Vatican paper comes in praise of altar girls [John Allen]

[Tigg]

Here is what cardinal Arinze has to say about this.

i hope he will be our next pope.

youtube.com/watch?v=KWByiwHE4MY

The hoped-for destruction of Tradition by the church progressives is what we’re up against.

 

[irishpatrick]

The hoped-for destruction of Tradition by the church progressives is what we’re up against.

The reversal of what has already been harmed is our real task. Not going to be easy in a world that gives secularism all credit and religion is seen as evil by many. Just mentioning the possibility of reversing of the female altar decision will infuriate many. There are a lot of women and moms that see female altar servers as THEIR victory against the big-bad-evil male world.

 

[rapunzel77]

I am a woman and if I ever have a daughter there is NO way I would allow her to go anywhere near the altar. That is not her place. I am 100% against girl altar servers. In fact, I am also against any women in the sanctuary, that includes reading the OT reading, the responsory, or the epistle. I think it was a terrible mistake giving the feminists one inch in allowing girl altar servers. I am tired of them bullying the bishops and our Holy Father on the issue of “women’s” ordination, etc.

I am in completely agreement with irishpatrick. I only hope that our Holy Father will be bold enough to put an end to this appalling practice. The stakes are too high. We need priests and serving at the altar is a good way to encourage them. Why break something that has worked for so long??? This should never have changed. Now we have more girl altar servers than boys. This is sad.

 

[jenkiedad]

I am a woman and if I ever have a daughter there is NO way I would allow her to go anywhere near the altar. That is not her place. I am 100% against girl altar servers. In fact, I am also against any women in the sanctuary, that includes reading the OT reading, the responsory, or the epistle.

Very interesting comment. Since communion is provided near the altar sanctuary, does that mean a special place should be provided for women at the rear of the Church to receive the Eurcharist?

In my Church, lay people (often a married couple) approach the altar and present the “gifts” to the priest during the Offertory. Based on your comments, does that mean this should also be a male only bastion?

During one service, our priest commented that women provide more than 75% of the “heavy lifting” for the Parish; i.e., the tasks necessary to keep the Parish running. I would be interested in which ministries it would be OK for women to participate. Or does the presence of women performing various ministries in the Parish deter men from entering the priesthood?

 

[irishpatrick]

Very interesting comment. Since communion is provided near the altar sanctuary, does that mean a special place should be provided for women at the rear of the Church to receive the Eurcharist?

In my Church, lay people (often a married couple) approach the altar and present the “gifts” to the priest during the Offertory. Based on your comments, does that mean this should also be a male only bastion?

During one service, our priest commented that women provide more than 75% of the “heavy lifting” for the Parish; i.e., the tasks necessary to keep the Parish running. I would be interested in which ministries it would be OK for women to participate. Or does the presence of women performing various ministries in the Parish deter men from entering the priesthood?

Hmm 75% of the heavy lifting and you probably wonder why we have a Priest shortage.

I would personally guess that 90% of all Catholic formation positions and adminstration postions are held by women (DRE’s, professors, High School teachers, college teachers, elementary level teachers, catechists, principals, administrators, on-and-on…they are nearly all female domains).

I also believe you know full well what she was talking about: the traditional roles in serving “on” the altar was historically given only to males. She did not saying about approaching the altar for communion (of course you know that).

 

[Feanor2]

Hmm 75% of the heavy lifting and you probably wonder why we have a Priest shortage.

I would personally guess that 90% of all Catholic formation positions and adminstration postions are held by women (DRE’s, professors, High School teachers, college teachers, elementary level teachers, catechists, principals, administrators, on-and-on…they are nearly all female domains).

I also believe you know full well what she was talking about: the traditional roles in serving “on” the altar was historically given only to males. She did not saying about approaching the altar for communion (of course you know that).

I know it’s OT but what do you think of female lectors or cantors?

 

[pnewton]

I am in completely agreement with irishpatrick. I only hope that our Holy Father will be bold enough to put an end to this appalling practice.

Fr. Arinze does not like the practice, but even he had the grace to make it clear that it was his opinion he was giving and acknowledge the possibility that some may see it practical in some applications. All who question the prudence of any Church practice would do well to immulate his humility and gentleness in this matter.

 

[DWC_RC]

I am also against female alter servers.

 

[DWC_RC]

I know it’s OT but what do you think of female lectors or cantors?

Cantors are fine, but I am also against female lectors.

