. The author was deported from Bahrain in June 2011 because of his critical journalism in which he highlighted systematic human rights violations by regime forces. He is now a columnist on international politics for Press TV and the Strategic Culture Foundation.
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