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Sarcelle
Guest
He’s not just asking for advise though.
He came in and basically accused most women of being Jezebels. Human reaction would be defensiveness.
He clearly had an axe to grind.
Using most of the MGTOW Philosophy in choosing the right women?
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He came in and basically accused most women of being Jezebels. Human reaction would be defensiveness.
He clearly had an axe to grind.
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Sarcelle
Guest
Divorce is still illegal in the Philippines.
Unless it’s changed.
Unless it’s changed.
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CapitalistCatholic
Guest
MGTOW, in my opinion, is a culmination of all the frustrations of men whom women just don’t find attractive. In reveling in their bitterness and jealousy, they have become sour and hateful toward anyone who might not agree with them. For the philosophy itself, I find it very unhelpful. It’s what’s wrong with our modern age. Men and women have lost all respect for each other. Rather than complementing each other, they feel that one is against the other.
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redbetta
Guest
I’ll wait for him to come back to this thread to conclude that.
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Sarcelle
Guest
Okay, fair enough.
I don’t think he meant the name Jezebel as a compliment.
I don’t think he meant the name Jezebel as a compliment.
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redbetta
Guest
I don’t think he accused all women of being Jezebels. He just seems to be overwhelmed and is desperate for a sign that good women are out there.
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Lifeisbeautiful3
Guest
I think MGTOW is a response to no fault divorce. A person with limited/no income can marry and have kids and legally leave a spouse and collect alimony and child support (often a significant sum). This could be premeditated, or in response to ‘getting bored’. Mind you, these are not Catholic ideals, but the prevailing attitude is slowly skewing this direction.
Where else in law can a contract to stay together be broken with no penalty (and in this case a financial incentive)??
Where else in law can a contract to stay together be broken with no penalty (and in this case a financial incentive)??
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gracepoole
Guest
So here’s the apparent takeaway from this thread: no one here knows what third wave feminism actually is.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
Filipino women are as diverse and individual as are American women or British women or Russian women or Chilean women.
I once struck up a conversation with a man who said he wanted to find a Filipino wife because Filipino women were submissive and old fashioned. By dear friend, a woman from the Philippines, and I simply cracked up laughing.
I once struck up a conversation with a man who said he wanted to find a Filipino wife because Filipino women were submissive and old fashioned. By dear friend, a woman from the Philippines, and I simply cracked up laughing.
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PetraG
Guest
This is from Wikipedia, but take it for what its worth:
According to feminist scholar Elizabeth Evans, the “confusion surrounding what constitutes third-wave feminism is in some respects its defining feature.”
Third-wave feminism - Wikipedia
I don’t know how you agree on what is a just society for women (which is what feminists often argue is all they want) when you cannot agree on what women do and don’t need, what women do and don’t want, or what women and men should and should not expect from each other.
Honestly, I think it is better to retreat to Mere Christianity and take sides on these battles based on the faith. If the feminists are fighting for something the Lord would want us to fight for, OK, fine. It is not as if we quit fighting for people to be treated fairly in the workplace just because some commmunists are doing it. Politics makes strange bedfellows, but especially if you belong to a kingdom that is not of this world and one which has had its own blood-serious unity problems since before our nation was founded.
As for MGTOW, it is one of the “isms” based on the premise of the shrinking pie–to get what is good for me, I have to deny something to you. We can’t be on the same side, we can’t be happier dividing the pie together so everyone can have what they need to get by. In short: we cannot trust each other, so we have to decide we don’t need each other, anyone. It is a sour grapes mindset. It is not the mind of Christ, but the mind of the world. Don’t try to cherry pick good ideas out of it. Leave it behind and stick with the Faith. The Faith has enough to guide you.
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Lea101
Guest
Many early Christians thought feminists fighting for jobs were going against God’s design. That was what JPII was alluding to in his Letter To Women.
The culture does have an effect on the church (I’m not talking about doctrines/dogma before anyone starts planning my execution, lol).
But yea, basically my point was that people used faith to justify old fashioned and Liberal views. It’s not easy to say we should retreat to Christianity when christianity looked really different depending on where you’re at.
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PetraG
Guest
We as Christians aren’t immune from worldly mindsets which ignore the dignity of some of us. St. James said as much when he chided his readers about the difference between how they treated the rich and the poor among the brethren gathering at their homes. We have to realize we cannot expect the devil will just leave us alone because we’ve been baptized. We are called the Church Militant for a reason–and the fight is not primarily with the world, excepting in the sense that we fight against the world, the flesh and the devil tempting us. The fight is primarily with sin, including the sin and the blindness of sin that we keep returning to in spite of the grace offered to us by faith.
What, after all, did Our Lord tell us to do when others try to exploit or misuse us?
