Using most of the MGTOW Philosophy in choosing the right women?

[PetraG]

Yea, but sometimes the change needs to be done in the secular realm of society. These saints ““fixed”” (in quotes because it is a very simplistic way of describing their work) issues within the church. There are Catholic women trying to address sexism within the Church, but I wasn’t thinking of that. I was thinking about public policy, social attitudes.

To fix this, you would have to take your fight outside to the courts/streets. When you do that, you’re technically creating a social movement.

Let’s clarify: I don’t mean that it is forbidden or always unwise for a Catholic to belong to a secular political movement. I do mean that we have to be very careful about it. It is the temptation of what C.S. Lewis called “Christianity and”

Whichever he adopts, your main task will be the same. Let him begin by treating the Patriotism or the Pacifism as a part of his religion. Then let him, under the influence of partisan spirit, come to regard it as the most important part. Then quietly and gradually nurse him on to the stage at which the religion becomes merely part of the “cause”, in which Christianity is valued chiefly because of the excellent arguments it can produce in favour of the British war-effort or of Pacifism. The attitude which you want to guard against is that in which temporal affairs are treated primarily as material for obedience. Once you have made the World an end, and faith a means, you have almost won your man, and it makes very little difference what kind of worldly end he is pursuing. Provided that meetings, pamphlets, policies, movements, causes, and crusades, matter more to him than prayers and sacraments and charity, he is ours—and the more “religious” (on those terms) the more securely ours. I could show you a pretty cageful down here,

*Your affectionate uncle *
SCREWTAPE

and

MY DEAR WORMWOOD,

The real trouble about the set your patient is living in is that it is merely Christian. They all have individual interests, of course, but the bond remains mere Christianity. What we want, if men become Christians at all, is to keep them in the state of mind I call “Christianity And”. You know—Christianity and the Crisis, Christianity and the New Psychology, Christianity and the New Order, Christianity and Faith Healing, Christianity and Psychical Research, Christianity and Vegetarianism, Christianity and Spelling Reform. If they must be Christians let them at least be Christians with a difference. Substitute for the faith itself some Fashion with a Christian colouring…

 

[PetraG]

I see us as being in a “must and yet” situation, then. We must each respond to the duties we see we have, which will be different for each one of us. We don’t all have exactly the same work to do. Some will be active in some areas, some in others, and political action is of course one of those areas. What we cannot afford to do, however, is to allow our particular duties to split us off more into allegiance to a political party or faction rather than allegiance to the Gospel. We must particularly not find ourselves defending a political party when it is clearly at odds with Christian teaching. I don’t see how it is possible to give total allegiance to either of the major parties in the US, because neither one even tries to allign itself with the Gospel and only the Gospel. These aren’t Catholic parties, and even if they were we would have to distinguish between the faith and something with the name “Catholic” attached to it.

In other words: The job of the major parties is to get both our votes and the votes of other people they need to gain power. Our job is to support only the political action that is in keeping with the Gospel and to oppose or refrain from supporting the rest. That isn’t going to make us into very attractive political partisans, but so be it. Even if we conclude one candidate is clearly better than a rival in terms of garnering our votes, we still have to object to our candidate when our candidate is making poor choices.

 

[Lea101]

We must particularly not find ourselves defending a political party when it is clearly at odds with Christian teaching. I don’t see how it is possible to give total allegiance to either of the major parties in the US, because neither one even tries to allign itself with the Gospel and only the Gospel. These aren’t Catholic parties, and even if they were we would have to distinguish between the faith and something with the name “Catholic” attached to it.

100% agree. Blind loyalty is really common unfortunately. There are issues that I stand with feminists, and then there are some that I walk away from because they are sinful acts.

 

[PetraG]

100% agree. Blind loyalty is really common unfortunately. There are issues that I stand with feminists, and then there are some that I walk away from because they are sinful acts.

Blind loyalty is currently the coin of the realm in politics. It has proven to be in the interest of political operatives to demonize their opponents. They get by with it because we, the voters, allow it.

I think we’re all being taken for suckers, quite frankly–that is, too many of us actually believe that our “side” is 100% white and shining and all its sins are forgivable because the other side is so blatantly and willfully evil. Nope. It is not that simple. How we can believe this in light of what we know about even what our own bishops can fall into out of human weakness might well be asked!! No. We need to see our fellow human beings as flawed creatures like us who need to operate in the light of day and need to question themselves and have themselves questioned. There are things about which the Church is beyond question, but obviously there are times and issues about which raising questions is not just allowed but necessary.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

I think if there were some more Catholic based websites on men and masculinity

Yes, and/or if people would put turn off the internet once in a while and go outside into the actual world and learn how to interact through real life experience and not be a-scared to even fail sometimes!

