Vaccinations Should Be Mandatory - Ben Carson

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Joe_5859 said:
I don’t really have a problem with place-specific or situation-specific requirements. If an individual has an objection to the vaccines, they can choose other options for them and their family (e.g. choose another profession other than the medical or teaching profession, choose to homeschool, etc.)

But the idea of requiring it across the board with no wiggle room is scary. How would such a thing be enforced? Prison? Recurring fines? Forced injections? That all seems very heavy-handed and not particularly respectful of individual liberty.

I like the proposal SWolf mentioned. Better to encourage through incentives rather than mandate under threat of punishment.
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I do agree with you. Currently in Michigan, there is a family of 4 being threaten with removal because they are refusing to vaccinate their children for measles.
 
robwar said:
I do agree with you. Currently in Michigan, there is a family of 4 being threaten with removal because they are refusing to vaccinate their children for measles.
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What’s amazing about that case is the parents are known druggies, yet vaccinations are why CPS wants to remove them.

I have several good friends who refuse to vaccinate their kids. If CPS goons tried to take those kids away I’d be in the front lines to defend them.
 
SWolf said:
What’s amazing about that case is the parents are known druggies, yet vaccinations are why CPS wants to remove them.

I have several good friends who refuse to vaccinate their kids. If CPS goons tried to take those kids away I’d be in the front lines to defend them.
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yes, lunacy reigns again. I think people can make some of their own decisions. Sometimes that is brought about by schools and employment. (my flu shot example). I hope that people do not make decisions based on fear on either side of the coin but on real facts and proof and studies. What risks there are or can be from vaccinations need to weighed against the diseases they are trying to prevent which are serious infections to begin with. Yes, I think there can be and should be a relook and numbers and when and where etc of vaccinations, ages etc. I think the heavy metals in them have been removed which I think was the issue with autism. One can request non-heavy metal vaccines and I think most Dr. offices use that kind. I know that is what I requested and got for my children. Real facts not fear is what is needed in this discussion in general.
 
ucfengr said:
Part of the problem is that we overvaccinate our kids. According to the CDC, 90% of people acquire full immunity after 1 MMR vaccination, but the CDC schedule calls for 2. Rather than exposing kids to unnecessary medical procedures, we could do a blood test for MMR antibodies to ensure immunity. This would also capture the kids that aren’t immunized by even 2 shots. This also ignores a lot of vaccines that make no sense for kids in the US, like Hep-B and polio.
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Wait, you wouldn’t want your kid poked with a needle the second time to inject a vaccine, but you would want your kid to be poked by a needle and blood drawn? The procedure of being poked is still happening.
 
It’s already been raised here, but what vaccines does Ben Carson mean? There are a lot of different vaccines and they can not necessarily be put in the same box, so to speak.

Numerous Western countries do not mandate vaccinations before entry to school and do these countries have outbreak after outbreak of communicable infections?
 
KendraDZ1902 said:
Wait, you wouldn’t want your kid poked with a needle the second time to inject a vaccine, but you would want your kid to be poked by a needle and blood drawn? The procedure of being poked is still happening.
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Being poked isn’t the concern, injecting a vaccine needlessly, and exposing the child to the risk of an adverse reaction is.
 
_Abyssinia said:
It’s already been raised here, but what vaccines does Ben Carson mean? There are a lot of different vaccines and they can not necessarily be put in the same box, so to speak.

Numerous Western countries do not mandate vaccinations before entry to school and do these countries have outbreak after outbreak of communicable infections?
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Compared to some countries, the US’s 100 cases of measles this year is nothing. In 2013 Germany had 1700, Italy had 2251, Netherlands 2640, UK 1900, and China 27,825.
 
ucfengr said:
Being poked isn’t the concern, injecting a vaccine needlessly, and exposing the child to the risk of an adverse reaction is.
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I read somewhere that reactions are very slim. Like, you are more likely to be struck by lightening. So, I’m not worried about it. I besides if they were going to get a reaction you would think it would happen the first time.🤷
 
SWolf said:
What’s amazing about that case is the parents are known druggies, yet vaccinations are why CPS wants to remove them.

I have several good friends who refuse to vaccinate their kids. If CPS goons tried to take those kids away I’d be in the front lines to defend them.
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Who will defend the kids that get measles because they refuse to vaccinate? The science here is very clear, the vaccinations work. The autism thing was an outright fraud.

Out of curiosity since you know people who don’t vaccinate…What is thier response when they are presented with evidence that not vaccinating children causes outbreaks which lead to some deaths?
 
ucfengr said:
Polio? Polio is transmitted through a fecal-oral route (IOW raw sewage in the water)? For all the talk about iron lungs and leg braces, we could stop polio vaccinations tomorrow with no impact on polio rates in the US because we have good sanitation and no longer dump bedpans and chamber pots in the streets. Even if the risk is low, why take it when the risk of getting the disease is non-existent? Yes, if you’re planning on traveling to Africa or India, it would probably make sense to get vaccinated against polio, but not if you’re a newborn in the US. Most other first world countries have far smaller vaccine schedules than the US, with no impacts to childhood mortality or life expectancy.
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This kind of talk by ucfengr is irresponsible. Check out the CDC website which cites cases of polio worldwide as 483 in 2001: when rumors about the vaccine’s safety came out in 2003, refusal of vaccine by parents in Nigeria led to increase in number of cases & spread of the virus in nearby countries that were previously polio-free. In 2003, there were 784 reported cases, in 2004, 1255 cases.
 
