Ukraine (cont.)

[KyivAndrew]

From James Meek of the Guardian:

"In the wake of the revolution in Kiev that drove the corrupt president Victor Yanukovych to flee, Ukraine faced a world of problems. Not one of those problems has been made easier by Putin seizing Crimea or sponsoring insurrection in eastern Ukraine. Ever since the revolution, Putin has promoted the idea that Ukraine is in “chaos”. But there was no chaos, so he made some. The only chaos in Ukraine has been caused by Russian intervention.

Putin has promoted the notion that ethnic Russians were in danger. There has never been evidence for this unless you count as brutal repression a failed attempt to revive an old law making Ukrainian the sole language for court hearings and government forms. Putin calls for greater autonomy for the south and east of Ukraine, and more rights for Russian-speakers, while doing all he can to obstruct elections that would bring them back into the political process.

A dangerous line was crossed today when a Ukrainian security service officer was killed by one of the “men in green” at a roadblock set up by the Russian proxies near Slavyansk – the first time since Putin invaded Crimea that blood has been shed during an attempt by Ukrainian government forces to assert control.

Putin has put Ukraine’s weak transitional government in an impossible position: fail to resist and I will invade. Resist and I will invade more, and there will be corpses. Although they would never admit it, the authorities in Kiev are resigned to the loss of Crimea. But they don’t know where or when Putin will stop. His strategy has blighted the future of Ukraine’s 46 million people, making it impossible for any part of the country to move forward."

theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/13/ukrainians-russians-fascists-putin-west-ukraine

 

[KyivAndrew]

OK the following video demonstrates how these takeovers in Eastern Ukraine of government buildings have not been spontaneous civil disobedience but coordinated military attacks, probably under the control of Russia’s secret services the FSB and military intelligence GRU. Ukraine has caught some of these Russian agents in other parts of Ukraine as they have been fanning out across Ukraine to stir unrest.

People have pointed to the fact that many of the so-called self-defense forces in Donetsk are carrying weapons only used by Russian spetsnaz, and wear similar camouflage. Ukraine has and is being invaded by a foreign country so Putin’s words that the Ukrainian government is causing a civil war is off the mark. The Ukrainian government is reacting to a Russian special ops operation to destabilize Ukraine.

In the video you can see obviously well-trained pro-Russian and probably Russian military storm the police building in Kramatorsk, Donetsk province. One middle-aged man with his hands in the air besides the policeman says he is an Afghan vet and he tells the masked military men they are pro-Donetsk republic, no need for confrontation. Not good enough for this well-trained pro-Russian unit. They push the local police away and the man and begin to fire the place up and take it completely over. Having secured the building, they then rush in civilians, titushyky (protestors for hire), separatists into the building so it looks as if Donetsk’ civilians are taking the police building spontaneously on their own. The civilians occupy the building and tear down the up-to-then standing Ukrainian flags. This has been well-orchestrated and bears the appearance of a classic Russian military or GRU takeover of places in Crimea, and now of places throughout Eastern Ukraine. Had Ukraine’s President not given an ultimatum this would be happening throughout Eastern Ukraine.

Here is the video:
youtube.com/watch?v=VEZ5SjkroNQ

The Kyiv Post writes of this video:

People are closely studying the video of the pro-Russian raid on the Kramatorsk police station, looking for clues of Russian military or special forces involvement – and finding it.

Adrian Karatnycky, a Ukrainian analyst who writes frequent commentaries on events in Ukraine, reached these conclusions after watching the video: “First, organized (Russian) spetsnaz teams enter-- guns blazing. They are followed by organized bands of less well armed ‘titushky’ and these are followed by local protesters – mainly poor, some ideological-- (many of whom are reportedly encouraged with payments of $50 for participation in protests. Phase one and two of such a takeover is chillingly recorded in this video. This is a planned, military and paramilitary operation. In the video, it is clear that they were transported into Kramatorsk from outside.”

