Vatican Cardinal Burke: ‘We’re well on the way’ to Christian persecution in the U.S

[po18guy]

While I respect and admire Cardinal Burke, I’m not sure how he’s drawing his line of reasoning on this one.
The KKK is amongst the most reviled and hated groups in the USA and yet has consistently been protected by the courts and the law.

Persecution of the Church is in prophecy and history. Does anyone read, and actually believe the bible anymore? Does anyone see the creeping marginalization of faith from world society?

No?

We need another voice of one crying out in the wilderness.

 

[Neildown]

History has a tendency to repeat itself, so I don’t think his statement crazy in the least - though I still think it would still take awhile before anything similar to a persecution might hit the U.S.

 

[Semper_Zelare]

While I respect and admire Cardinal Burke, I’m not sure how he’s drawing his line of reasoning on this one.
The KKK is amongst the most reviled and hated groups in the USA and yet has consistently been protected by the courts and the law.

I’m sorry, but you’re saying that the Catholic Church shouldn’t have a care in the world about persecution, because the KKK is legally protected?

The KKK probably has less than 10,000 members. The Catholic Church in the United States has 64 million members at least. Hundreds of Universities, High Schools. Tens of Thousands of Churches. One sixth of the hospitals and health services in the country. And then ALL the charities.

The Catholic Church is not a couple of racist or homophobic rednecks who like to protest and be hateful on the side of the road. That description would apply to both the KKK and Westboro Baptist.

The Catholic Church is a huge force in people’s lives. People go to Church, get married, their kids get baptized then educated, health care is provided, adoption services are offered, poor people are helped, and last rites are given. And, all of these things are done according to the teachings of the Catholic Church. A lot of liberals, secularists, modernists, atheists, etc. Want to see they way the Catholic Church does these things done away with. They are enemies of the Church, and they want to change what the Church does, because it has a BIG impact in people’s lives. Unlike the KKK and Westboro Baptist.

I mean, really people? Seriously? Those groups shouldn’t belong in the same sentence, paragraph, post, or thread for that matter.:doh2:

 

[Tigg]

For those with eyes to see and ears to hear, the Cardinal is not speaking rhetoric. AB Chaput said much the same thing when he warned the CC is losing her religious identify amidst new hostilities from the government.

This country has been asleep for at least a century. What’s it gonna take?

 

[Birdpreacher]

LOL When they protect the rights of the worst (Westboro Baptist) they are in fact protecting the rights of the RCC to preach in the public forum.

Holy Mother Church will be fine, a hatred for religious persecution is the one thing all of these liberal Supreme Court Justices have in common. For them America, at its best is a society composed of multiple thoughts and faiths where not one single faith trumps the rights of others. Does this mean that a secularization of taxpaying institutions is going to happen…probably yes.

Does this means that Cops are going to break down the walls of Cathedrals Waco-Style? Absolutely not. The right of a person to believe whatever he/she wants to believe is something the liberals on the ct constantly strive to defend.

Thats why Westboro can hold their obtrusive protests at funerals, and why the Jehovah’s Witnesses can knock on my door and ask about my personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

 

[Rascalking]

Seriously? Is this Cardinal paying attention? Does he know anything about America? Um…no, we’re not on the way to Christian Persecution, not by a long shot.

 

[irishpatrick]

I am not sure that is correct. Raymond Burke has been a cardinal for one year. He is a cardinal-deacon, which of the three levels of cardinals is the lowest.

As for his remarks, he is famous at CAF for his rhetoric. However, that doesn’t mean his rhetoric is accurate. I think he is seriously overreaching when he envisions the possibility in the the US “even by announcing her own teaching,” [the Church] is accused of “engaging in illegal activity, for instance, in its teaching on human sexuality”

The First Amendment guaranteeing freedom of speech and freedom of religion make that scenario extraordinarily unlikely. There are many court decisions which have already established those rights, even when they offend others.

How’s that freedom of religion thing working for various Catholic adoptions agencies forced to close their doors?

 

[Birdpreacher]

How’s that freedom of religion thing working for various Catholic adoptions agencies forced to close their doors?

Great as long as they dont depend on Tax Payer $$$ and only rely on Charitable donations made by individuals.

