Vatican Cardinal Burke: ‘We’re well on the way’ to Christian persecution in the U.S

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by John-Henry Westen

VATICAN, November 28, 2011 (LifeSiteNews.com) – One of the highest ranking cardinals in the Vatican has said that the United States is “well on the way” to the persecution of Christians.

Cardinal Raymond Burke, former Archbishop of St. Louis and now the head of the Vatican’s highest court, told Catholic News Agency that he could envision a time when the Catholic Church in the U.S., “even by announcing her own teaching,” is accused of “engaging in illegal activity, for instance, in its teaching on human sexuality.”

Asked if the cardinal could even see American Catholics being arrested for their faith he replied, “I can see it happening, yes.”

lifesitenews.com/news/vatican-cardinal-burke-were-well-on-the-way-to-christian-persecution-in-the/
 
richard_wang said:
One of the highest ranking cardinals in the Vatican
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I am not sure that is correct. Raymond Burke has been a cardinal for one year. He is a cardinal-deacon, which of the three levels of cardinals is the lowest.

As for his remarks, he is famous at CAF for his rhetoric. However, that doesn’t mean his rhetoric is accurate. I think he is seriously overreaching when he envisions the possibility in the the US “even by announcing her own teaching,” [the Church] is accused of “engaging in illegal activity, for instance, in its teaching on human sexuality”

The First Amendment guaranteeing freedom of speech and freedom of religion make that scenario extraordinarily unlikely. There are many court decisions which have already established those rights, even when they offend others.
 
Dale_M said:
The First Amendment guaranteeing freedom of speech and freedom of religion make that scenario extraordinarily unlikely. There are many court decisions which have already established those rights, even when they offend others.
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I have to disagree with you on that. The First Amendment is essentially worthless now, especially when you throw activist liberal judges into the mix. We have public schools with Muslim prayer rooms, but if a child says grace before his meal or wears a T-shirt that mentions Jesus, he gets sent home. Obamacare, with its forced support of abortion and contraception, essentially criminalizes Catholic conscience. Christians in America have a huge target on their backs, but most of them are too blind or indifferent to notice.
 
Gordon_Sims said:
We have public schools with Muslim prayer rooms, but if a child says grace before his meal or wears a T-shirt that mentions Jesus, he gets sent home.
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Could you give me an example of a public school with a Muslim prayer room which has sent home a child for wearing a t-shirt mentioning Jesus?

As for a child saying grace at lunch, that is constitutionally protected.
US Department of Education:
Students may pray when not engaged in school activities or instruction, subject to the same rules designed to prevent material disruption of the educational program that are applied to other privately initiated expressive activities. Among other things, students may read their Bibles or other scriptures, say grace before meals, and pray or study religious materials with fellow students during recess, the lunch hour, or other noninstructional time to the same extent that they may engage in nonreligious activities. While school authorities may impose rules of order and pedagogical restrictions on student activities, they may not discriminate against student prayer or religious speech in applying such rules and restrictions.
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www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/religionandschools/prayer_guidance.html
 
I have heard of students getting in trouble for talking about their Christian beliefs amongst themselves–but that is a violation of their free exercise rights. It’s a result of teachers misunderstanding the laws, and they need to be set right. Teachers need to have the laws made very clear to them–no faculty-led class prayers, and no ban on personal prayers or personal conversation either. There is unlawful silencing of religion happening, but it is largely the result of ignorance as well as overcautious “political correctness”–not of the Supreme Court decisions.
 
Dale_M said:
I am not sure that is correct. Raymond Burke has been a cardinal for one year. He is a cardinal-deacon, which of the three levels of cardinals is the lowest.

As for his remarks, he is famous at CAF for his rhetoric. However, that doesn’t mean his rhetoric is accurate. I think he is seriously overreaching when he envisions the possibility in the the US “even by announcing her own teaching,” [the Church] is accused of “engaging in illegal activity, for instance, in its teaching on human sexuality”

The First Amendment guaranteeing freedom of speech and freedom of religion make that scenario extraordinarily unlikely. There are many court decisions which have already established those rights, even when they offend others.
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Wake up, Dale! It is happening in Canada right now. You place way too much faith in the politically-stacked supreme court. This is the court that 7-2 said that women have the right to kill the unborn in the womb.

The Church is already being forced out of the adoption business, due to its teaching on sexual morality. Just because it is not at the edge right now does not mean that she is not being steadily marginalized.
 
po18guy said:
Wake up, Dale! It is happening in Canada right now. You place way too much faith in the politically-stacked supreme court. This is the court that 7-2 said that women have the right to kill the unborn in the womb.
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The US Supreme Court has made mistakes before (e.g. supporting mandatory sterilization back in 1927), so it certainly is fallible. However, in the case of abortion, I don’t think there was a large amount of prior court rulings to serve as guidance. That isn’t the case with regard to the First Amendment.

I realize that in Canada (and other countries) that freedom of expression sometimes is curtailed too much. However, the US has a different culture and judicial history. Just as we love our guns to the point of seeming obsessed (in the eyes of foreigners), we also are obsessed with free speech… to the point of allowing Nazis to march through a Jewish neighborhood.
po18guy said:
The Church is already being forced out of the adoption business, due to its teaching on sexual morality.
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If the Church wants to take government money to provide adoption services, then it needs to follow government rules with regard to non-discrimination. However, if the Church is not acting as a government agent, then it should be free to provide private adoptions funded by its own network of donors.
 
