Vatican demands reform of American nuns' leadership group [CWN]

[fms]

About time!

 

[_Abyssinia]

Disturbing:

As the Catholic Church takes action to counter the left-wing drift of American nuns, Breitbart.com has learned that hundreds of nuns are involved in the left’s campaign to recall Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker (R)–in favor of pro-choice Democratic challengers.

breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/04/19/Left-Wing-Nuns-Signed-Circulated-Petitions-for-Walker-Recall

 

[YoungTradCath]

Disturbing:

breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/04/19/Left-Wing-Nuns-Signed-Circulated-Petitions-for-Walker-Recall

I don’t mean to be sarcastic, but is that surprising?

 

[Anna_Scott]

Yep. I saw that there were two decent threads going on the same thing and that this one had beat mine by a couple of hours in getting started so I figured we might as well merge them.

I concur with many of the comments made in this thread as well. As I noted above, I am actually more happy to see this than I was to see a potential SSPX return. So many of the faithful have been scandalized throughout the last few decades due to these women who flat out lost their way. Someone in this thread said something about thousands of people. I would guess we are talking hundreds of thousands if not in the millions of people who have had their faith damaged in some way by these women.

Its very sad when you consider the many wonderful nuns and sisters who have kept the faith. They often get painted with the same brush.

In case anyone is not aware, there is another organization of superiors of women religious in America, the Council of Major Superiors of Women Religious (CMSWR).

Among their stated goals:

• to establish collaboration among major superiors who desire it,
• to serve as a channel of communication among major superiors,
• to provide a forum for participation, dialogue, and education on the patrimony of the Church’s teaching on religious life,
• to promote unity among major superiors, thus testifying to their union with the Magisterium and their love for Christ’s Vicar on earth, and,
• to coordinate active cooperation with the USCCB.

With everything that has gone on with the LCWR and their affiliates, it is nice to remember that there is an organization of women religious out there dedicated to being faithful to the Magesterium and the Holy Father.

catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=35848

This article, which I posted before the thread merger does a nice job of discussing the current situation between the CDF and the LCWR.
regnumnovum.com/2012/04/18/lets-be-sober-about-the-lcwr-assessment/

Peace,

jwinch2,
I appreciate your merging the threads; and for the links.

Anna

 

[jwinch2]

jwinch2,
I appreciate your merging the threads; and for the links.

Anna

No problem Anna.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

I think you’re absolutely right on all counts. The Lord never said the last days would be easy for the church.

I am wondering whether this particular religious organization will accept Vatican authority over it or whether they will leave the RCC. Also, I wonder if they refuse to submit, whether it will result in a mass excommunication of all 57,000 members? I’m not sure how that works in the RCC. I am suspecting many of its members will bolt to liberal mainline Protestant churches, though I am sure some will submit to the clergy.

THis organization can’t break with Rome in the same way some other groups did. The organization itself is an umbrella group of individual orders. So it is the groups under it that would or wouldn’t break. And then many of those orders are part of larger religious families (ie, Dominicans, Franciscans, etc.)

So you might have The Sisters of Our Lady of the Wind decide that the want to leave the Catholic church. The are also breaking with the umbrella organization. Within that order which is (let’s say) Franciscan, some sisters might not want to leave. They could then petition to join The Sisters of Our Lady of the Sea, also Franciscans, who are remaining Catholic.

The individual SOLOW sisters might remian living together in community, but I don’t know if they could become Episcipalians (sp?) as a community. There is precidenct for Anglican orders (going back to the Friars of the Atonement) becoming Catholic, but I don’t think any have gone the other way en masse.

 

[catharina]

Here’s a copy of the story. I believe this is a pretty good account. William Coulson was one of Carl Rogers’ disciples and co-workers and he is the one who was in charge of the project with the IHM sisters, I believe.

ewtn.com/library/PRIESTS/COULSON.TXT

He also worked with about 2 dozen other congregations.

Thank you so much for giving this link.
I just read the article. Horribly sad.

 

[Thomas_Francis]

A lot of this may end up in new, faithful communities forming. Back when the IHM’s in California started going off the deep end some of them escaped and moved to the Midwest.

From a document on the founders -

During the chaos and havoc of the late 60’s and early 70’s, they suffered to see the gradual destruction of their beloved Institute due to secularization, the misinterpretation of the Second Vatican Council’s documents, the misdirected and the misdirecting leadership and the misuse and abuse of psychiatry. They saw a huge cancer growing and so did the Holy See. Under the guidance of Rome and in hopes to protect the charism and works of the Community, the Institute was divided between those who opted out of canonical status under the leadership of Sister Anita Caspry and those who, under the leadership of Sister Eileen, appointed by Rome, wished to remain faithful to the Church, their vows, and their Institute. The spit was roughly 90 / 10.

This painful time was tumultuous. The small group of Sisters was strong and determined. Within a short time after Sister Eileen’s term as Superior, it became increasingly clear that though the Sisters all wanted to remain faithful to the ideals, charism, and the works of the Community they were not united in their thoughts on how to do this, or, even, in their understanding of how to live the essential elements of Religious life according to their unique charism.