Here’s some of the dialogue that creates suspicion of Russian involvement:

Police and other men ask the unformed soldiers: “Where are you from guys?”

[One civilian with the police responds]: “The headquarters is taken over by Afghan veterans! By the Afghan Veterans of Kramatorsk city. Guys, we are for the Donetsk Republic! We want it, just as u do guys, we are Afghan veterans. We control the situation here. Come on!” Then shooting in the air begins as the [pro-Russian military] group advances, enters and armed militants guard the entrance.

Militants shout “step back!” and someone replies, "Hey we are with you, we’ve come with Slava (a with very Russian pronunciation).

The militants reply: “Fine but step back now!! Stay behind the curb.” The world “curb” is very Russian, observers have noted, not used often in Ukraine.

kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/armed-pro-russian-separatists-lay-siege-to-donetsk-oblast-as-ukrainian-government-struggles-to-combat-343288.html

Now, if acting President Turchynov had not issued an ultimatum for these mercenaries to leave public buildings, this Putinite scenario would be repeating further in Ukraine, all with the Russian secret police’s help. Indeed, the self-proclaimed pro-Russian leader of neighbouring Luhanks province flew to Moscow for consultations with the Russian bigot Vladimir Zhirinovsky, Putin’s vice-speaker of the Duma. Ukraine has to stand up for its country now. There is no other choice since Putin isn’t stopping stirring up trouble to destabilize Ukraine.

Ukraine has put up with the Kremlin’s oppression for centuries from Czars, to Communists, and now from Putin. Enough!

 

[AnastasiaRomano]

The Russian television stations are full of lies about Ukraine as is their affiliated RT News in English. Rosiya 1, NTV, RT are all under the control of Putin’s thought police and friends. Repeat the lie over and over again on Russian TV: Ukrainian fascists are coming to get you. Repeat, over, and over, and over until you scare the daylights out of some Eastern Ukrainians and have your own Russian population swallowing the propaganda whole. Since this all started some months back, despite all this Russian propaganda, there has not been an instance of some massive Ukrainian radical nationalist force coming to Eastern Ukraine to beat up ethnic Russians or Russian speakers simply for being Russians. This is the BIG LIE Putin propagates. Ethnic Russians have not been under threat since the Maidan. No massive wave of extremists coming from Kyiv to beat up Russians. Period.

This isn’t the first outright fabrication that Russian stations have been caught in, either. In late February or early March, several stations aired a story claiming that hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian citizens were fleeing to Russia and that several border crossings entering Russia were backed up for miles. The accompanying photo with the story showed a line of cars and trucks waiting at a border control station. Except, the photo broadcast with the story was actually an undated photo from the Shehyni-Medyka border crossing on the highway between Przemysl, Poland, and Lviv – and apparently was simply a regular business day with various people and shipments, etc., crossing the border. Actual real-time webcam footage of the border crossings with Russia showed them to be rather empty. (This article from early March mentions that fabricated photo, among other things, including Russian soldiers who admitted to Ukrainian journalists that they were Russian soldiers without insignia and another case of a single interviewee who was given multiple identifications: rferl.org/content/russia-big-lie-ukraine/25286568.html )

Yet these stations cry foul when the Ukrainian, Lithuanian, and Latvian governments try to put limits on them…

 

[AnastasiaRomano]

A roundup story from the Kyiv Post about today’s events:
kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/ukraines-ultimatum-9-am-deadline-passes-in-east-four-dead-in-sloviansk-live-updates-343380.html

5 p.m. – Interim President Oleksandr Turchynov has called on the United Nations to deploy peacekeepers to help diffuse the increasingly chaotic situation in eastern Ukraine.

In a phone conversation with UN Secretary General Ban Ki Moon, Turchynov suggested that UN peacekeeping forces might be able to conduct a joint “anti-terrorist operation” with Ukrainian security forces.

Deployment seems unlikely however, as it would have to be approved by the Security Council. Russia is one of five permanent members on the Security Council and has the power to veto any resolution.

