Ukraine

  • Thread starter Thread starter Seamus_L
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Miserissima said:
As long as the pro sovereign Ukraine people continue to splinter into radical factions, the better Putin looks.

If only the new government could channel the hardliners and their energies to the border…taking a page from the Soviet playbook under the chapter called “conscription.”
Click to expand...
Very true.

The same thing happened in Syria, where Assad and Putin came out top. The opposition splintered into chaos, with radical Islamists seizing their chance.
 
One small part of the Ukrainian freedom movement is ultra right wing, and you throwing the whole nation under the bus? OK, your choice I guess. But we all need to realize they don’t represent the entire new Ukrainian government in Kiev. And as others have pointed out, there are plenty of ultra right wingers supporting Russia in the Crimea right now who are beating up kids who are trying to demonstrate for free press or express their views peacefully. Lots of pictures on the Internet if you look for them of the results of right wing gangs in Crimea beating up kids.

By the way, I was mistaken about the Admiral who defected. He was part of the new Kiev government, and I guess was appointed yesterday. Looks like a bad choice if he defected a day after.
 
Just in from the BBC (which is doing an excellent job with these live update feeds):
16:51: Matt in Cambridge emails: My wife is Russian and is horrified by the events in Ukraine, but not surprised. Putin is unpopular with many younger, savvier Muscovites. It was reported earlier that 27,000 people marched in Moscow in a show of strength for the Kremlin, but this figure is deceiving. I have friends in Moscow who tell me that many were forced to go by their companies (government employees, teachers, civil servants, those who work for large Russian corps) but they do NOT agree with Russian military intervention. Putin only aims to bring civil war to Ukraine, then his presence is justified there.
Click to expand...
 
gilliam said:
One small part of the Ukrainian freedom movement is ultra right wing, and you throwing the whole nation under the bus? OK, your choice I guess. But we all need to realize they don’t represent the entire new Ukrainian government in Kiev. And as others have pointed out, there are plenty of ultra right wingers supporting Russia in the Crimea right now who are beating up kids who are trying to demonstrate for free press or express their views peacefully. Lots of pictures on the Internet if you look for them of the results of right wing gangs in Crimea beating up kids.

By the way, I was mistaken about the Admiral who defected. He was part of the new Kiev government, and I guess was appointed yesterday. Looks like a bad choice if he defected a day after.
Click to expand...
Gilliam, I love your posts and agree with you 99.44/100% with pure love. However, the news this morning I saw a tree festooned with nooses with a sign that read, “This is for those who do not support Ukraine.”

I saw vigilantes knocking at doors of private citizens saying, “come out or we are coming in. We don’t want trouble, we just want to see your identification.”

These are the trigger happy whack jobs who should be at the front, not harassing people in their homes.
 
Look:

There is a clear disagreement between some people posting here, and others who are probably reading all of this but not commenting on it.

No matter what side you think is best, we should all have the same goal: 1. Peace in the Ukraine. 2. Self Determination for all the different people in the Ukraine.

Ultimately, none of us here are in a real position of influence, from an earthly perspective. All we can do is watch, argue, and pray.

We need to be doing much more prayer. Instead of praying for our particular ideological goals. let us simply pray for Peace in the Ukraine and that the rights of all might be respected, and leave it to God to sort out how to do that, with recognition that each of us could be wrong about this.

For Peace in the Ukraine:

Hail Mary, full of grace.
Our Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb,
Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.
 
TRH1292 said:
Look:

There is a clear disagreement between some people posting here, and others who are probably reading all of this but not commenting on it.

No matter what side you think is best, we should all have the same goal: 1. Peace in the Ukraine. 2. Self Determination for all the different people in the Ukraine.

Ultimately, none of us here are in a real position of influence, from an earthly perspective. All we can do is watch, argue, and pray.

We need to be doing much more prayer. Instead of praying for our particular ideological goals. let us simply pray for Peace in the Ukraine and that the rights of all might be respected, and leave it to God to sort out how to do that, with recognition that each of us could be wrong about this.

