po18guy
Well-known member
We are not exactly debating with an unbiased source.
- Status
S
SunnaB16
Guest
The comments made by the great majority of NCR readers are worse than sickening.
Total contempt for the authority of the bishops, and venomous attacks on their individual characters. The language used borders on hatred, if not worse…
The spiritual termites are determined to hang on.
At least M Luther and Co had the decency to go off and start their own separate heretic groups.
The radical feminists and their male disciples throw tantrums like spoilt little children.
Talk about “NON SERVIAM”!
AnotherVoice:
you
Total contempt for the authority of the bishops, and venomous attacks on their individual characters. The language used borders on hatred, if not worse…
The spiritual termites are determined to hang on.
At least M Luther and Co had the decency to go off and start their own separate heretic groups.
The radical feminists and their male disciples throw tantrums like spoilt little children.
Talk about “NON SERVIAM”!
AnotherVoice:
you
re sure to be right about the invitations to give commencement addresses; but has the "good sister" forgotten our Lords words about millstones?
P
Pax_et_Bonum
Guest
Heterodox disobedient Catholics are beating a dead horse and should leave physically as they left spiritually long ago and their continued presence is scandalous and a tiresome nuisance.Most are children of the sixties who still haven’t made the Faith transition from immature disobedient rebellion to mature submission to the Truth.They are dragging credulous poorly catechized Catholics to possible perdition with them.
G
grannymh
Guest
Challenge #1
Please provide the English explanation for Imprimatur which often accompanies the designation. Please provide what may look like a substitute for the Imprimatur.
Why is the English explanation for Imprimatur key for writers seeking to present Catholic theology in a contemporary form?
Thank you.
Please provide the English explanation for Imprimatur which often accompanies the designation. Please provide what may look like a substitute for the Imprimatur.
Why is the English explanation for Imprimatur key for writers seeking to present Catholic theology in a contemporary form?
Thank you.
H
Holly3278
Guest
It sounds to me like this Sister Johnson needs to have more respect for our Bishops. She also needs to be more obedient to the Church.
G
grannymh
Guest
Challenge #2
Is there anyone interested in defending the Bishops’ position based on the answer to Challenge #1?
Thank you.
M
manualman
Guest
So let me get this straight, Sister. Your book is written as an instruction for laymen. But trained and educated theologians read it and completely misunderstood the intent of the message and got things out of it that you never meant people to. Is that your claim?
I’m no theologian myself, but my common sense reaction is that if educated theologians are hearing the wrong things by reading this book, it REALLY shouldn’t be in the hands of amatuers! Perhaps you should take their criticisms to heart and substantially revise the book until people who read it stop drawing erroneous conclusions. Just a thought.
I’m no theologian myself, but my common sense reaction is that if educated theologians are hearing the wrong things by reading this book, it REALLY shouldn’t be in the hands of amatuers! Perhaps you should take their criticisms to heart and substantially revise the book until people who read it stop drawing erroneous conclusions. Just a thought.
manygift1spirit
New member
I like this. It avoid the question of who has it wrong, and rather allows the Sister to properly get her exposition out after revision, while at the same time protects the reader from possible confusion or worse.
It also would give insight in the Sister’s mindset by observing how she responds to this suggestion. Especially if it comes down as more than just a suggestion.
T
Tigg
Guest
Therefore negating the hierarchical gifts (and the ministry/office conferred upon the episcopate) in comparison with the charismatic?
po18guy
Well-known member
As a Franciscan Brother CAF member maintains: If a Catholic cannot give assent to Catholic teaching in good conscience, they should consider leaving the faith. Does not this stand as evidence that modernists seek to impose their beliefs on others?
C
cojorgensen
Guest
I’ve not had much contact with NCR before, but that organization really speaks for itself when you read those comments. Only a few borderline-moderate disagreement comments have been allowed. In charity, I’ve posted some comments similar to what’s been asked of the Sister here, and yet none of them are appearing a day later. Yay for moderators.
It really hurts to see the bile and venomous hate that is spouted on so many of those comments. There is so much being stated there that demonstrates a complete lack of catechesis entirely, or an outright rejection of the Church.
Sure, maybe you think the Bishops have committed some personal sin in handling this “wrong”, however regardless of how they handled it, this is a faith and moral issue, their conclusion is protected by the HS. Their office is one to protect the faithful, and to exclude false doctrines from being taught as Catholic teaching.