 

[po18guy]

First, the Church is marginalized. Excluded from the adoption process. Already happening. Then, the restriction of taxpayer funds, while maintaining or increasing funding to the abortion industry. Already happening. In Germany, crucifixes have been removed from all classrooms (not by a Muslim, but an atheist). In Connecticut, two state legislators, who had additional support, drafted a law placing Catholic Church internal financing under state control. Never mind that it failed - does it concern no one that it happened in the first place? It is unprecedented in our age.

These are but few examples of a trend. Consider: We all follow weather forecasts and sports forecasts that are made by experts or authorities in those fields. Yet, we then turn right around and dismiss and marginalize a spiritual forecast made by an authority in that field? The worst blindness is that which we impose upon ourselves.

Matthew 16:2-3

He said to them in reply, “In the evening you say, ‘Tomorrow will be fair, for the sky is red’; and, in the morning, ‘Today will be stormy, for the sky is red and threatening.’ You know how to judge the appearance of the sky, but you cannot judge the signs of the times."

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

I’m sorry, but you’re saying that the Catholic Church shouldn’t have a care in the world about persecution, because the KKK is legally protected?

In the USA that does give us hope. As I said, the KKK is among the most hated and reviled groups in the USA and yet enjoys legal protection.

The KKK probably has less than 10,000 members. The Catholic Church in the United States has 64 million members at least. Hundreds of Universities, High Schools. Tens of Thousands of Churches. One sixth of the hospitals and health services in the country. And then ALL the charities.

That’s a lot of votes and impact on the economy. All the more reason we shouldn’t overly fear “persecution.”

They are enemies of the Church, and they want to change what the Church does, because it has a BIG impact in people’s lives. Unlike the KKK and Westboro Baptist.

I have a childhood friend who is now a police officer in Georgia. The impact of the KKK, while not huge, is underestimated.

I mean, really people? Seriously? Those groups shouldn’t belong in the same sentence, paragraph, post, or thread for that matter.:doh2:

The issue is religious persecution by the government/society. Thus any group that could reasonably face government/societal backlash are indeed grouped together for such purposes as evaluating the reach of said persecution…

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

How’s that freedom of religion thing working for various Catholic adoptions agencies forced to close their doors?

Limits/regulations on how institutions that serve the public or receive government contracts/money may act have been around in the USA for 200 years.

A huge issue is the case Hosanna-Tabor Evangelical Lutheran Church and School v. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. Even if the Lutheran Church loses the case the court is going to have to explain where the lines are drawn for religious exemptions and why.

 

[po18guy]

LOL When they protect the rights of the worst (Westboro Baptist) they are in fact protecting the rights of the RCC to preach in the public forum.

Holy Mother Church will be fine, a hatred for religious persecution is the one thing all of these liberal Supreme Court Justices have in common. For them America, at its best is a society composed of multiple thoughts and faiths where not one single faith trumps the rights of others. Does this mean that a secularization of taxpaying institutions is going to happen…probably yes.

Does this means that Cops are going to break down the walls of Cathedrals Waco-Style? Absolutely not. The right of a person to believe whatever he/she wants to believe is something the liberals on the ct constantly strive to defend.

Thats why Westboro can hold their obtrusive protests at funerals, and why the Jehovah’s Witnesses can knock on my door and ask about my personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

Are you wiser than the Archbishop or Cardinal? They are far from alone in their views. They are the few who are bold enough to stand and speak the truth to power.

 

[po18guy]

18th century France. 1917 Russia. 1933 Germany. 1949 China. It couldn’t happen there, either.

I vaguely remember some sort of quote about failing to learn from history.

 

[Rascalking]

18th century France. 1917 Russia. 1933 Germany. 1949 China. It couldn’t happen there, either.

I vaguely remember some sort of quote about failing to learn from history.

Comparing what you just said (true persecution in every case) to America today is an insult to those that suffered in those years you talked about.

Your view of “history” is severely warped if you think there is any correlation between America and the countries you mentioned.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Are you wiser than the Archbishop or Cardinal? They are far from alone in their views. They are the few who are bold enough to stand and speak the truth to power.

Archbishop Dolan spoke to this as well.

“The administration’s failure to change course on this matter will… precipitate a national conflict between church and state of enormous proportions and to the detriment of both institutions,” Dolan warned.

huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/22/timothy-dolan-issues-letter-to-obama-about-gay-marriage_n_976788.html

Our Sunday Visitor had an article about it in last week’s issue.

