Ukraine

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American conservatives complain about lying mainstream media and defend Putin’s record on laws regarding gay propaganda
one second later American conservatives believe every lie the mainstream media says about the Ukraine situation and suddenly Putin is a monster
LOL
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It would appear however that not all Russians incline towards Putin in this crisis:
12:50: Boris Sergeev in Novosibirsk, Russia emails: I’m a Russian, live in the centre of Russia - Siberia. No idea why Putin did this, this must be some mistake. We, the middle class of Russia, don’t want any war, we don’t want any imperial ambitions to be established. We want a decent life for us and our children and good relations with the whole world and with our neighbours. But even if he made this mistake, Putin has never retreated and he never said he was wrong. And this is what scares me most.
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bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26405082

Nonetheless I can sympathise with the claims of Crimean Russians as well, such as this person who lives currently in my own neck of the woods:
12:58: Andy in Edinburgh emails: My wife is from Donetsk and her family are still there. Generations of their family are from rural Ukraine but they also feel close to Russian culture, with a shared religion, language and history. They want Ukraine to stay together but one of the first actions of the new unelected Ukrainian leaders was to revoke the official status of Russian language. This disregard for a large proportion of citizens showed no desire to help build a united Ukraine. Many in the east remember western Ukrainian collaboration with the Nazis in WWII and are worried to see the far right gaining leadership positions again in Kiev.
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I don’t see this as black-and-white. While the Euromaidan protests themselves were overwhelmingly led by ordinary people wanting a less corrupt, more free and EU-oriented Ukraine, there have been right wing groups such as Right Sector capitalizing on the protests. Such groups exist in every country however. Do you think that if there were protests against the UK government that the English Defence League and the BNP would not capitalize on these popular protests with their anti-Muslim and anti-immigrant bile?

However Putin is acting illegally and I don’t see how anyone could legitimately argue, on the basis of international law, otherwise.

The parliament give him a blank cheque to go into Ukraine, not just Crimean Ukraine. The Western powers made it clear that the government in Kiev was not going to have to “choose between Russia and the West”. Yet Putin has shown no desire to dialogue with the new authorities.

Putin has chosen the path of military force. This is surely not in line with Catholic beliefs on just military intervention. I opposed the USA’s Iraq War and I will equally oppose what Putin is doing right now.

I pray that cooler heads will prevail, nonetheless I challenge you Jharek, or anyone else who supports Russia’s actions in this crisis, to prove to me that Putin is a ‘cooler head’ and has taken every step to get a peaceful solution in this situation. I do not see that. I see a man using minority claims to bully a smaller country and expand his territory.
 
TRH1292 said:
Perhaps so, but that will require that the different parts of the confederation actually want to be apart of the same nation, and will do so on an equal basis.
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Yes, but Ukraine is land, not people. That’s my big issue, because people come and go, and whoever lives on that land could share the responsibility in maintaining the land.

…why must Eastern Ukrainians be so bonded to Russia, aside from fear? Their fear would be eased with the establishment of their own state.
 
JordanJD said:
American conservatives complain about lying mainstream media and defend Putin’s record on laws regarding gay propaganda
one second later American conservatives believe every lie the mainstream media says about the Ukraine situation and suddenly Putin is a monster
LOL
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Russia possesses enough land. Can they really handle the great size of Ukraine? It’s huge.
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I kept seeing this symbol on TV and on the badges of various Ukranian Protestors: upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c9/I%D0%B4%D0%B5%D1%8F_N%D0%B0%D1%86%D1%96%D1%97.jpg.

And I kept thinking to myself, now where have I seen that before? And then I remembered, from my World War Two studies. It was a symbol used in varying forms as a logo for several Waffen SS divisions.

Also, apparently, as a logo or symbol relating to the Ultra-Nationalist Ukrainian party, which is now in the government.
 
TEPO said:
Yes, but Ukraine is land, not people. That’s my big issue, because people come and go, and whoever lives on that land could share the responsibility in maintaining the land.