It really hurts to see the bile and venomous hate that is spouted on so many of those comments. There is so much being stated there that demonstrates a complete lack of catechesis entirely, or an outright rejection of the Church.
Sure, maybe you think the Bishops have committed some personal sin in handling this “wrong”, however regardless of how they handled it, this is a faith and moral issue, their conclusion is protected by the HS. Their office is one to protect the faithful, and to exclude false doctrines from being taught as Catholic teaching.
V
Vistanow
Guest
… She states. Quest for the Living God presents theologies from around the world which are doing precisely this. The Statement faults the book for not being in accord with church teaching because it does not repeat established doctrinal formulas. Simply because things are said in a different way,What sor of things does she exactly mean? however, does not mean that traditional formulas of faith, let alone the core understanding of faith they convey, are being rejected. If it is not explicit thanit is overlooked, further it will be glossed over - the meaning will never be uncovered It is of course not the case that everything that theology says is correct, and here the episcopal teaching office has its proper role. But let me underscore the fact that this book does not deny, either explicitly or implicitly, any central doctrine of the church derived from scripture and creed.ok how can it not be so, since you are taking a modern view of doctrines without properly bringing to light and sight the ancient forms Rather, it represents how contemporary believers are seeking to express the ancient wisdom with new relevance.Is this relevance a divience from the truth - I think it is In this, it accords with the view of Pope John XXIII whose memorable opening speech to the Second Vatican Council called for formulation of doctrine in the literary forms of modern thought, since “the substance of the ancient doctrine of the deposit of faith is one thing, and the way in which it is presented is another.”It seems to me sister that you have magnify the ancient doctrine and and the relevance comes in if you can articulate the essence of stated form - signed by little child
C
cspb56
Guest
I have not read the book so I won’t comment on it but I find it interesting that she was never told by the bishops that they had issues with it. She was never allowed to face her accusers. It has also been noted that the bishops themselves did not follow the protocol set up for dealing with this very type of thing. People have said that there is no misunderstanding on the bishops part. Interestingly a number of years ago the writings of a priest whose name I can’t remember was called into question. As they should the bishops investigated the book and if I recall some other writings in question. The priest was aware of this investigation and was allowed to meet and respond to his accusers. That dialogue cleared things up about his writings and everything was fine after that. So the bishops obviously didn’t understand what was being conveyed but understood after the dialogue. Why was sister not allowed to defend her work?? That would be the proper thing to do. If her defense still falls short than condemn the book but not before she stands before her accusers. If I were sister I to would not be very happy with the bishops. Once again a procedure is in place to handle these things and they, like so many with the Dallas Charter, have ignored their own policies.
J
jilly4ski
Guest
Why should she be allowed to defend her book in person? Any student reading this in class or a lay person reading it off the shelf do not have the good sister right there to explain what she meant in her book. The Bishops and those critiquing the book are trained theologians, if they can’t understand what she means without drawing damaging conclusions, how can a lay person or student read it without drawing damaging conclusions? People who get their works per reviewed and critiqued don’t get to collaborate with the critics, they only find out afterwards when the critique is published, (just like the bishops were not given the opportunity to review her book before she published it).
C
Chaldean_Rite
Guest
looked more into CTSA…
Catholic Theological Society of America (CTSA)
Promotes dissent against Magisterial teachings and questions the authority of said teachings. A “theological wasteland” according to Bernard Cardinal Law (June 18, 1997).
Also was not impressed with article I read today:
ncronline.org/news/theology/fairfield-theologian-calls-more-humility-church
Said Lakeland: “Whether we are engaged in invidious and often ignorant comparisons between the holy church and the sinful world or spiritually empty comparisons between the fullness of truth in ‘our’ tradition and the defects of others, we are about the business of exclusion, sweeping aside God’s holy mystery to impose our fallible human considerations about where saints can be found.
Am I the only one who gets a slight distaste in their mouth reading this?
Catholic Theological Society of America (CTSA)
Promotes dissent against Magisterial teachings and questions the authority of said teachings. A “theological wasteland” according to Bernard Cardinal Law (June 18, 1997).
Also was not impressed with article I read today:
ncronline.org/news/theology/fairfield-theologian-calls-more-humility-church
Said Lakeland: “Whether we are engaged in invidious and often ignorant comparisons between the holy church and the sinful world or spiritually empty comparisons between the fullness of truth in ‘our’ tradition and the defects of others, we are about the business of exclusion, sweeping aside God’s holy mystery to impose our fallible human considerations about where saints can be found.