I am not sure that is correct. Raymond Burke has been a cardinal for one year. He is a cardinal-deacon, which of the three levels of cardinals is the lowest.
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As for his remarks, he is famous at CAF for his rhetoric. However, that doesn’t mean his rhetoric is accurate. I think he is seriously overreaching when he envisions the possibility in the the US “even by announcing her own teaching,” [the Church] is accused of “engaging in illegal activity, for instance, in its teaching on human sexuality”
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Mark 6:4

And Jesus said to them: “A prophet is not without honor, but in his own country, and in his own house, and among his own kindred.”
 
Sadly, the cancer of political correctness is also very active in England. So much so that Catholic adoption agencies are having to close.
On a seasonal note, there will be huge numbers of schools that no longer have the traditional Nativity play, for fear of “offending non Christians” It must be said that none of the Hindus or Muslims I know want this…It’s the atheist PC brigade foisting their hatred for Christianity upon others
 
Dale_M said:
Could you give me an example of a public school with a Muslim prayer room which has sent home a child for wearing a t-shirt mentioning Jesus?
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I should have phrased that better, and instead stated that we have school districts that mandate prayer rooms for Muslims, while others send children home for displaying any hint of a Christian background. I don’t have specific examples of schools with Muslim prayer rooms sending children home; however, anecdotally, I read comments from 2-3 people on a news site after a story came out about one of these school districts who claimed to be parents of children at those districts. They were specifically told that their children were not allowed to pray or display any hints of their religion in order to not offend the children for whom the prayer rooms were built.

As far as saying grace before meals, I have a coworker whose kids got in trouble several times and were threatened with suspension because they insisted on saying a prayer before lunch. I also read about a local case within the last couple years of a group of students who were banned from the school library during lunch hour because they were using it for prayer & Bible study. Regardless of what the DOE may say, that’s not necessarily how things operate.
 
Gordon_Sims said:
As far as saying grace before meals, I have a coworker whose kids got in trouble several times and were threatened with suspension because they insisted on saying a prayer before lunch. I also read about a local case within the last couple years of a group of students who were banned from the school library during lunch hour because they were using it for prayer & Bible study. Regardless of what the DOE may say, that’s not necessarily how things operate.
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Then the school principal, or superintendent of schools or the entire school board need to be brought up to speed.

The students and their families should stand up for their rights. Doing so probably won’t require confrontation, simply education. But it legal action is necessary, there are several non-profit organizations who would enjoy defending the students.
 
Dale_M said:
Then the school principal, or superintendent of schools or the entire school board need to be brought up to speed.

The students and their families should stand up for their rights. Doing so probably won’t require confrontation, simply education. But it legal action is necessary, there are several non-profit organizations who would enjoy defending the students.
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I’ll check with him again to see if they’re still having issues and forward him what you posted from the DOE. I have very little faith in our courts in this regard, though.
 
What is the CArdinal talking about?!

The SCt just upheld everyone’s right to protest outside of funerals carrying signs that say “GOd Hates F**GS!”

If the Sct is ok with this then surely they will be ok with Catholic Teaching which holds that homsexual acts are sins but that God still Loves Homosexuals.

We have nothing to worry about here. Really What is this Cardinal’s problem?
 
When you have an administration which is dictating to Christian institutions that they have to cover contraception/abortificants which goes against religious conscience, that is persecution.
 
Does the Christian Institution have to take Medicare Medicaid ?
 
Dale_M said:
I am not sure that is correct. Raymond Burke has been a cardinal for one year. He is a cardinal-deacon, which of the three levels of cardinals is the lowest. .
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But his position in the Curia is one of the highest, that of Prefect of the Apostolic Signatura.

As such, he is second only to the Pope in the review of administrative decrees by the bishops worldwide and in deciding issues that cross two or more Dicasteries.

His role also entails duties similar to that of the US Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.
 
Brendan said:
But his position in the Curia is one of the highest, that of Prefect of the Apostolic Signatura.

As such, he is second only to the Pope in the review of administrative decrees by the bishops worldwide and in deciding issues that cross two or more Dicasteries.
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Cardinal Buke does occupy an important role within the Vatican. However, his role is limited. He has opinions on many topics yet they are not necessarily the opinions of anyone else in the Vatican offices nor are they necessarily official Church policy. Most of what he deals with as Prefect are technical canonical disputes that need resolution.

Depending on what issues are the most pressing for the Church at any given time, the heads of those Congregations are the “most important” for the Church. So its hard to “rank” the importance of any particular Cardinal since their importance is relative to the issues at hand.
His role also entails duties similar to that of the US Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.
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Close but not exactly. Once again, he mainly deals with technical disputes of canon law. There’s not really any sweeping legislation he strikes down or anything like that. And, of course, the Holy Father remains the only true final word on all interpretation/applications of canon law.
 
While I respect and admire Cardinal Burke, I’m not sure how he’s drawing his line of reasoning on this one.
The KKK is amongst the most reviled and hated groups in the USA and yet has consistently been protected by the courts and the law.
 
Birdpreacher said:
What is the CArdinal talking about?!

The SCt just upheld everyone’s right to protest outside of funerals carrying signs that say “GOd Hates F**GS!”

If the Sct is ok with this then surely they will be ok with Catholic Teaching which holds that homsexual acts are sins but that God still Loves Homosexuals.

We have nothing to worry about here. Really What is this Cardinal’s problem?
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Wake up 2.0! The court upheld the right to hate. The court upheld that which defames Christianity - especially when warped or perverted. God’s truth and the right to love is in the world’s sights. In the last three years the Supreme Court has been stacked with additional far left ideologues. Remember the words of our Lord: If the world hates you, remember that it hated me first" (John 15:18). This was not just an empty phrase.

Pray for the Holy Spirit’s gift of prophecy and you will begin to see how uncomfortable things will soon become.
 
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