Understanding the Trinity

  • Thread starter Thread starter Horton
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
castle_hunter said:
No Catholic (or any other Christian) said that.

You said that.

Now calm down laddy, don’t get tetchy, and tell us what you think instead of deliberately misquoting others. That is a rather pathetic debating technique that makes you (not those you do it to) look foolish.
Click to expand...
I see you can’t answer the question again castle 🙂

I will kindly try again.
Are both the Catholic and Orthodox Churches guided by the Holy Spirit in their teaching?

.
 
Servant19 said:
I see you can’t answer the question again castle 🙂

I will kindly try again.
Are both the Catholic and Orthodox Churches guided by the Holy Spirit in their teaching?

.
Click to expand...
You didn’t ask that question in your previous post.

If you want to ask a question you should ask it, not put it in the disrespectful tones of your previous post.

Let your yes be yes and your no be no.

The Holy Spirit attempts to guide all. Whether we listen to him is another matter.

There is a nastiness in your posts.

I do not think you are a happy man.
 
castle_hunter said:
You didn’t ask that question in your previous post.

If you want to ask a question you should ask it, not put it in the disrespectful tones of your previous post.

Let your yes be yes and your no be no.

The Holy Spirit attempts to guide all. Whether we listen to him is another matter.

There is a nastiness in your posts.

I do not think you are a happy man.
Click to expand...
I think it would be best for you to read the last 10 pages of this thread again to get some semblance of context 🙂

Would you mind sharing with me where I have a disrespectful tone please?

.
 
Servant19 said:
Indeed He does.

The context was therefore, why would the Holy Spirit create division between the Orthodox, and Catholic teachings?

.
Click to expand...
There is only one will of God, the Trinity our Creator, who does good, yet His creations err to produce divisions. This is a pertinent section from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

285 Since the beginning the Christian faith has been challenged by responses to the question of origins that differ from its own. Ancient religions and cultures produced many myths concerning origins. Some philosophers have said that everything is God, that the world is God, or that the development of the world is the development of God (Pantheism). Others have said that the world is a necessary emanation arising from God and returning to him. Still others have affirmed the existence of two eternal principles, Good and Evil, Light and Darkness, locked, in permanent conflict (Dualism, Manichaeism). According to some of these conceptions, the world (at least the physical world) is evil, the product of a fall, and is thus to be rejected or left behind (Gnosticism). Some admit that the world was made by God, but as by a watch-maker who, once he has made a watch, abandons it to itself (Deism). Finally, others reject any transcendent origin for the world, but see it as merely the interplay of matter that has always existed (Materialism). All these attempts bear witness to the permanence and universality of the question of origins. This inquiry is distinctively human.

286 Human intelligence is surely already capable of finding a response to the question of origins. The existence of God the Creator can be known with certainty through his works, by the light of human reason,122 even if this knowledge is often obscured and disfigured by error. This is why faith comes to confirm and enlighten reason in the correct understanding of this truth:
"By faith we understand that the world was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was made out of things which do not appear."123
122 Cf. Vatican Council I, can. 2 § I: DS 3026.
123 Heb 11:3.

292 The Old Testament suggests and the New Covenant reveals the creative action of the Son and the Spirit,132 inseparably one with that of the Father. This creative co-operation is clearly affirmed in the Church’s rule of faith: “There exists but one God. . . he is the Father, God, the Creator, the author, the giver of order. He made all things by himself, that is, by his Word and by his Wisdom”, “by the Son and the Spirit” who, so to speak, are “his hands”.133 Creation is the common work of the Holy Trinity.