3:20 p.m. – A video has surfaced of a man who identifies himself as a Russian lieutenant colonel organizing police officers shortly after pro-Russian separatists stormed and took control of the police station in Horlivka.

According to Ukrainska Pravda, the man is from Simferopol and carries a Russian passport.

The video (in Russian) can be found here

This information complements reports from journalists on the ground in Horlivka, who say that the seizure of the police office was coordinated by the Russian government.

BuzzFeed’s Max Seddon tweeted that “A local cameraman in Horlivka says he got a call from Russian TV three hours ago asking if he could film the raid that was forthcoming.”

 

[Seamus_L]

Now we’ve got reports of an American destroyer being buzzed by a Russian fighter in the Black Sea, and the Russian government are asking the US, why the director of the CIA was in Kiev recently.

 

[AnastasiaRomano]

“Anti-terrorist operation begins in northern Donetsk Oblast, SBU identifies leader of paramilitary group in Sloviansk”

kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/turchynov-anti-terrorist-operation-has-begun-in-northern-donetsk-343563.html

Turchynov: Anti-terrorist operation has begun in northern Donetsk

11:23 a.m. – Interim President Oleksandr Turchynov has announced that Ukrainian special forces had launched an anti-terrorist operation in the northern part of Donetsk oblast before dawn on April 15.

“Tonight an anti-terrorist operation began in the north of Donetsk oblast. It will be conducted step-by-step, responsibly, deliberately. The goal of these actions, I want to underline, is to defend the citizens of Ukraine,” said Turchynov, speaking before the Verkhovna Rada.

SBU: a Russian military intelligence officer is in charge of Sloviansk paramilitary group

13:42 – The Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) has identified Igor Strelkov as the leader of the paramilitary group that has taken control of the eastern city of Sloviansk. Strelkov is a commanding officer of a Russian military intelligence unit.

The press service of the SBU announced that they had identified Strelkov’s voice in a recording of a telephone conversation between Strelkov and a Moscow official on April 14.

The SBU said that Strelkov arrived in Crimea at beginning of March and began directing Russian troops and special forces to occupy Ukrainian military outposts and government buildings, and orchestrated the kidnappings of Ukrainian soldiers, activists, and other Ukrainian and foreign citizens.

Strelkov has reportedly recruited Ukrainian citizens to conduct subversive actions in Crimea and Eastern Ukraine.

 

[AnastasiaRomano]

Statement by Rinat Akhmetov, the richest man in Ukraine and the largest employer in Donetska Oblast (around 300,000 employees there).

kyivpost.com/opinion/op-ed/akhmetov-i-will-do-everything-possible-to-ensure-that-the-voice-of-donbass-is-heard-343450.html

A portion:

I have maintained the same position during all these years – for a strong, independent and united Ukraine. And my position has not changed today: Ukraine is a unified and united country.

I am convinced that the negotiating table is the only weapon we should use today.

Only the negotiating table can help to put the escalation of tensions to an end. Only the negotiating table can provide decisions that will benefit the entire country and every Ukrainian!

I was born and grew up in Donetsk. I live here. My home, my team, my friends and my family are here. And I will do everything possible to ensure that the voice of Donbass is heard, that Donbass is respected and, most importantly, that Donbass and Ukraine are together forever.

 

[Seamus_L]

At least 4 people killed by Ukrainian government forces at an airfield in Kramatorsk. en.ria.ru/news/20140415/189238765/4-Protesters-Killed-in-Army-Attack-on-Airfield-in-Eastern-Ukraine.html
I think there's a good chance that this will backfire on the acting government and further unite Russian speakers.

 

[Seamus_L]

And the Kyiv Post is referring to those killed as “Kremlin backed terrorists” Reports: Shooting continues in Kramatorsk, four Kremlin-backed terrorists dead kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/turchynov-anti-terrorist-operation-has-begun-in-northern-donetsk-343563.html

 

[Ridgerunner]

At least 4 people killed by Ukrainian government forces at an airfield in Kramatorsk. en.ria.ru/news/20140415/189238765/4-Protesters-Killed-in-Army-Attack-on-Airfield-in-Eastern-Ukraine.html

                                             I think there's a good chance that this will backfire on the acting government and further unite Russian speakers.