HHS is effectively not allowing conscience objections to Catholic institutions from providing abortion and contraception.

WASHINGTON—The general counsel of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) called on the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) to rescind its mandate forcing private insurance plans to cover contraception—including abortifacients—and sterilization, calling the mandate “unprecedented in federal law and more radical than any state contraceptive mandate.” The comments also criticize the narrow “religious employer” exception to the mandate, explaining that it provides “no protection at all for individuals or insurers with a moral or religious objection to contraceptives or sterilization,” instead covering only “a very small subset of religious employers.”

usccb.org/news/2011/11-168.cfm

Washington, DC, Catholic agencies no long provide family health plans because they would be required to cover SS marriages.

The Washington Post: Employees at Catholic Charities were told Monday that the social services organization is changing its health coverage to avoid offering benefits to same-sex partners of its workers. … Starting Tuesday, Catholic Charities will not offer benefits to spouses of new employees or to spouses of current employees who are not already enrolled in the plan. A letter describing the change in health benefits was e-mailed to employees Monday, two days before same-sex marriage will become legal in the District."

news-medical.net/news/20100302/Catholic-Charities-in-Washington-DC-limits-spouses-health-insurance.aspx

Cardinal Burke is not alone in his concerns.

 

[Mungling]

I suspect history will prove Cardinal Burke at least partially. I can’t speak for the situation in the U.S., as I myself am Canadian, but I do not see Catholics being arrested for public protest. What I can see is a situation where the Catholics become more and more restricted when and where they can practice their faith. They will never be told that they cannot pray (as an example) but instead will be told they can pray and certain times.

The end result will be the progressive marginalization of Catholics and Christians and general. Those who are religious will be thought of as “weird”, “crazy” or backwards. This, at least, is already happening in many social circles, but when Catholics become even more restricted than they already are such the situation will only become exacerbated.

It doesn’t help that what is already a fairly counter-cultural religion will likely be even more so in the decades to come. The Church’s stance on homosexuality, abortion, euthanasia among other issues will certainly win it no friends (except for the only one that matters of course). I fear what we’ll see is less the true Church in China and more a situation where the Catholic Church becomes regarded in much of the same light as the KKK or Westboro.

That is, I suspect, the face persecution will take in the US.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

There are parts of Genesis that you should not read out loud in public.

 

[po18guy]

Comparing what you just said (true persecution in every case) to America today is an insult to those that suffered in those years you talked about.

Your view of “history” is severely warped if you think there is any correlation between America and the countries you mentioned.

Be patient. It is not here yet. It is coming. Do any Catholics believe in prophecy any more?

 

[po18guy]

Comparing what you just said (true persecution in every case) to America today is an insult to those that suffered in those years you talked about.

Your view of “history” is severely warped if you think there is any correlation between America and the countries you mentioned.

Be patient. It is not here yet. It is coming. Do you honestly think that America is immune from human nature? Immune from prophecy?

 

[po18guy]

I suspect history will prove Cardinal Burke at least partially. I can’t speak for the situation in the U.S., as I myself am Canadian, but I do not see Catholics being arrested for public protest. What I can see is a situation where the Catholics become more and more restricted when and where they can practice their faith. They will never be told that they cannot pray (as an example) but instead will be told they can pray and certain times.

The end result will be the progressive marginalization of Catholics and Christians and general. Those who are religious will be thought of as “weird”, “crazy” or backwards. This, at least, is already happening in many social circles, but when Catholics become even more restricted than they already are such the situation will only become exacerbated.

It doesn’t help that what is already a fairly counter-cultural religion will likely be even more so in the decades to come. The Church’s stance on homosexuality, abortion, euthanasia among other issues will certainly win it no friends (except for the only one that matters of course). I fear what we’ll see is less the true Church in China and more a situation where the Catholic Church becomes regarded in much of the same light as the KKK or Westboro.

That is, I suspect, the face persecution will take in the US.

How many have already spent time in jail for protesting abortion? Their confinement sets the precedent that it is OK to arrest those who protest on moral grounds. Same as it was in the civil rights era.

As to those who seem to blindly trust the secular courts, the law is whatever a given judge, on a given day, says it is.