“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, offer no resistance to one who is evil. When someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other one to him as well. If anyone wants to go to law with you over your tunic, hand him your cloak as well. Should anyone press you into service for one mile, go with him for two miles. Give to the one who asks of you, and do not turn your back on one who wants to borrow. Matt. 5:38-40
Those are the red letters, the plainest teachings of the Lord. We can’t embrace philosophies that reject the words of the Lord without rejecting the Lord, since he also said: “If you love me, you will keep my commandments." (John 14:15)
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Londoner
Guest
He made some pretty extreme claims: women exploit men, women use men as slaves, women regard men as garbage, it is not illegal for a woman to make a false allegation of rape, the only kind of woman who would marry him would be like Jezebel. He also talked about patriarchy being “hevel”. I don’t really know where he is going with that one, although I suspect that he may make a valid point, albeit coming from the wrong approach. We’d need somebody with an in-depth knowledge of biblical Hebrew. The fact that he is resorting to using the language of Ecclesiastes suggests that he has peculiarly strong feelings about the subject of patriarchy. I don’t think this is somebody who is just overwhelmed and looking for advice. I think this is somebody with deeply held misogynistic opinions and also a completely unrealistic perception of the world.
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Sarcelle
Guest
He was attributing the quotes to what he thinks women believe.
The term “hevel” may just be a portmanteau of he + evil.
Unless he comes back we will never know for sure.
There has been in the past some posters that come from the red pill sites to ask questions and then disappear to share the answers with others in the red pill site.
I have a sneaking suspicion he is one of those.
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redbetta
Guest
First of all, he seems young and may not have had much exposure to the wider world. The distorted view of women probably comes either from the Internet or college where radical feminists tend to scream the loudest. Also, I think “hevel” is just to parody how people online type “evil.” It’s kind of in the same vein as “wamen” and “muh cundishuns.”
Also, there are lots of women that exploit men out there and, while it’s illegal to make a false rape claim, women often get off with a slap on the wrist unless they are a repeat offender.
Also, there are lots of women that exploit men out there and, while it’s illegal to make a false rape claim, women often get off with a slap on the wrist unless they are a repeat offender.
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Lea101
Guest
I don’t disagree.
I just feel like like ditching social movements and relying on a church to guide us on these issues is more of a privilege that you and me can take. Since we already have basic human rights.
The Church didn’t give me the right/access to an education/job/etc, it was those feminists. The church wasn’t even in favour until some time later. Church fathers and Saint have said really odd things too. People were taught things that our Church despises today.
On second thought, I feel like I may be responding to the sentiment (rather than your point) some express here: that they don’t identify as democrat/republican/feminist/etc but only Catholic. I always find it a little silly.
I just feel like like ditching social movements and relying on a church to guide us on these issues is more of a privilege that you and me can take. Since we already have basic human rights.
The Church didn’t give me the right/access to an education/job/etc, it was those feminists. The church wasn’t even in favour until some time later. Church fathers and Saint have said really odd things too. People were taught things that our Church despises today.
On second thought, I feel like I may be responding to the sentiment (rather than your point) some express here: that they don’t identify as democrat/republican/feminist/etc but only Catholic. I always find it a little silly.
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PetraG
Guest
If all we say is what the Church says, it doesn’t matter if he is honest or not.
The truth can stand to be put on a lampstand; if it is put in a high place by those who mean to present it wrongly, it will still shine.
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PetraG
Guest
I am not saying that no one in the Church should challenge anyone in leadership to really look at whether their views are in sync with the Gospel. Isn’t that what St. Paul did to St. Peter…didn’t he challenge whether his actions were in keeping with the Gospel? He did! St. Paul was just a convert, and St. Peter was the head of the Apostles, but St. Paul wasn’t bringing in some outside principle to make his point. He was challenging St. Peter to test what he was doing against what the Faith teaches. Likewise, consider when the Lord was conversing with the Samaritan woman at the well, he disciples came back "and were amazed that he was talking with a woman, but still no one said, “What are you looking for?” or “Why are you talking with her?” (John 4:27) Even she had asked him bluntly, "How can you, a Jew, ask me, a Samaritan woman, for a drink?” (John 4:9) The boundaries of men creep into the Church, but that doesn’t mean they are the boundaries of the Lord. The Lord has different standards.
Look at what St. Catherine of Siena did. We don’t have a Church in which laypeople can only be saints if they sit down and shut up and do as they’re told. No, sometimes they have to have a prophetic voice and persuade the heirarchy to turn their course back to where it ought to be–and yet St. Catherine did it with great respect. The saints don’t do that from the point of an outside movevment, though. These great movements lead by saints come from the Holy Spirit, not human philosophies.
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puppson
Guest
Join a Traditional Latin Mass parish.
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Lea101
Guest
Yea, but sometimes the change needs to be done in the secular realm of society. These saints ““fixed”” (in quotes because it is a very simplistic way of describing their work) issues within the church. There are Catholic women trying to address sexism within the Church, but I wasn’t thinking of that. I was thinking about public policy, social attitudes.
To fix this, you would have to take your fight outside to the courts/streets. When you do that, you’re technically creating a social movement.
To fix this, you would have to take your fight outside to the courts/streets. When you do that, you’re technically creating a social movement.
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