132 Cf. Ps 33:6; 104:30; Gen 1:2-3.
133 St. Irenaeus, Adv. haeres. 2,30,9; 4,20,I: PG 7/1,822,1032.
​
 
Vico said:
Others have said that the world is a necessary emanation arising from God
Click to expand...
O friend of mine! The Word of God is the king of words and its pervasive influence is incalculable. It hath ever dominated and will continue to dominate the realm of being. The Great Being saith: The Word is the master key for the whole world, inasmuch as through its potency the doors of the hearts of men, which in reality are the doors of heaven, are unlocked. No sooner had but a glimmer of its effulgent splendour shone forth upon the mirror of love than the blessed word ‘I am the Best-Beloved’ was reflected therein. It is an ocean inexhaustible in riches, comprehending all things.** Every thing which can be perceived is but an emanation therefrom.** High, immeasurably high is this sublime station, in whose shadow moveth the essence of loftiness and splendour, wrapt in praise and adoration.

reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/TB/tb-12.html
 
Vico said:
Others have said that the world is a necessary emanation arising from God
Click to expand...
Servant19…

It is not a person, otherwise it would not need to become flesh. It manifests as a person on earth only. Outside of physical creation it is essentially Spirit. Some philosophers in the past have called it the Soul of God.

It is the First and most Primal Emanation from the Essence of God.

It is the most fundamental aspect of God’s Essence.
 
MartinJordan said:
Servant, did you forget forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=13564849&postcount=950?

And I responded with:forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=13566057&postcount=955

Can you revert? 🙂

Since you mentioned about the last 10 pages. 🙂

MJ
Click to expand...
Thank you Martin.

Now that the troll has gone we can have respectful dialogue again…I hope…

I did read your response, however I still fail to understand why man comes into a teaching if it’s inspired by the Holy Spirit?

Is the entire Catechism a teaching of man or a teaching of the Holy Spirit?

.
 
Vico said:
There is only one will of God, the Trinity our Creator, who does good, yet His creations err to produce divisions. This is a pertinent section from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

285 Since the beginning the Christian faith has been challenged by responses to the question of origins that differ from its own. Ancient religions and cultures produced many myths concerning origins. Some philosophers have said that everything is God, that the world is God, or that the development of the world is the development of God (Pantheism). Others have said that the world is a necessary emanation arising from God and returning to him. Still others have affirmed the existence of two eternal principles, Good and Evil, Light and Darkness, locked, in permanent conflict (Dualism, Manichaeism). According to some of these conceptions, the world (at least the physical world) is evil, the product of a fall, and is thus to be rejected or left behind (Gnosticism). Some admit that the world was made by God, but as by a watch-maker who, once he has made a watch, abandons it to itself (Deism). Finally, others reject any transcendent origin for the world, but see it as merely the interplay of matter that has always existed (Materialism). All these attempts bear witness to the permanence and universality of the question of origins. This inquiry is distinctively human.

286 Human intelligence is surely already capable of finding a response to the question of origins. The existence of God the Creator can be known with certainty through his works, by the light of human reason,122 even if this knowledge is often obscured and disfigured by error. This is why faith comes to confirm and enlighten reason in the correct understanding of this truth:
"By faith we understand that the world was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was made out of things which do not appear."123
122 Cf. Vatican Council I, can. 2 § I: DS 3026.
123 Heb 11:3.

292 The Old Testament suggests and the New Covenant reveals the creative action of the Son and the Spirit,132 inseparably one with that of the Father. This creative co-operation is clearly affirmed in the Church’s rule of faith: “There exists but one God. . . he is the Father, God, the Creator, the author, the giver of order. He made all things by himself, that is, by his Word and by his Wisdom”, “by the Son and the Spirit” who, so to speak, are “his hands”.133 Creation is the common work of the Holy Trinity.

132 Cf. Ps 33:6; 104:30; Gen 1:2-3.
133 St. Irenaeus, Adv. haeres. 2,30,9; 4,20,I: PG 7/1,822,1032.
​
Click to expand...
Thank you Vico

Is the Catechism of the Catholic Church as a result of the Holy Spirit or as a result of the thoughts of man?

.
 
Techno2000 said:
Servant19…

It is not a person, otherwise it would not need to become flesh. It manifests as a person on earth only. Outside of physical creation it is essentially Spirit. Some philosophers in the past have called it the Soul of God.