Again consulting the Holy See, for many months, Mother Joanne, Sister Eileen and Sister Giovanni were directed to find another diocese that would welcome them and their works. They began this search, hoping that someday this small beginning would grow into a province of their California Institute.

The Sisters were attracted to Wichita because of its fidelity and orthodoxy. Bishop Maloney was attracted to the Sisters’ mission of contemplation of the Word and the spread of the Gospel through works of education. It was a good fit. He invited them and they arrived on June 22, 1976 with only a few possessions and a few dollars to begin their new life.

Their website.

 

[jwinch2]

A lot of this may end up in new, faithful communities forming. Back when the IHM’s in California started going off the deep end some of them escaped and moved to the Midwest.

From a document on the founders -

Their website.

Thanks for that. I am hopeful that this will lead to more vocations to faithful communities as well. There are plenty of them out there, and by all accounts they are the ones that are growing. I hope that continues and escalates.

Peace,

 

[manualman]

“And it’s not about the giving up but it’s about the fidelity to the call to be faithful to the Gospel and have that so unseen and to have this edict never mention the Gospel, never mention the responsibility to be God’s arms and hands with people who are poor and suffering, the people at the fringes, people who suffer injustice, to have that not at all seen is extremely painful.”

It really is painful. Much as she insists that the old Roman men are bad guys who refuse to appreciate her and her sisters, she is committing the very wrong she bewails Rome of committing. She utterly refuses to consider their point and dodges it instead by changing the subject from the errors being fostered to the value of the people spreading the errors.

Implicit in her statement appears to be a refusal to accept the fact that one cannot be God’s arms and hands if one is using one’s tongue to spread falsehood about who God IS and what His character is. This is the kind of thinking that results in people “compassionately” helping women go through the abortion process. Compassion isn’t about being nice, it’s about doing GOOD for those in need. You can’t do that if you refuse to discern good from evil, even if you are utterly devoted to doing really nice things for people around you. The gospel is about much more than meeting material needs of the poor and weak. It is about proclaiming hope for ALL of us poor and weak sinners. The hope that we can be more than the fallen men we are by the Grace of God.

 

[Tigg]

There are interesting comments re “Options facing LCWR” at this link for National Catholic Reporter: ncronline.org/news/women-religious/options-facing-lcwr-stark-canon-lawyers-say

In its document explaining the move, the Vatican congregation said Sartain was to have authority over the LCWR in five areas, including:

Reviewing LCWR’s affiliations with other organizations, citing specifically NETWORK and the Resource Center for Religious Institutes.

Despite all the rhetoric in their interpretation of following the gospel call, it’s about time that their ***political ***affiliations with the progressive left be curtailed. NETWORK is the most notorious voice of the radicals (and subsequently the Democrat Party) and has severely distorted authentic social justice teaching.

 

[Tigg]

I am wondering whether this particular religious organization will accept Vatican authority over it or whether they will leave the RCC. Also, I wonder if they refuse to submit, whether it will result in a mass excommunication of all 57,000 members? I’m not sure how that works in the RCC. I am suspecting many of its members will bolt to liberal mainline Protestant churches, though I am sure some will submit to the clergy.

I think they’re in for the long haul. By their own admission, many have said they only stay in the Church to affect the change they want.

 

[Tigg]

I heard on NPR this afternoon an interview with Sister Simone Campbell, SSS, the Executive Director of NETWORK concerning the Vaticans move. This is a report from her statement. It is copied directly from the NPR Website.
by Eyder Peralta

“Quite frankly, it’s very visceral. It’s like a sock in the stomach.”

One of the more shocking things that was onitted from this report was that Sister said that The men just don’t get it. They never did. Remember the womane went to the tomb and told the men. They didn’t get it. The women did. The women still do. The men don’t and we willl have to show them.
www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/

Cutting right to the chase here…this is what sticks in the craw for them…always has been.

 

[Tigg]

Someone in this thread said something about thousands of people. I would guess we are talking hundreds of thousands if not in the millions of people who have had their faith damaged in some way by these women.

That would have been me, but hey, what’s in a number? Your guess may be closer to reality - truth be told, we’ll never know the inestimable harm that has been allowed to continue for decades.

Come Holy Spirit, and renew the face of the earth!

 

[fix]

I heard on NPR this afternoon an interview with Sister Simone Campbell, SSS, the Executive Director of NETWORK concerning the Vaticans move. This is a report from her statement. It is copied directly from the NPR Website.

by Eyder Peralta

“Quite frankly, it’s very visceral. It’s like a sock in the stomach.”

That’s what Sister Simone Campbell, the executive director of Network, a Catholic social justice lobby, said when NPR’s Melissa Block asked her what her reaction was to a Vatican reprimand issued yesterday.

As we reported, the Vatican is cracking down on the Leadership Conference of Women Religious, which represents most nuns in the United States, for straying from church doctrine. In an eight-page report, the Vatican called out Campbell’s group by name hinting that its support of the Obama administration’s healthcare overhaul ran afoul the church’s preference.
.
“The idea that Women Religious in the United States is not being faithful to the Gospel is just shocking,” Campbell told Melissa. "The fact is that our lives are committed through these vows to living the gospel and while we have amazing richness in the spiritual life, we give up a lot to do this.