Am I the only one who gets a slight distaste in their mouth reading this?
P
Pax_et_Bonum
Guest
P
Pax_et_Bonum
Guest
Nope and I take issue with the adjective “slight”.looked more into CTSA…
Catholic Theological Society of America (CTSA)
Promotes dissent against Magisterial teachings and questions the authority of said teachings. A “theological wasteland” according to Bernard Cardinal Law (June 18, 1997).
Also was not impressed with article I read today:
ncronline.org/news/theology/fairfield-theologian-calls-more-humility-church
Said Lakeland: “Whether we are engaged in invidious and often ignorant comparisons between the holy church and the sinful world or spiritually empty comparisons between the fullness of truth in ‘our’ tradition and the defects of others, we are about the business of exclusion, sweeping aside God’s holy mystery to impose our fallible human considerations about where saints can be found.
Am I the only one who gets a slight distaste in their mouth reading this?
po18guy
Well-known member
The more nebulous their mission and/or vision statements, the more heterodox their intent. Knowing that they cannot force Church authority to change, they then subvert the faith by inculcating aberrant theology into the young, via their secular authority.looked more into CTSA…
Catholic Theological Society of America (CTSA)
Promotes dissent against Magisterial teachings and questions the authority of said teachings. A “theological wasteland” according to Bernard Cardinal Law (June 18, 1997).
Also was not impressed with article I read today:
ncronline.org/news/theology/fairfield-theologian-calls-more-humility-church
Said Lakeland: “Whether we are engaged in invidious and often ignorant comparisons between the holy church and the sinful world or spiritually empty comparisons between the fullness of truth in ‘our’ tradition and the defects of others, we are about the business of exclusion, sweeping aside God’s holy mystery to impose our fallible human considerations about where saints can be found.
Am I the only one who gets a slight distaste in their mouth reading this?
S
StAnastasia
Guest
Thanks for quoting it: Lakeland’s is a fine article:
“Inside the church similar crimes are being committed when a sub-group of the community, in the name of its convictions of what purity looks like and persuaded that it can speak for God, marginalizes others, whether they are the divorced, or gays and lesbians, or religious sisters going about their jobs, whether they are working in Catholic hospitals or in Congress, or, indeed, even if they are just theologians.”
There are more great sessions on tap for Saturday!
C
cojorgensen
Guest
I think NCR, and even the Sister is taking this too personally, as a personal attack from the USCCB.
Unfortunately many mistake Theology from the Magisterium, they think that if theologians create a reasoned answer, that it supersedes or undermines the Magisterium, it doesn’t, they’re two different organs of the Church.
From reading the Bishops document, the intent is to show that this book is not to be taken as Catholic Truth. It isn’t. If the Sister intended it to be a critique on the Church, and trying to speak about God as other than revealed by the Church … then she is just flat out wrong, and being corrected by the Magisterium. There are a lot of views out there, and a lot of theologians with teachings other than the Magisterium. The problem is that this book specifically was being used in undergrad formation classes. As shepherds, the bishops needed to be clear that some of this book’s teachings and views are non-Catholic, and opposed to the faith. That’s their job.
This is not a book that holds Catholic teaching, nor should it be taken as such, that’s merely what the bishops announced. The Sister can theorize about modern view of religion, and speak about that all and well … however the faithful need to realize that when applied to the Catholic faith, they are fundamentally disordered and untruthful.
Unfortunately many mistake Theology from the Magisterium, they think that if theologians create a reasoned answer, that it supersedes or undermines the Magisterium, it doesn’t, they’re two different organs of the Church.
From reading the Bishops document, the intent is to show that this book is not to be taken as Catholic Truth. It isn’t. If the Sister intended it to be a critique on the Church, and trying to speak about God as other than revealed by the Church … then she is just flat out wrong, and being corrected by the Magisterium. There are a lot of views out there, and a lot of theologians with teachings other than the Magisterium. The problem is that this book specifically was being used in undergrad formation classes. As shepherds, the bishops needed to be clear that some of this book’s teachings and views are non-Catholic, and opposed to the faith. That’s their job.
This is not a book that holds Catholic teaching, nor should it be taken as such, that’s merely what the bishops announced. The Sister can theorize about modern view of religion, and speak about that all and well … however the faithful need to realize that when applied to the Catholic faith, they are fundamentally disordered and untruthful.
- Status