J_Peterson said:
Who will defend the kids that get measles because they refuse to vaccinate? The science here is very clear, the vaccinations work. The autism thing was an outright fraud.

Out of curiosity since you know people who don’t vaccinate…What is thier response when they are presented with evidence that not vaccinating children causes outbreaks which lead to some deaths?
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The Autism thing is a fraud, adverse effects are not.

cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm
DTaP vaccine side-effects
(Diphtheria, Tetanus, and acellular Pertussis):
Severe Problems (Very Rare)
Serious allergic reaction (less than 1 out of a million doses) Several other severe problems have been reported after DTaP vaccine. These include:
Long-term seizures, coma, or lowered consciousness
Permanent brain damage.
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Parents have to do a risk-benefits analysis. Saying, “well you your child was the one in a million that had a severe reaction, sorry about that.” doesn’t cut it. There are risks, even if those risks are rare. Parents have the right to gauge whether the risks outweigh the benefits. Just because I believe the benefits outweigh the risks doesn’t mean another parent has the same mentality.

As I stated earlier, if you want “herd immunization”, make incentives to do so without resorting to force.
 
Interesting article on reason.com (libertarian website). Feel free not to vaccinate your kids but be prepared to homeschool because they won’t be welcome at public school.
Makes sense to me. I don’t have a problem with a religious exemption the the “philosophical” exemption boils down to "I’ve got a right to be an idiot.
 
robwar said:
I do agree with you. Currently in Michigan, there is a family of 4 being threaten with removal because they are refusing to vaccinate their children for measles.
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I think this is the story you’re referring to:

freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/oakland/2015/02/03/measles-vaccine-family-neglect-oakland-county-brian-kenny-daniel-bagdade-attorney-oakland-county/22827221/
Child protective service workers were seeking to terminate the parental rights of Brian and Amy Kenny of Highland Township, who have a long history of drug and alcohol abuse, domestic violence and child neglect, when they learned the four children, ages 10 and under, had not been inoculated against the measles.
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Clarkston attorney H. Elliot Parnes, appointed by the court to represent the three girls and one boy, said he planned to file a motion today asking a family court judge to order that the children be immunized against the virus. The children, temporary wards of the court, are living with grandparents. The motion will be heard before Oakland County Circuit Court judge Lisa Langton on Feb. 11.
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The children weren’t removed because they hadn’t been vaccinated - they were removed for abuse and neglect, and then after that happened, the attorney found that they hadn’t been vaccinated.

I do think this is an interesting case, and one I plan to keep an eye on - as the ruling could have future implications for cases. The children aren’t currently under parental custody, and it is unclear if they will return there or not, but the parents do not want their children to be vaccinated, due to their personal research and beliefs. If the children are permanently removed, then the parents’ opinions wouldn’t matter anymore in terms of if it’s legal to vaccinate the children against their wishes, but this middle ground waiting period that they’re currently in seems to be a little more grey on the issue.
 
ucfengr said:
Being poked isn’t the concern, injecting a vaccine needlessly, and exposing the child to the risk of an adverse reaction is.
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Please don’t let your children have aspirin, tylenol, anti-histamines, anti-biotics, peanut butter, shell fish, nutrasweet. All of these have the potential of an adverse reaction.
 
Well as long as the parent is free to keep their children out of public school; I see no issue here.
 
SWolf said:
As I stated earlier, if you want “herd immunization”, make incentives to do so without resorting to force.
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“incentives” and “force” are just two points along the same continuum. When incentives are strong enough, they become de facto force. How about this incentive: You can have the benefit of moving around and being a part of this society only if you consent. There, that’s not force.
 
sallybutler said:
Please don’t let your children have aspirin, tylenol, anti-histamines, anti-biotics, peanut butter, shell fish, nutrasweet. All of these have the potential of an adverse reaction.
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Apples and oranges. If your child gets sick from aspirin, Tylenol, anti-histamines, anti-biotics, peanut butter, shell fish, or Nutrasweet, it is not going to make all his classmates sick.
 
Lost_Sheep said:
Apples and oranges. If your child gets sick from aspirin, Tylenol, anti-histamines, anti-biotics, peanut butter, shell fish, or Nutrasweet, it is not going to make all his classmates sick.
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UCFENGR was saying that he/she was concerned about adverse affects to the child from the vaccine, not that the child might be affected by the disease or affect other children. If the big concern is what the vaccine might to to the receiver of the vaccine, than other compounds also need to be avoided.
 
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