…why must Eastern Ukrainians be so bonded to Russia, aside from fear? Their fear would be eased with the establishment of their own state.
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I guess to an extent. But that just means the people have to actually want to live together, which remains to be seen.

Well, mostly bonded to Russia because many of them are Russian, speak Russian, and just like Russia.
 
Vouthon said:
I pray that cooler heads will prevail, nonetheless I challenge you Jharek, or anyone else who supports Russia’s actions in this crisis, to prove to me that Putin is a ‘cooler head’ and has taken every step to get a peaceful solution in this situation. I do not see that. I see a man using minority claims to bully a smaller country and expand his territory.
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TEPO said:
Russia possesses enough land. Can they really handle the great size of Ukraine? It’s huge.
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Russia has not sent one soldier or one military craft outside the Crimean peninsula, Putin said his goals are to protect Russian people in the Crimean region and so far that is all he has done.
 
Vouthon said:
Putin has chosen the path of military force. This is surely not in line with Catholic beliefs on just military intervention. I opposed the USA’s Iraq War and I will equally oppose what Putin is doing right now.
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:hmmm: The Church has requirements for a Just War, not a just military deployment. The Iraq War, now that was a war. This is not a war. This is a potential military deployment in an autonomous province for defense, at the request of their own government. That is hardly a war or military conflict.
 
TRH1292 said:
I kept seeing this symbol on TV and on the badges of various Ukranian Protestors: upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c9/I%D0%B4%D0%B5%D1%8F_N%D0%B0%D1%86%D1%96%D1%97.jpg.

And I kept thinking to myself, now where have I seen that before? And then I remembered, from my World War Two studies. It was a symbol used in varying forms as a logo for several Waffen SS divisions.

Also, apparently, as a logo or symbol relating to the Ultra-Nationalist Ukrainian party, which is now in the government.
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Symbols like that have also been used by many ancient tribes I believe from Greece and Italy -except it was more like a swastica. I’d like some proof of Ukrainian fascist sects. I’ve been hearing talk of it here but have received no links. 🤷
 
Another tweet put up on the BBC from a Russian:
13:18: Richard Galpin, BBC News, Moscow tweets: Anti-war protestor in #Moscow #Russia: “I am ashamed at what’s happening. We have to show Ukrainians not all Russians support views of #Putin”
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Thank you for the link. Also I also support Russian protection for ethnic Russians there… But if Russia does anything more, it will be considered ‘Empire building’ in my book. And I’m not sure that a Russian empire would be a good thing for the world -nor would an American empire.
 
I honestly don’t know what the solution to all this is. Russia sending troops into Ukraine looks like a very aggressive move on one hand, but on the other hand, I believe that Russian speakers in Ukraine have very legitimate fears concerning the Euromaidan movement that forced out President Yanukhovych. This may be heading towards the Cuban Missile Crisis in reverse. If only the West would have dissolved NATO when the Soviet Union collapsed. Instead NATO keeps expanding, and yet the Russians aren’t suppose to feel threatened.
Pope Francis really needs to call another worldwide day of prayer and fasting for peace in Ukraine and Russia.
 
The part I find most hilarious is that all the news media (everything from the cable news to the newspapers to the internet based blogging sites) are so desperate for news and for traffic that they will just keep re-posting old news, or do scare tactic headlines, and will take any twitter post, no matter it’s source and post it as news. In other words, right now normal Russian troop numbers are on the Crimean Peninsula, nothing else has occurred, and yet go to almost any news site and you would think Ukrainian and Russian tanks are rolling up and down Kiev fighting ship-of-the-line style
 
GaryTaylor said:
I seen this last night. Biker Gang :eek:

huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/28/night-wolves-ukraine-putin-biker-brothers_n_4873315.html

"Putin has ridden a Harley-Davidson with the bikers[Night Wolves] and called them his “brothers”. He is said to be close to its long-haired leader, Alexander Zaldostanov, nicknamed “the Surgeon”
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(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Oh geez…. I thought Nochniye Volki - or Night Wolves - was sort of like a Church group?
I read when they ride into town people start praying!