“And it’s not about the giving up but it’s about the fidelity to the call to be faithful to the Gospel and have that so unseen and to have this edict never mention the Gospel, never mention the responsibility to be God’s arms and hands with people who are poor and suffering, the people at the fringes, people who suffer injustice, to have that not at all seen is extremely painful.”

Campbell added that she wished she knew “what was in [the Vatican’s] mind.” But she surmised that what was happening is that the “leadership doesn’t know how to deal with strong women and so their way is to try and shape us into whatever they think we should be.”

Campbell said it was a “struggle of culture.” And that it could also be that the Vatican is used to a monarchy and nuns in the United States are living in a democracy.

“When you don’t work everyday with people who live at the margins of our society, it’s so much easier to make easy statements about who’s right and who’s wrong,” Campbell said. “Life is way more complicated in our society and it’s probably way easier to be 8,000 miles away in Rome.”

Still, Campbell said, she was hopeful that the Vatican and the American nuns could come to an agreement.

“This won’t tear us apart,” she said. "It makes us mad; it makes us upset. It may makes us wonder about where on God’s green earth all this is going and why in God’s green earth might this be necessary but we’re faithful

One of the more shocking things that was onitted from this report was that Sister said that The men just don’t get it. They never did. Remember the womane went to the tomb and told the men. They didn’t get it. The women did. The women still do. The men don’t and we willl have to show them.

www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/

You can listen to the entire thing at the link I posted.

Fascinating stuff.

Just reverse it.

If that Vatican ever said anything like what she is saying can you imagine the outrage?

Basically, men in Rome bad, dissenting liberal women good. Got it.

 

[jwinch2]

That would have been me, but hey, what’s in a number? Your guess may be closer to reality - truth be told, we’ll never know the inestimable harm that has been allowed to continue for decades.

Come Holy Spirit, and renew the face of the earth!

Agreed, the numbers directly affected are one thing. However, when you consider the secondary and tertiary levels things start getting very scary…

 

[Anna_Scott]

It really is painful. Much as she insists that the old Roman men are bad guys who refuse to appreciate her and her sisters, she is committing the very wrong she bewails Rome of committing. She utterly refuses to consider their point and dodges it instead by changing the subject from the errors being fostered to the value of the people spreading the errors.

Implicit in her statement appears to be a refusal to accept the fact that one cannot be God’s arms and hands if one is using one’s tongue to spread falsehood about who God IS and what His character is. This is the kind of thinking that results in people “compassionately” helping women go through the abortion process. Compassion isn’t about being nice, it’s about doing GOOD for those in need. You can’t do that if you refuse to discern good from evil, even if you are utterly devoted to doing really nice things for people around you. The gospel is about much more than meeting material needs of the poor and weak. It is about proclaiming hope for ALL of us poor and weak sinners. The hope that we can be more than the fallen men we are by the Grace of God.

manualman,

This is very important point and one that we, in The Episcopal Church, are facing as well. The liberals’ agenda often uses social justice in a skewed way. Those of us who disagree are accused of discrimination or even bigotry. We need to help those in need; but the Gospel must always be truthfully and faithfully proclaimed.

Anna

 

[zab]

Thanks for that. I am hopeful that this will lead to more vocations to faithful communities as well. There are plenty of them out there, and by all accounts they are the ones that are growing. I hope that continues and escalates.

Peace,

I just want to say that there were many Sisters in the older communities that were distraught over what what happening in their communities. I have an old VCR of Dr. James Hitchcock interviewing Sr. Denise Donnelly, Sr of St. Joseph of Nazareth Michigan who tells of the horrible things that happened to her for wanting to keep wearing her habit and keep to the traditions of the founders of the order. Sister took out an ad in the newspaper seeking to form an organization of sisters who were faithful to the magisterium. She received letters from 45 states from sisters expressing the same concerns. The new president of her order was furious with Sr. Denise and she goes on to tell what happened to her. It is a very interesting account. I haven’t looked hard enough but so far I have not been able to find anything on the internet,but I will keep looking.

 

[Captain_America]

I just don’t “get” it.

If you’re Catholic, you should love the church and her teachings (having read them and understood them).

Why the division?

Who or what is causing this “male” vs. “female” division? This is pointless and unreasonable.

 

[triumphguy]

The guy that started the rot admits how wrong he was:

youtube.com/watch?v=90ZfGBHkA_0&feature=player_embedded
patheos.com/blogs/kathyschiffer/2012/04/william-coulson-and-the-lcwr-we-overcame-their-traditions-and-their-faith/#comment-1840

He’s the reason we were doing the enneagram and Meyers Briggs when I was in novitiate, instead of learning the history and spirituality of the order. My inner child - the inner child of a 24 year old, was as important as the 800 years of tradition of the Order!

During my time with this order 50% of the priests and brothers left to live with or marry someone.