It is the First and most Primal Emanation from the Essence of God.

It is the most fundamental aspect of God’s Essence.
Click to expand...
This difference lies in the fact that Christianity proposes that creation came into being at a certain point, whereas Baha’i theology calls for the eternal nature of creation.

God is not a Creator without a creation. If The Creator is eternal, then His creation must also be eternal.

.
 
Servant19 said:
This difference lies in the fact that Christianity proposes that creation came into being at a certain point, whereas Baha’i theology calls for the eternal nature of creation.

God is not a Creator without a creation. If The Creator is eternal, then His creation must also be eternal.

.
Click to expand...
Is this in agreement with Islamic theology too?
 
Servant19 said:
This difference lies in the fact that Christianity proposes that creation came into being at a certain point, whereas Baha’i theology calls for the eternal nature of creation.

God is not a Creator without a creation. If The Creator is eternal, then His creation must also be eternal.

.
Click to expand...
Only if you think ‘being creator’ is a logically necessary attribute of God.

How do you explain something eternal that is not God? How do you define ‘creation’ if it isn’t created as such?
 
Servant19 said:
This difference lies in the fact that Christianity proposes that creation came into being at a certain point, whereas Baha’i theology calls for the eternal nature of creation.

God is not a Creator without a creation. If The Creator is eternal, then His creation must also be eternal.

.
Click to expand...
There isn’t suppose to be any differences… remember… Servant19 🙂

XXIV: Beware, O believers in the Unity of God,…

Beware, O believers in the Unity of God, lest ye be tempted to make any distinction between any of the Manifestations of His Cause, or to discriminate against the signs that have accompanied and proclaimed their Revelation. This indeed is the true meaning of Divine Unity, if ye be of them that apprehend and believe this truth. Be ye assured, moreover, that the works and acts of each and every one of these Manifestations of God, nay whatever pertaineth unto them, and whatsoever they may manifest in the future, are all ordained by God, and are a reflection of His Will and Purpose.***Whoso maketh the slightest possible difference between their persons, their words, their messages, their acts and manners, hath indeed disbelieved in God,*hath repudiated His signs, and betrayed the Cause of His Messengers. **

reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/GWB/gwb-24.html
 
**Revelation **

Manifestations of God :

Abraham

Krishna

Zoroaster

Buddha

Jesus Christ

Muhammad

Báb

Bahá’u’lláh

Bahá’u’lláh writes, “If thou wilt observe with discriminating eyes, thou wilt behold them all abiding in the same tabernacle, soaring in the same heaven, seated upon the same throne, uttering the same speech, and proclaiming the same Faith.”

PS No wonder they can’t understand the Trinity

bahai.org/beliefs/god-his-creation/revelation/manifestations-god
 
Techno2000 said:
There isn’t suppose to be any differences… remember… Servant19 🙂

XXIV: Beware, O believers in the Unity of God,…

Beware, O believers in the Unity of God, lest ye be tempted to make any distinction between any of the Manifestations of His Cause, or to discriminate against the signs that have accompanied and proclaimed their Revelation. This indeed is the true meaning of Divine Unity, if ye be of them that apprehend and believe this truth. Be ye assured, moreover, that the works and acts of each and every one of these Manifestations of God, nay whatever pertaineth unto them, and whatsoever they may manifest in the future, are all ordained by God, and are a reflection of His Will and Purpose.***Whoso maketh the slightest possible difference between their persons, their words, their messages, their acts and manners, hath indeed disbelieved in God,*hath repudiated His signs, and betrayed the Cause of His Messengers. **

reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/GWB/gwb-24.html
Click to expand...
This passage is really about understanding the Trinity and not the differences that man makes with religion.

This passage is saying all the Prophets are but from the One God and are giving the same message.

It is saying look for the Unity and if we do not, we have rejected God for all time.

Regards Tony
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top