Vatican Cardinal Burke: ‘We’re well on the way’ to Christian persecution in the U.S

[Neildown]

Comparing what you just said (true persecution in every case) to America today is an insult to those that suffered in those years you talked about.

Your view of “history” is severely warped if you think there is any correlation between America and the countries you mentioned.

Which one of the listed countries didn’t have an out-of-control government at the time of crisis?

That being said, what do you call our government? Stable? We are in the middle of economic ruin right now, and our government just passed a statement declaring pizza a vegetable…

 

[Dale_M]

How’s that freedom of religion thing working for various Catholic adoptions agencies forced to close their doors?

If a Catholic adoption agency wants to be a “purchase of services” provider for the government, then it needs to follow the guidelines of government. Who takes the king’s coin is the king’s man.

Some people disagree:

Peter Breen, executive director of the Thomas More Society, represents Catholic Charities in the dioceses of Joliet, Peoria and Springfield. “The idea that a religious entity needs to check its religion at the door when it takes state money is a false idea,” Breen says.

npr.org/2011/07/05/137622143/illinois-catholic-agencies-at-odds-over-gay-adoptions

However, I don’t think that argument will hold up in the courts, and is the reason why the Catholic Charities challenge to the new requirement was dropped.

If Catholic adoption agencies want to fund themselves privately, they are free to do so and thus be free of the objectionable requirements. But they need to pay for services on their own dime, and not be leaning on the government.

That Catholic Charities in several diocese have shut down their adoption services rather than rely on private donations is very sad. But they aren’t being forced to make that decision.

 

[po18guy]

If a Catholic adoption agency wants to be a “purchase of services” provider for the government, then it needs to follow the guidelines of government. Who takes the king’s coin is the king’s man.

Do you agree then, that it is government that has changed? You seem to suspect that it will not change much more. If so, on what basis?

 

[Dale_M]

Do you agree then, that it is government that has changed?

I think US culture has changed and the government reflects that.

There was a time in the American South when racial segregation was the norm, and government laws reflected that. Thankfully, that is no longer the case. However, back then, the Catholic Church was comfortable in providing segregated parishes and segregated schools.

I think the Church is better off being a counter-cultural force, pulling people towards God, rather than serving the values of secular culture.

 

[po18guy]

I think the Church is better off being a counter-cultural force, pulling people towards God, rather than serving the values of secular culture.

Not a thng to argue with here. Have you seen the movie “180”? It is very dark in its enlightenment as to our culture. Worth a watch.

 

[meltzerboy]

18th century France. 1917 Russia. 1933 Germany. 1949 China. It couldn’t happen there, either.

I vaguely remember some sort of quote about failing to learn from history.

I agree with you, and that is why we must have separation of Church and State: to ensure that no religion (that is not harmful to the public) is denied practice of their beliefs by the government, be it fascist, communist, or democratic. The alternative is either a complete atheist society or a theocracy ruled by one religious group.

 

[po18guy]

I agree with you, and that is why we must have separation of Church and State: to ensure that no religion (that is not harmful to the public) is denied practice of their beliefs by the government, be it fascist, communist, or democratic. The alternative is either a complete atheist society or a theocracy ruled by one religious group.

Ah, but the atheist mantra “separation of Church and state” appears nowhere in the founding documents of this nation. Back when the US constitution had meaning, there was placed a prohibition against the government establishing a state religion. Government now seeks not so much to ban or destroy religion (as it cannot), but to reduce it to meaninglessness; to control it via the submission of it. Yet, those same founding documents give honor and glory to your G-d and mine. The United States were clearly founded on widely held Christian principles. Those principles have their roots in Judaism. Consider: It was a government that celebrated Christmas which fought to end the holocaust. If Christianity had no moral value, was not a force for good, would this massive sacrifice have made any sense, or have received any support?

Now, the forces of darkness are pushing the L-rd aside, replacing Him with…what? The dictatorship of relativism. And, this new dictatorship, as with the old which opposed Moses in the desert, will ultimately fail, but not without the shedding of blood. As in the first holocaust, the blood is already flowing. The blood of the unwanted, the unneeded, the sub-human.

If it sounds like hyperbole, just remember that the future always resembles the past.

 

[Dale_M]

Not a thng to argue with here. Have you seen the movie 180?

No, I am not real big on videos, especially long ones. And since it was produced by Ray Comfort, who doesn’t even consider Catholics to be Christian, I have even less enthusiasm for that particular video.

However, if you want to highlight the relevant points, I am willing to discuss them.

Consider: It was a government that celebrated Christmas which fought to end the holocaust. If Christianity had no moral value, was not a force for good, would this massive sacrifice have made any sense, or have received any support?

The atheist Soviet Union fought that same fight, and paid a much higher price I don’t think Christianity had much to do with WWII.

