Using most of the MGTOW Philosophy in choosing the right women?

[PetraG]

That sounds… remarkable. 20 women? Wow. Most men I know haven’t dated 20 women, let alone had 20 women treat them this way. Where do you meet them all? How do you manage to have such bad luck? You mention ‘all their false accusations against me’. Are these the false rape allegations you referred to in your earlier post?

I was gonna say, if he actually dated 20 whole women then he deserves a cookie just for having that many dates.
The vast majority of guys I know have dated less than 10 and some of them have dated more like 1 or 2.

Someone who is far too quick to be handsomely kind with no return could easily lose count of all the people who take advantage of their ill-advised generosity, wouldn’t you say? Rushing into a relationship with the wrong kind of slick-talking person is a bad habit that some kind-hearted souls are remarkably slow to give up. They’re just too trusting. It is heart-breaking to watch, because they’re usually the kind who will literally give you the shirts off their backs.

 

[Londoner]

Somebody who goes on an Internet forum and names himself “The Lowest Human Being” likely has a real problem with self-respect that is visible to women and everybody else.

I had assumed that it had some kind of theological significance, like when St Paul in 1 Cor. 15: 8 compares himself to a miscarried foetus and goes on to talk about his unworthiness and how he is the least of the apostles.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

IDK, most guys who are sad because they’ve been “taken advantage of” weren’t viewing the relationship realistically from the start. They were expecting to get something in return for whatever nice stuff they did and it just didn’t happen. Sure, there are abusive people out there who take advantage, but there are also people who react very badly to rejection and paint odd pictures of it.

 

[PetraG]

IDK, most guys who are sad because they’ve been “taken advantage of” weren’t viewing the relationship realistically from the start. They were expecting to get something in return for whatever nice stuff they did and it just didn’t happen. Sure, there are abusive people out there who take advantage, but there are also people who react very badly to rejection and paint odd pictures of it.

You’re right about being unrealistic, and it’s not just guys. There are people who rush in to be too giving of themselves. They quickly run off ethical people who aren’t comfortable with someone who seems “too good to be true,” because ethical and yet prudent people are neither ready to give that much that quickly nor willing to take that much without giving themselves at a similar level. The unscrupulous have no problem taking everything they can get from anyone who will let them talk them out of it. They have a radar for those who are quick to hand it all over in the hopes of realizing a beautiful fantasy.

 

[Londoner]

In general, I agree, but we’re talking about some kind of a dating situation here, not just being taken advantage of by unscrupulous acquaintances. However trusting and kind-hearted I was, I honestly doubt that I’d find 20 women to date, unless I went on some kind of sugar daddy website or went on Tinder describing myself as a trusting and kind-hearted millionaire. Also, what are the chances that 20 out of 20 women a man dates will all turn out to be taking advantage of his kind and trusting nature? That sounds like more than a series of coincidences.

 

[Edmundus1581]

Edmundus1581:

also to guess at what is “attractive” to women, and women are very coy about this.

Way to stereotype women. Some of 'em will flat out tell you what they want. Ever try asking one? If she’s coy, then tell her you don’t have time to play games and move on.

Way to snip an extract out of context. Maybe you disagree with the whole context, and that’s fine, but I’m not going to defend this snip without the context.

FWIW, I was raised by a single mum and also her mothers, and they taught me to “respect” women, to be a “gentlemen” - all the stuff which is generally pushed on men as women’s expectations. I slowly and painfully learned that this is not what women want. In general, of course - there are exceptions to every rule.

The plague of mal-adjusted fatherless sons is testament to women’s inability to pass on to their sons any guidance in attracting women. Either they don’t know, or they want their boys to fail.

I learned from the knock-backs and also by observing the men who women do find attractive. A few sweet older ladies gave me some tips, quite slyly. I couldn’t mimic height or sporting success, but fortunately there was enough left to play with.

I wouldn’t dream of asking a woman what she’s looking for in a man, and if such information were offered I’d do the opposite if I were really interested in her.

 

[PetraG]

In general, I agree, but we’re talking about some kind of a dating situation here, not just being taken advantage of by unscrupulous acquaintances. However trusting and kind-hearted I was, I honestly doubt that I’d find 20 women to date, unless I went on some kind of sugar daddy website or went on Tinder describing myself as a trusting and kind-hearted millionaire. Also, what are the chances that 20 out of 20 women a man dates will all turn out to be taking advantage of his kind and trusting nature? That sounds like more than a series of coincidences.