Even if it’s true, (and there’s no certainty of that) there is no certainty that Ukrainian Russian speakers will take umbrage at Ukrainian government forces killing Russian invaders, any more than English speaking Canadians would take offense at English-speaking U.S. invaders’ being killed.

I think there’s much better than a good chance Putin has engineered the reality that the Ukrainian government loses, no matter whether it does anything or does nothing. If it resists the Russian invaders and agents, it will be deemed an act of war against Russians, justifying military intervention (conquest) by Russia. If it does nothing, Putin can claim it’s the “will of the people” that his minions take over. If anybody tries to help Ukraine, it will be “NATO aggression”, justifying seizure of Ukraine.

Any way you look at it, Putin is going to conquer more of Ukraine, possibly all of it.

 

[pepipop]

At least 4 people killed by Ukrainian government forces at an airfield in Kramatorsk. en.ria.ru/news/20140415/189238765/4-Protesters-Killed-in-Army-Attack-on-Airfield-in-Eastern-Ukraine.html

                                             I think there's a good chance that this will backfire on the acting government and further unite Russian speakers.

Dreadful actions to take against their own people.

Obama released the following statement:

*The United States condemns in strongest terms the violence that’s taking place there. And we have been deeply engaged with our European partners as well as both the Ukrainian government and the opposition to try to assure that that violence ends.

But we hold the Ukrainian government primarily responsible for making sure that it is dealing with peaceful protesters in an appropriate way; that the Ukrainian people are able to assemble and speak freely about their interests without fear of repression.

And I want to be very clear that as we work through these next several days in Ukraine that we are going to be watching very carefully and we expect the Ukrainian government to show restraint, to not resort to violence in dealing with peaceful protesters. We’ve said that we also expect peaceful protesters to remain peaceful. And we’ll be monitoring very carefully the situation, recognizing, along with our European partners and the international community, there will be consequences if people step over the line. And that includes making sure that the Ukrainian military does not step into what should be a set of issues that can be resolved by civilians.

So the United States will continue to engage with all sides in the dispute in Ukraine, and ultimately our interest is to make sure that the Ukrainian people can express their own desires. And we believe that a large majority of Ukrainians are interested in an integration with Europe, and the commerce and cultural exchanges that are possible for them to expand opportunity and prosperity.

But regardless of how the Ukrainian people determine their own future, it is important that it is the people themselves that make those decisions. And that’s what the United States will continue to strive to achieve.
*

Whoops, got it wrong…yes, it is a speech made by Obama but one he made several months ago when the Maidan protesters were rioting to join the EU.

whitehouse.gov/the-press-…ateral-meeting

 

[Ridgerunner]

Dreadful actions to take against their own people.

Obama released the following statement:

*The United States condemns in strongest terms the violence that’s taking place there. And we have been deeply engaged with our European partners as well as both the Ukrainian government and the opposition to try to assure that that violence ends.

But we hold the Ukrainian government primarily responsible for making sure that it is dealing with peaceful protesters in an appropriate way; that the Ukrainian people are able to assemble and speak freely about their interests without fear of repression. *

And I want to be very clear that as we work through these next several days in Ukraine that we are going to be watching very carefully and we expect the Ukrainian government to show restraint, to not resort to violence in dealing with peaceful protesters. We’ve said that we also expect peaceful protesters to remain peaceful. And we’ll be monitoring very carefully the situation, recognizing, along with our European partners and the international community, there will be consequences if people step over the line. And that includes making sure that the Ukrainian military does not step into what should be a set of issues that can be resolved by civilians.