 

[BigFellaMick]

foxnews.com/us/2010/07/31/pub-chicago-man-charged-disorderly-conduct-praying-outside-planned-parenthood/

For anyone who doesn’t think this is a very real possibility, here is one tiny example of things that have happened already. Westboro baptist people can spew their hatred at soldiers funerals over their disgust with homosexuals and they are protected by free speech or whatever they hide behind these days. Yet a man praying silently to himself the rosary, not interfering with anyone ends up getting cited. (To my knowledge he won the case and the charges were dropped ) Point being that while it’s not quite to the level of persecution of the holocaust as some want to make it seem, christians (especially Catholics) are facing persecution already by this country. And if you look at america’s history, we’ve been persecuted from day one. For a country thriving on protestant ideals wanting to “get away” from catholic europe and doing everything it could to prevent Catholicism from spreading, we are flourishing quite nicely, all things considered. Just goes to show you can’t underestimate God’s power in this world. Even if we face large and widespread persecution, it only makes us stronger and makes more open themselves to Christ and join His cause.

 

[JimG]

Here’s another report about Cardinal Burke’s comments:
catholicworldreport.com/NewsBriefs/Default.aspx?rssGuid=cardinal-burke-reflects-on-his-first-year-in-the-sacred-college/

 

[Not_Sure_1]

Re: Vatican Cardinal Burke: ‘We’re well on the way’ to Christian persecution in the U.S.
Quote:
Originally Posted by po18guy
18th century France. 1917 Russia. 1933 Germany. 1949 China. It couldn’t happen there, either.

I vaguely remember some sort of quote about failing to learn from history.
I agree with you, and that is why we must have separation of Church and State: to ensure that no religion (that is not harmful to the public) is denied practice of their beliefs by the government, be it fascist, communist, or democratic. The alternative is either a complete atheist society or a theocracy ruled by one religious group.

I reject separation of church and state, how about make Europe a continent where Catholicism is the only official religion, just like in the glorious days of Christendom?

How about an officially Catholic Spain, Portugal, Italy and France, in order to combat all the officially secular states?

Secularism is a disease.

 

[Not_Sure_1]

No, I am not real big on videos, especially long ones. And since it was produced by Ray Comfort, who doesn’t even consider Catholics to be Christian, I have even less enthusiasm for that particular video.

However, if you want to highlight the relevant points, I am willing to discuss them.

The atheist Soviet Union fought that same fight, and paid a much higher price I don’t think Christianity had much to do with WWII.

WWII is very complicated, we allied with a man equally if not more evil than the man we were fighting against. This is why countries like Spain stayed neutral, Franco didn’t want to fight for Hitler, but he didn’t want to fight for Stalin either.

 

[po18guy]

However, if you want to highlight the relevant points, I am willing to discuss them.

Granted that he is a child of heresy, but he interviews the young, who tend to indicate the direction that our nation is taking. They have no compass.

The atheist Soviet Union fought that same fight, and paid a much higher price I don’t think Christianity had much to do with WWII.

Except ending it.

 

[po18guy]

Reeling all of this back in, the Cardinal, even though he is considered a ‘rookie’, was called to the Vatican’s Supreme Court by the Pope. Gotta count for something. If he must be criticized, let it be for daring to give words to that which many of his silent brothers are only thinking.

 

[Nec5]

Comparing what you just said (true persecution in every case) to America today is an insult to those that suffered in those years you talked about.

Your view of “history” is severely warped if you think there is any correlation between America and the countries you mentioned.

Unless you’re one of the countless tens(hundreds?) of millions of babies getting their brains sucked out by a friendly vacuum tube. The only real insult to those persecuted in the past are all the sheep today that don’t want to use those examples to reveal the evil hiding in plain site in modern times.

 

[incense]

However, I don’t think that argument will hold up in the courts, and is the reason why the Catholic Charities challenge to the new requirement was dropped.

You are saying that you know that they dropped the case because they didn’t think that they would win? How do you know that?

 

[incense]

Cardinal Buke does occupy an important role within the Vatican. However, his role is limited. He has opinions on many topics yet they are **not ****necessarily the opinions of anyone else in the Vatican offices **nor are they necessarily official Church policy. Most of what he deals with as Prefect are technical canonical disputes that need resolution. …And, of course, the Holy Father remains the only true final word on all interpretation/applications of canon law.

If you read the next paragraph in the article, the pope agreed with Cardinal Burke.

 

[Kismetji]

by John-Henry Westen

VATICAN, November 28, 2011 (LifeSiteNews.com) – One of the highest ranking cardinals in the Vatican has said that the United States is “well on the way” to the persecution of Christians.

Cardinal Raymond Burke, former Archbishop of St. Louis and now the head of the Vatican’s highest court, told Catholic News Agency that he could envision a time when the Catholic Church in the U.S., “even by announcing her own teaching,” is accused of “engaging in illegal activity, for instance, in its teaching on human sexuality.”

Asked if the cardinal could even see American Catholics being arrested for their faith he replied, “I can see it happening, yes.”

lifesitenews.com/news/vatican-cardinal-burke-were-well-on-the-way-to-christian-persecution-in-the/

Hm. Have to think about this.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

If you read the next paragraph in the article, the pope agreed with Cardinal Burke.

Not even close. The article took a separate address by the Pope and applied it to Cardinal Burke’s comments…

 

[Holly3278]

I totally agree with Cardinal Burke. It seems to me that persecution is not far off here in the United States. In fact, it seems as though persecution of Catholics could easily go worldwide within my life time.