Let’s just say that there are guys like that who can run off an ethical woman in about three minutes. Someone who gives very generously in a very needy way raises red flags. It is blood in the water for a manipulative personality, though. Again: this is true for both men and women. When it is a nice person who gets that needy and tries too hard in a romantic situation, it is heartbreaking, because of course you’d rather they just find a nice person. Still, you understand why careful people are run off. They get “serious” so fast that hurting them deeply is a near-certainty if you go down that road.

 

[redbetta]

Okay now, let’s not paint with too broad of a brush here. Some women don’t know what they want in a man or find out the hard way that what she thought she wants wasn’t really what’s good for here. It depends on a lot of things. I think having a good father figure and other good male figures growing up helps women know what a good potential mate looks like. It’s not just the fatherless sons that are mal-adjusted.

 

[Edmundus1581]

… I think having a good father figure and other good male figures growing up helps women know what a good potential mate looks like. It’s not just the fatherless sons that are mal-adjusted.

Good points.

A good father figure is indeed a blessing to a young woman, and many don’t have one. Unfortunately, often a potentially “good father figure” is run down his wife and society, and he puts up with it because there is simply no choice. Not enough women teach their daughters to respect men.

 

[Londoner]

I don’t disagree. I have a friend who is a really nice chap and when I met his girlfriend I just knew it wasn’t going to end well, and a few weeks later she’d broken up with him—to his surprise, but not to mine. But it only happened to him the once. It’s just the frequency with which the OP says this happens. Where does one find 20 manipulative women to date? I mean, maybe if he’s a really nice, really needy Calvin Klein model or something.

 

[redbetta]

Tinder maybe.

 

[redbetta]

I think women need to get out of this “girl power” mentality and make more male friends. We are so tribalistic as a society.

 

[Edmundus1581]

A lot of men are drawn to it? There is nothing to back this up. As part of my job, I follow pop culture and demographic trends. This sort of group-think may exist in certain social sub-cultures but aside from that theory, it doesn’t exist in real common life.

Choosing the “right” women involves a finite set of factors with a finite set of defined limits. An “us versus them” approach is never productive. Should I expect any woman I meet to produce a card with her bona fides? Sheesh. I’m getting tired of ‘let’s throw it against the wall and see if it sticks’ experiments.

In your following of trends have you not seen:

1. The widespread demonisation of men and masculinity in society (and often the Church);
2. The amount of legislation, money and attention which is expended on furthering women at the expense of men;
3. The carnage among men of divorces which have been initiated by women;
4. Marriages which started out with best intentions, only to settle into a status quo of servitude by the husband?

This is what single men, young and old see, and they realise that marriage is a roll of the dice where there is a large possibility of it destroying their life. We make “due diligence” in selecting a spouse but there are no guarentees and for a man the probability and cost of a bad outcome are too high.

So, I endorse MGTOW both as a life choice, and also a philosophy for men who are dating.

You may be correct that not a lot of men have been drawn to it yet. Young men are stupid when it comes to “love” and are eager to be heroes, but I for one will continue to hope that many more wake up before falling into the trap of modern “marriage”.

There are also women who advocate MGTOW both from a sense of justice, or for the safety of their sons.

And, BTW, I’ve got skin in this game, with a son currently in a long term relationship. He’s not a practicing Catholic, but generally a sensible, likable and promising young man. She is a lovely girl and they have a very strong relationship, but my prognosis for their future is that they will have children, possibly marry (they’re both a bit “traditional”), and that she will eventually leave him. It’s like watching a slow train wreck.

 

[PetraG]

I mean, maybe if he’s a really nice, really needy Calvin Klein model or something.

I don’t know that female manipulators always want men with looks as much they look to target a compliant and trusting man with an open wallet who is willing to be at the beck and call of whatever very urgent “difficulty” they claim to need rescuing from.