 

[Lea101]

too many of us actually believe that our “side” is 100% white and shining

Not to mention the amount of anger and rage we direct when proven wrong.

I remember telling a guy into MGTOW that a lot of their premises were incorrect (I.e. They misinterpreted the studies) and yikes. The amount of hate I got and even a rape threat (or more of a wish, actually). Ridiculous!

I do believe in asking questions, challenging view points. I guess that would sum up my main issue in politics and religion, especially the latter requires faith and obedience to some degree. Thankfully though, compared to most out there, the Catholic Church welcomes such conversations a lot more readily.

 

[PetraG]

Yes, and/or if people would put turn off the internet once in a while and go outside into the actual world and learn how to interact through real life experience and not be a-scared to even fail sometimes!

With smaller families (which we do have partly because even Catholics feel a need to get more education or more work experience prior to marriage just out of economic prudence, so people start having families later), there are also more families with boys who have no sisters and girls who have no brothers. It makes it harder for people to see the opposite sex as belonging to the same species they do, lol. Girls with brothers and boys with sisters don’t see the opposite sex so much as aliens.

 

[TheLowestHumanBeing]

I confess that I had very bad experiences of women. I was innocent back then. They manipulate me, treat me like an ATM Machine, they are so mean that i can’t hardly go to sleep for all their false accusations against me that I cry every nightime, they always make the situation always in their favour, etc… I was so very kind to them and i was like the best man that a girl could ever have. Whatever request she ask i always grant it even how painful and disadvantaged i am. At the end the MGTOW awaken me from that abuse but i know something is fishy with MGTOW like hating women in general which is so wrong so I formulated this post “Using most of the MGTOW Philosophy in choosing the right woman?” I was really hurt with all the post here and judgements that you brought all upon me.

I have been through with 20 women with this kind of experience.

 

[TheLowestHumanBeing]

This is strongly true.

Question. Do i really have to be an Alpha Male so that these women will repect me for who I am?

 

[redbetta]

“These women,” like the kind you described above, are not the kind of women you want respect from. The thing is is it seems you’ve been coming across some really trashy women. Study up on the signs of manipulative and overall bad people so that you know to pull away before you get hurt. For example, if you’re out on a date someplace, look at how this woman treats service workers. It shows how they act around people who have no choice but to put up with them for the most part, like a spouse or a parent.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Somebody who goes on an Internet forum and names himself “The Lowest Human Being” likely has a real problem with self-respect that is visible to women and everybody else.

Men who have to put on the image of an “Alpha Male” also are usually fighting off some feeling of low self-esteem, the same way as a woman who paints herself as a big feminist is often doing the same. People with good self-esteem just go out there and be leaders and be successes. They don’t sit around worrying about their image or what “philosophy” to use when picking a date unless it’s something really basic like “must have a good job and a good sense of humor and must not be married, divorced or living with a partner.”

Just sayin’.

 

[Cruciferi]

no one here knows what third wave feminism actually is

• It sounds foreboding
• Possibly Nautical
• It scares Men

Eeeek!​

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I was so very kind to them and i was like the best man that a girl could ever have. Whatever request she ask i always grant it even how painful and disadvantaged i am

I’m sorry but this sounds like a doormat.

How about you just be a person? If you don’t want to happily grant some woman’s request, tell her No, you don’t have the money, or No, you have to be at work in the morning, and you’ll do something with her next weekend instead. If she gets mad and stomps off, no great loss, call the next woman on your list.

There are worse things in life than being alone, like being with someone who expects you to jump at their every request and never does nice things for you. You need to just not need women and then you will probably get them because healthy people don’t pick out needy people to date.

 

[Edmundus1581]

He’s just young and looking for sanity in a clown world. For all you know, he might have had a lot of bad experiences with women and just needs reassurance that good ones are out there.

Honestly, people are too harsh on the single guys who come on here asking for advice.

Yes and yes!

Such has always been the way, I think. To marry, a man has to raise himself out of his comfort zone to both prove himself as a provider and also to guess at what is “attractive” to women, and women are very coy about this. For most men, a string of rejections and mild rebukes is part of the learning process. I’ve heard of many men who were rejected at first by a woman who had actually set her heart on him, but made him prove himself.