So the United States will continue to engage with all sides in the dispute in Ukraine, and ultimately our interest is to make sure that the Ukrainian people can express their own desires. And we believe that a large majority of Ukrainians are interested in an integration with Europe, and the commerce and cultural exchanges that are possible for them to expand opportunity and prosperity.

But regardless of how the Ukrainian people determine their own future, it is important that it is the people themselves that make those decisions. And that’s what the United States will continue to strive to achieve.

Whoops, got it wrong…yes, it is a speech made by Obama but one he made several months ago when the Maidan protesters were rioting to join the EU.

whitehouse.gov/the-press-…ateral-meeting

I didn’t realize he was quite that much into blaming the victims. But I guess maybe he is. Probably he would say the same thing about the conquest of Crimea and the slow-motion conquest of eastern and southern Ukraine by Russia.

But then, he drew a red line in Syria and let it go. So maybe he’s not particularly anti-interventionist so long as the power doing the intervening is an evil one.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Statement by Rinat Akhmetov, the richest man in Ukraine and the largest employer in Donetska Oblast (around 300,000 employees there).

kyivpost.com/opinion/op-ed/akhmetov-i-will-do-everything-possible-to-ensure-that-the-voice-of-donbass-is-heard-343450.html

A portion:

Poor fellow. The day is probably not far away before Putin’s cronies will shear him like a sheep.

 

[josie_L]

Dreadful actions to take against their own people.

Ukrainian troops free Kramatorsk airbase, four Kremlin-backed terrorists dead

6:30 p.m. – Interfax Ukraine reports that Interim President Oleksander Turchynov has announced that Ukrainian troops have successfully freed the Kramatorsk airfield.

According to the AP, “The mayor of Kramatorsk said Ukrainian troops have now occupied the military airport and are blocking its entrance.”

The freeing of the airfield is part of the Ukrainian Defense Ministry’s “anti-terrorist operation,” which is being conducted throughout eastern Ukraine to quell Russian-backed separatist movements.

Rossiya 24 reports that four Russian-sponsored terrorists were killed as a result of the operation.

Further, according to Interfax Ukraine, Andriy Parubiy, the Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council, says the Ukrainian special forces’ operation has led to the detainment of Russian officers. – Mark Rachkevyvch and Isaac Webb

kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/turchynov-anti-terrorist-operation-has-begun-in-northern-donetsk-343563.html

 

[KyivAndrew]

Let me get this straight. Putin’s puppet Prime Minister Medvedev states Ukraine is on the brink of civil war. Putin has invaded Ukraine (Crimea), has tens of thousands of Russian armed forces on Ukraine’s border, and has sent in Russian Spetsnaz, FSB agents (formerly KGB) and Russian military secret police (GRU) agents and soldiers covertly in the hundreds into Eastern Ukraine. These Russian forces have been behind the recent wave of takeovers of Ukrainian government buildings. They have also coordinated their actions with former Berkut troops and a minority of Donetsk thugs. But Putin’s Russian forces are in Eastern Ukraine.
Russian paramilitary leaders in eastern Ukraine caught on tape communicating with Moscow
kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/russian-paramilitary-leaders-in-eastern-ukraine-caught-on-tape-communicating-with-moscow-343644.html

So Putin breaks international law by sending in hundreds of his own military intelligence and spetsnaz troops into a foreign country to take over city and provincial buildings in Eastern Ukraine (“the little green men” as Ukrainians call the Russian troops without insignia and armed with Russian assault weapons seen earlier in Crimea) and create anarchy. There are videos of these forces. This is OK. for Putin.

But for the government of Ukraine to send in troops into its own country, being vigilant not to harm its civilian population, but to restore the order broken by these little green men from Russia is unacceptable in Putin’s eyes. What does he expect: the Ukrainian government should sit back and let Putin’s FSB, GRU, and spetnaz forces take over more buildings in Ukraine proper under the direction of the Kremlin and with the support of local violent separatists?