Manipulators love kind-hearted people who are all too ready to come to the “rescue” of a pitable case. That goes for the male and the female kind. Really–don’t we all know people who have had just one bad relationship after another? Nice people, a lot of times the kind that sell themselves way too short, but they are also too quick to go out far of their way for someone with a sad story to tell. It takes someone who is way too optimistic about others and way too pessimistic about himself or herself. Sometimes they have had manipulative parents who put them down and only gave them tidbits of praise when they went out of their way to conform to the parent’s selfish whims.

 

[gracepoole]

They have a strong relationship, she’s a lovely girl, and they’re traditionally-minded about family but you believe she’ll leave him after having children because…she’s a woman? My husband and I have children and have been married for 22 years. Save abuse, there’s nothing that could inspire me to abandon my vows, this man, or our family.

BTW, you support MGTOW. Would you prefer, then, that your son not follow a God-given calling to marriage if he receives one? Just one more reason why this “movement” and Catholicism are completely incompatible.

 

[Lou2U]

I confess that I had very bad experiences of women. I was innocent back then. They manipulate me, treat me like an ATM Machine, they are so mean that i can’t hardly go to sleep for all their false accusations against me that I cry every nightime, they always make the situation always in their favour, etc… I was so very kind to them and i was like the best man that a girl could ever have. Whatever request she ask i always grant it even how painful and disadvantaged i am. At the end the MGTOW awaken me from that abuse but i know something is fishy with MGTOW like hating women in general which is so wrong so I formulated this post “Using most of the MGTOW Philosophy in choosing the right woman?” I was really hurt with all the post here and judgements that you brought all upon me.

I have been through with 20 women with this kind of experience.

A few points that occurred to me:

1. You have your own personal agency. You are not obliged to keep dating someone who treats you badly, someone who doesn’t respect you. What you need to do when you date is to keep that in mind and work alongside it.
2. I really think you should get some counseling to help your self-esteem and to talk about why you seem to attract abusive women. I recommend you do this before you start dating again.
3. Remember - you are not a doormat. If someone is treating you that way, they aren’t a good person to have in your life.
4. MGTOW is a bad philosophy. You also need to work on getting rid of the assumptions you now have from listening to it.
5. I don’t believe anyone on this thread has set out to hurt you. People have given really good advice, and I hope it is helpful to you.

 

[TheLowestHumanBeing]

What an awesome advice brother Lou2U. Thanks.

 

[Qoheleth1]

MGTOW is, to be quite frank, ridiculous and pathethic.

While it is true that some women cheat some men out of their livelihoods, and that men are unfairly treated in the civil court system, the generalization that all women are hyper-hypergamous or “gold-diggers” is obscene and a reduction of the soul and spirit of a beautiful creation of God.

One must remember that jerks come in both sexes.

If you’re looking for a good woman, go to the church. Good does not mean perfect and it never has.

 

[Edmundus1581]

They have a strong relationship, she’s a lovely girl, and they’re traditionally-minded about family but you believe she’ll leave him after having children because…she’s a woman? My husband and I have children and have been married for 22 years. Save abuse, there’s nothing that could inspire me to abandon my vows, this man, or our family.

BTW, you support MGTOW. Would you prefer, then, that your son not follow a God-given calling to marriage if he receives one? Just one more reason why this “movement” and Catholicism are completely incompatible.

Yes, because that’s what women do. They change and become bored with their husbands and start to see them as a burden. It’s especially likely to happen if another man is available. In previous generations marriage vows prevented an exit of their own volition, but that constraint has been removed. We live in a society which is constantly reminding us of men’s failures and women’s entitlement to better behavior from them, but no balance that would expect better behavior from the wife.

If the scales of divorce were as heavily tilted in favor of men as they are now for women, ie. they can simply initiate the divorce by choice, and take the children and assets, then I’d fear more for my daughters. In that case it would be the husband no longer enjoying his wife, and seeing her as an obstacle and possibly having a more attractive alternative. But those days are long gone, if they ever were. It costs a lot for a man to voluntarily divorce his wife after they have children. Yes, they do and have always done - but the legal balances are heavily in favor of wives, and the more unscrupulous she is the better she can do out of it. Here in Australia (and I suspect the US) the law encourages false accusations of “abuse”. I’ve seen it up close more than once.

I commend your dedication to your marriage and family!

 

[Qoheleth1]

You understand men have higher rates of infidelity?