That’s all fine, I think, and part of the complicated game of matching up. “Jacob loved Rachel so much that he labored for her for seven years”.

But these days it’s a fools errand for a man to even start on it, without being aware of the imbalances against men in society at large and in marriage as a contract, and the utterly delusional expectations of “modern woman”, as a type, seen in the media and even the Church. Sadly, the worst of these make it harder for other women to find a spouse.

Even as a sixty year old man active in a parish, I find that older women are still very up-front in scolding men. It’s also one way - a man would never dream of scolding a woman for making a “mistake” (which maybe just her opinion) in the liturgy, for not volunteering when they expect it, etc…

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As to the topic, I generally endorse the OP’s thoughts, but there is one glaring problem which pre-empts other responses, and that is his user name TheLowestHumanBeing. Perhaps this has been raised, but I haven’t seen it. First of all, I urge you to re-think whatever took you there. It’s fine as a historical reference to Catholic humility, but simply not fine as any sort of self identification in the dating world.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

I have been through with 20 women with this kind of experience.

I am not saying this to be mean. It is coming from a place of Christian charity. If you have had the same experience with 20 women, you might consider doing some self-reflection. It can’t be that all 20 of these women were horrible abusive people…

 

[gracepoole]

• Possibly Nautical

 

[Tis_Bearself]

also to guess at what is “attractive” to women, and women are very coy about this.

Way to stereotype women. Some of 'em will flat out tell you what they want. Ever try asking one? If she’s coy, then tell her you don’t have time to play games and move on.

 

[PetraG]

I confess that I had very bad experiences of women. I was innocent back then. They manipulate me, treat me like an ATM Machine, they are so mean that i can’t hardly go to sleep for all their false accusations against me that I cry every nightime, they always make the situation always in their favour, etc… I was so very kind to them and i was like the best man that a girl could ever have. Whatever request she ask i always grant it even how painful and disadvantaged i am. At the end the MGTOW awaken me from that abuse but i know something is fishy with MGTOW like hating women in general which is so wrong so I formulated this post “Using most of the MGTOW Philosophy in choosing the right woman?” I was really hurt with all the post here and judgements that you brought all upon me.

I have been through with 20 women with this kind of experience.

I can believe you, because there is a certain kind of unscrupulous person who is always on the lookout for a big-hearted target to fleece.

Both men and women can become easily disillusioned after being preyed upon by those who cover a manipulative intentions with a charming front. One expert on sociopaths has said that they are always on the lookout for someone who is selfless and quick to pity those in need. Pity is carte blanche for a self-centered person who has no conscience.

She proposed the Rule of Threes to avoid this kind of friend, co-worker or romantic interest:
“When considering a new relationship of any kind, practice the Rule of Threes regarding the claims and promises a person makes, and the responsibilities he or she has. Make the Rule of Threes your personal policy. One lie, one broken promise, or a single neglected responsibility may be a misunderstanding instead. Two may involve a serious mistake. But three lies says you’re dealing with a liar, and deceit is the linchpin of conscienceless behavior. Cut your losses and get out as soon as you can. Leaving, though it may be hard, will be easier now than later, and less costly. Do not give your money, your work, your secrets, or your affection to a three-timer. Your valuable gifts will be wasted."
(Martha Stout, author, The Sociopath Next Door)

A Christian should help those in need, but that is not the same as trusting everyone who claims to have a need. We must practice diligence, lest we make ourselves into a near occasion of sin for thieves and cons.

Do not try to fix such a person and never try to get back at them. When you see someone is a liar, disintangle quietly and without rancor. Get off of their radar and stay out of their mind!! Some of these people have no bottom to their vindictiveness. You don’t want to be their target, because some will gladly harm themselves in exchange for the pleasure of harming someone they’re angry with.

 

[Londoner]

I have been through with 20 women with this kind of experience.

That sounds… remarkable. 20 women? Wow. Most men I know haven’t dated 20 women, let alone had 20 women treat them this way. Where do you meet them all? How do you manage to have such bad luck? You mention ‘all their false accusations against me’. Are these the false rape allegations you referred to in your earlier post?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

That sounds… remarkable. 20 women? Wow. Most men I know haven’t dated 20 women

I was gonna say, if he actually dated 20 whole women then he deserves a cookie just for having that many dates.
The vast majority of guys I know have dated less than 10 and some of them have dated more like 1 or 2.
I’m not even sure if I dated 20 guys before I was married. I’ll have to stop and count on my fingers.
Edited to add, I came up with something like 22 give or take, between age 15 and age 31.