The under-reported fact in all this is that the vast majority of the so-called Russian-speakers in Donetsk whom Putin has taken upon himself to defend DO NOT WANT Putin nor Russia ! Over two-thirds in Donetsk city want in Ukraine. Some 75% I think I quoted earlier from a poll in Donetsk are against the takeover of public buildings by these so-called pro-Russian forces and separatists. Only 18% support separatism and joining Russia. (Putin must have truly believed it would be higher).

The coordinated capture of Ukrainian government buildings and protests are not like the Maidan’s spontaneous protests where one million people demonstrated in Kyiv against Yanukovych. There are perhaps at any time a few hundred supporters in front of places like the taken-over Donetsk Regional Council. There is no majority support among Donetsk residents for the lawlessness and takeover of government buildings these little Russian green men have committed with local separatist help. The fact is these vigorously pro-Russian people are in the minority; they are just the minority that is being supported by Russian forces and they are the most vocal. And they have been effected by the non-stop Russian news stories on their TV claiming Ukrainian extremists are coming to Eastern Ukraine to repress them.

So for instance in the city of Sloviansk, in Donetsk the elected mayor of the city complains that the local armed pro-Russian force and thugs are stealing provisions meant for school kids, as they occupy a government building, and put up road blocks. The mayor of this city of the Donetsk province, is not from the Maidan but local, but that’s not good enough for Putin’s separatists. In Horlivka, the armed separatists are pressuring and threatening its mayor to leave his post. Again, he is a local Donetsk boy, not from the Maidan, but that’s still not acceptable to the Kremlin or pro-Russian thugs. These elected Donetsk mayors must be forced to resign because only the armed pro-Russia separatists and their Russian military helpers are allowed to speak for what the Donbas wants.

The Ukrainian soldiers going into Donetsk are from places like Odesa and Dnipropetrovsk, Russian speaking areas and they are proudly doing their job of bringing order and stability, though in the face of a violent and vocal minority. It hasn’t occurred to Putin that Russian speaking Ukrainians and ethnic Russians in Ukraine can actually be UKRAINIAN PATRIOTS, as millions upon millions are.

Putin’s fabrications of fatal Ukrainian threats to Russian speakers are ridiculous; anybody who knows Ukraine knows this, unless they have been watching Russian news fabrications non-stop.

(continued below)

 

[KyivAndrew]

Look. Putin is fighting against time. He knows a Presidential election is scheduled for Ukraine for May 25 which will thoroughly defeat his whole accusation that today’s interim government is illegitimate. Ukraine will have a democratically elected President. Putin cannot allow democracy to succeed in Ukraine now. That’s why he is destabilizing the country.

And this is also connected to Putin’s internal policy. As in the Soviet days, the Kremlin always and successfully diverted attention from its monumental internal problems by focusing on imagined external threats and conspiracies. Putin is doing the same, using his propaganda TV stations. A rigid Russian imperialism always diverted the citizens from the problems at home (endemic corruption, “legal nihilism” to borrow a term from Medvedev). Phantom threats always had and have their place in the Kremlin. The fact that the Kremlin is run by unreconstructed KGB agents like Putin, Sergei Ivanov, and Nikolai Patrushev who were schooled in conspiratorial thinking and admire Soviet secret police butchers doesn’t help either.

How violent this all gets is up to that unrepentant KGB man Putin. If he orders the recall of the hundreds of Russian secret agents and special forces he has sent into Ukraine to cause anarchy, and if he pulls back that ridiculous massive military force on Ukraine’s border (what is Ukraine going to invade Russia now?) then the majority of Donetsk and other Eastern Ukrainians who wish to live in an independent Ukraine can begin to rebuild their country, and construct relationships with the central government in Kyiv.

But he won’t. Putin is losing his grip on reality now, seeing external enemies everywhere, as many an occupant of the Kremlin before him has been tormented seeing enemies everywhere from Ivan Grozny to Stalin and now to Putin. Putin is a very narcissistic man with an inferiority complex, in my opinion, who will act out aggressively and irrationally.