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6520/160309242.1b9/0_10ce89_5ed30923_L.jpg
 
Just in from the BBC:
14:16: The Telegraph has published this article on Russia’s version of the Hell’s Angels - the Night Wolves who are strong Putin supporters. They are reported to have a heavy presence now in Crimea.
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14:11:** US Secretary of State John Kerry says Russia is behaving “in 19th century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped-up pretext”**.
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14:08: More than 1,500 veterans of the Soviet Union’s military campaign in Afghanistan (1979-89) have arrived in Crimea from Russia, the Russian Interfax news agency reports. Their leader, Frants Klintsevich, told the agency that they are there to offer “friendly and moral support” to activists in Crimea - via BBC Monitoring.
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14:00: Julia Ioffe Senior editor, The New Republic tweets: Czech Republic recalls its ambassador to #Russia for what it calls "Prague Spring in the #Crimea." Damn. pravda.com.ua/news/2014/03/2/701708
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So there are a vocal but thuggish minority of fascists in the west causing problems for majority peaceful, pro-EU protesters and now biker-clad Night Wolves led by a man who calls himself “the Surgeon” :eek: in the east…and Russia is occupying part of the country and threatening the rest…my word, those poor people of Ukraine 😦
 
Seamus_L said:
I honestly don’t know what the solution to all this is. Russia sending troops into Ukraine looks like a very aggressive move on one hand, but on the other hand, I believe that Russian speakers in Ukraine have very legitimate fears concerning the Euromaidan movement that forced out President Yanukhovych. This may be heading towards the Cuban Missile Crisis in reverse. If only the West would have dissolved NATO when the Soviet Union collapsed. Instead NATO keeps expanding, and yet the Russians aren’t suppose to feel threatened.
Code: 
                             Pope Francis really needs to call another worldwide day of prayer and fasting for peace in Ukraine and Russia.
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Amen Seamus!
 
Telegraph - Donald Tusk, the Polish prime minister, has warned the “world stands on the brink of conflict” over Ukraine, and that “Europe must send a clear signal it will not tolerate any acts of aggression of intervention.”
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**The warning came in a speech made by Mr Tusk at a specially-convened press conference and expressed Poland’s growing alarm at the situation in its neighbour.
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“The world stands on the brink of conflict, the consequences of which are not foreseen,” said the prime minister.
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“Not everyone in Europe is aware of this situation.**
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“Ukrainians have to find out today that they have real friends,” Mr Tusk continued. “Europe must send a clear signal that it will not tolerate any acts of aggression or intervention.”
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Russia’s use of force in Ukraine has triggered mounting anxiety in Poland, which, given its bloody treatment at the hands of Moscow in the past, still views the Kremlin with deep and ingrained suspicion.
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Bronislaw Komorowski, the Polish president, has called for the North Atlantic Council to convene in an emergency session saying “we [Poles] can feel threatened by the potential use of Russian armed forces on Ukrainian territory.”
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Meanwhile, Radek Sikorski, Poland’s foreign minister who played a key role in brokering the agreement that ended the deadly conflict in central Kiev, cut short a visit to Iran to deal with the crisis on his country’s borders.
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In the Czech Republic, the country’s president drew parallels with Russia’s military intervention in Crimea to the Warsaw Pact’s crushing of the Prague Spring in 1968.
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“Although I absolutely understand the interests of the majority Russian-speaking population of Crimea… we have our experience with military intervention from 1968,” said Milos Zeman.
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“I think any military intervention creates a deep ditch which cannot be filled for a generation,” he added.
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telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10670931/Ukraine-crisis-World-stands-on-brink-of-conflict-warns-Polish-prime-minister.html
 
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