For Peace in the Ukraine:

Hail Mary, full of grace.
Our Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb,
Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.
Click to expand...
Beautifully said and I agree with your sentiments entirely.
 
Miserissima said:
Gilliam, I love your posts and agree with you 99.44/100% with pure love. However, the news this morning I saw a tree festooned with nooses with a sign that read, “This is for those who do not support Ukraine.”

I saw vigilantes knocking at doors of private citizens saying, “come out or we are coming in. We don’t want trouble, we just want to see your identification.”

These are the trigger happy whack jobs who should be at the front, not harassing people in their homes.
Click to expand...
Trigger happy whack jobs shouldn’t be at the front or harassing people! Trigger happy whack jobs start both wars and genocides!
 
Miserissima said:
Gilliam, I love your posts and agree with you 99.44/100% with pure love. However, the news this morning I saw a tree festooned with nooses with a sign that read, “This is for those who do not support Ukraine.”
Click to expand...
People in the Ukraine are mad, upset, and terrified. You would be too if Russia invaded.
I saw vigilantes knocking at doors of private citizens saying, “come out or we are coming in. We don’t want trouble, we just want to see your identification.”
Click to expand...
That’s happening in the Crimea too. In fact that is how the government buildings are being taken, vigilantes first, Russian army later.

That country is at war.
These are the trigger happy whack jobs who should be at the front, not harassing people in their homes.
Click to expand...
Yep, and a lot of them are now joining the Ukrainian army I am told the sign ups are massive. Which is where they belong so there is discipline.

Ever watch Red Dawn? It is a pretty good vignette on what would happen if the US was ever invaded.

Invasions are not pretty, on either side.

War isn’t pretty.
 
TRH1292 said:
Trigger happy whack jobs shouldn’t be at the front or harassing people! Trigger happy whack jobs start both wars and genocides!
Click to expand...
I stand corrected.

I would rather have a THWG conditioned to be a soldier at the front rather than doing a “papers check” at a civilian’s breakfast table.
 
He isn’t president of the Ukraine. There are radical politicians in the UK too; should Russia invade the UK?

By the way, him winning against Yanukovych a most unliked man, is hardly saying he ever will be president.
 
During the Great War, Germany grabbed Ukraine
and Lenin took it back
During the Great Pariotic War, Germany grabbed Ukraine
and Stalin took it back
During the Winter Olympiad, Germany grabbed Ukraine
and Putin let it slip away.

globalpost.com/dispatch/news/afp/140302/germany-warns-new-division-europe-over-ukraine

Couldn’t help it, it stuck I my mind from an earlier post.

Ukraine… “This is a Red-Alert” CNN live.

“This is the red alert, this is not a threat, this is actually a declaration of war to my country,” Ukraine’s prime minister, Arseniy P. Yatsenyuk
 
Having “no mercy” for one’s enemy and only having “dialogue with them via a rifle’s business end”? So, in order to deal with fascism you would become like a fascist?
 
A Sky News correspondent in Moscow has said that he witnessed both extensive anti-war and pro-war protests. The anti-war protesters were broken up by the police and many were beaten and arrested. The pro-war protesters had people dressed up in Soviet era WWII army outfits and were not broken up, in fact the police blocked traffic so as to allow them through.

Hilarious, were it not true.
 
Lincoln did a great turn to democracy when he put,the opposition in power along side him, as he did not want all one voice, or toadying, to his office. This was before the US civil war.

Allowing the fascists in the new Ukraine government was supposed to be a move to help them feel less marginalized and demonstrate “unity.”

This tactic should have waited until things settled down with Russia. Now there are fascist domestic terrorists unleashed.

But I still hear shades of “United Serbia for Serbians!” from Russia. “Untied Russia for Russians, national borders be damned!”

Again, it’s like the US going to war over cities in southern California or lower Texas if the immigrant population takes up arms, both citizens and non-citizens.

Would they have the right to secede as an ethnic peoples, but remember, this isn’t inside their national border.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top