And does anybody wish to think how Putin would deal with separatism in his Russian federation? I will tell you it wouldn’t be this incremental proportional response Ukraine’s government is doing. Putin would just carpet-bomb the heck out of any territory wishing to secede from Russia, regardless of civilian casualties, even Russian casualties, as he has done in the past. And for Putin separatism can only go one way, to the Russian Empire, not the other way around.

Remember when Putin invaded Georgia and made Southern Ossetia an independent state which nobody recognizes. Well, what do you think Putin’s reaction was to a request thereafter from the North Ossetia Republic’s people, whose territory is firmly in Russia, to joining this independent Ossetian state to the south to form an independent Ossetia. No, replied the Kremlin. Does that make sense? You fight a war for Ossetian independence ostensibly, but you refuse your own Ossetian Republic’s request for independence. What’s mine is mine, what’s yours is mine to.

You see all these non-Russian territories acquired by the Russian Tsar’s and later Soviet communist expansionism are not allowed to secede from Russia or even to have a referendum on the matter even though they are conquered territories.

And where is Putin’s protection of ethnic Ukrainians living in Russia proper, the third largest ethnic group in Russia. Well, in Putin’s Russia Ukrainians are forbidden from having any Ukrainian schools, any newspapers in their native language, or even from establishing their own churches (i.e. Ukrainian Catholic, Ukrainian Orthodox Kyivan Patriarchate). The bigotry of the Russian government to anything Ukrainian among its Ukrainians citizens is mind-boggling. But this is acceptable to Putin. Were the current Ukrainian Catholic, Roman Catholic, and Ukrainian Orthodox (Kyivan) communities ever to find themselves under Russian rule in Ukraine, the consequences would be horrific in my opinion for them.

 

[SeanF1989]

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2605578/Edward-Lucas-I-hope-Im-wrong-historians-look-say-start-World-War-III.html

• Vladimir Putin is striking at the heart of the West’
• ‘We can chose to surrender any responsibility we have to protect Ukraine and the Baltic states’
• ‘Or we can mount a last-ditch attempt to deter Russia from furthering its imperial ambitions’
• ‘If we choose to resist Putin, we will risk a terrifying miltary escalation’
• ‘I do not think it an exaggeration to say this could bring us to the brink of nuclear war’

While I do think World War 3 could happen one day I don’t think it will be nuclear and I don’t think something like this could ignite it, then again all it took was the assassination of an Archduke to throw Europe into turmoil and start World War I.

 

[Mickey_Finn]

Well I hope it comes to nothing too. But they’ve been chirping about a third world war for a few years now.

1. NATO is at it’s weakest since the great fall.
2. Aside from Russia, France has the largest standing army. (This alone can conjur up thoughts of the first world war.)

So, if Russia occupies the Ukraine under some manufactured pretext. That will leave, poland, and a few Baltic states standing tall and wide. An uncomfortable position to be in. Poland would fight, and most likely fall. The rest of their neighbors? I don’t see much resistance if they choose to stand alone and wait their turn. If under NATO they act in union, and are able to halt Putin. Could the UK, build up it’s military while engaging in austerity? Not likely, but they have a history of rallying around the Union Jack. Germany as I’ve said before is emmasculated, and run by banking interests. So, they’ll make every effort to stay out.

The obvious solution is USA getting involved. Would we? We are going, as the author pointed out, with the diplomacy route. Stalling, and hopefully preparing to act.

If sanctions do work, and perhaps Putin is removed from office. Could we actually move away from pointless war, and it’s accompanying death?

ATB

 

[7_Sorrows]

Adide from russia france has the largest standing army? Really?
France?

 

[Seamus_L]

According to RIA Novosti, the crews of 6 Ukrainian armored transport vehicles have gone over to the pro-Russian side en.ria.ru/world/20140416/189240520/Personnel-From-6-Armored-Transport-Vehicles-Sent-To-Kramatorsk.html. And the BBC is reporting the story along with that of local people blocking the streets against Ukrainian soldiers in Kramatorsk.