 

[jenkiedad]

She did not saying about approaching the altar for communion (of course you know that).

Well, yes, I presumed as much, but didn’t Rapunzel77 say: "… there is NO way I would allow her to go anywhere near the altar. " The term “near” to me means going to Communion, presenting gifts, etc. All of these are actions which would place one “near” to the altar.

I was taking her literally. Perhaps Rapunzel77 does think this way. Or maybe she doesn’t. I’ll await her comments.

But back to the subject at hand. You state that there is a shortage of priests. However, do you believe that this shortage is spread equally across the USA? Or is the shortage more severe in certain areas? I would really like to see that demographic before I could ever be made to believe that allowing girl altar servers is contributing to a shortage of priests.

My own belief is that the shortage is more acute in areas of the country more prone to secularism.

 

[curlycool89]

My own belief is that the shortage is more acute in areas of the country more prone to secularism.

People like the blame game better. It’s much easier to try and pin something complex like vocation shortages on one concrete and simple idea. The truth I would guess is much more complex and based on several factors , and I would bet that at least some of these factors proved to be synergistic in nature.

 

[CWN_News]

In an article in the August 7 edition of L’Osservatore Romano, Lucetta Scaraffia defended the 1994 Vatican decision to permit female altar servers. Describing service at the altar as an …

More…

 

[jenkiedad]

People like the blame game better. It’s much easier to try and pin something complex like vocation shortages on one concrete and simple idea. The truth I would guess is much more complex and based on several factors , and I would bet that at least some of these factors proved to be synergistic in nature.

Agreed, however, I would define “secularism” to include everything you list. No where in your list of “reasons why” (there is a shortage of priests) do you mention the allowing of girls to be altar servers as one of the contributing factors. (For the benefit of Irishpatrick), what do you think of that rationale?

 

[irishpatrick]

I know it’s OT but what do you think of female lectors or cantors?

I have no issue with female lectors or cantors because they are not serving at the altar.

 

[irishpatrick]

My own belief is that the shortage is more acute in areas of the country more prone to secularism.

I agree, secularism and many other things contribute to the shortage of Priests. I have said the same thing all along, I am not trying to say that reversing the female altar decision will completely solve the problem…it won’t. However, if reversing that decision helps, even a little, than it is worth taking that action. The point is, if we never start making changes, than things never change (sort of obvious right).

I can’t stop thinking about the fact that 85% of all Priests were altar servers and that during the Vatican celebration 60% of the altar servers were females. I cannot see why every Catholic does not recognize those numbers as being proof of an authentic problem in the Church regarding vocations to the Priesthood.

If we take more young men out, and put more young women in, than the obvious result will be less Priests and more women thinking they are bing treated unfairly. As I said before, allowing females to be altar servers is actually not fair to females because they cannot ever be Priests.

 

[irishpatrick]

People like the blame game better. It’s much easier to try and pin something complex like vocation shortages on one concrete and simple idea. The truth I would guess is much more complex and based on several factors , and I would bet that at least some of these factors proved to be synergistic in nature.

As I have said several times, there are many reasons for the lack of vocations to the Priesthood. I am convinced female altars represents a strong reason.

 

[LoyalViews]

But, that is the opinion of thw writer herself, not of that of the newspaper.

 

[benedictgal]

But, that is the opinion of thw writer herself, not of that of the newspaper.

That is true. Evidently, Fr. Z is on the same wavelength when he gave his take (in the red highlights) to what the author wrote:

“Being an altar server was always understood as a service but, at the same time, as a privilege, to which no person has any right] because it leads one into the heart of the liturgical celebration, in the space of the altar, to direct contact with the Eucharist. Which leads us to the question of why the priest’s hands are anointed, and the reason for a sanctuary in a church which is already a sacred space, and why only males are ordained and why the Lord was male.] The exclusion of girls from all this, for the sole reason of belonging to the female sex, * don’t think this is a fair way to frame it. There are other factors involved*.] has always weighed heavily and signified a profound inequality within Catholic education, education? It is possible that the Italian “educazione” is to be taken here as more than what is supposed to happen in a school room. “Educazione” has to do with the larger concept of upbringing.] which fortunately has been cancelled “cancellata", maybe the impact of this is "corrected… eradicated”] by now for several decades. Even if perhaps many pastors have been resigned to altar girls only in the absence of available boys, for young women overcoming this barrier was very important, **For whom?] **and in fact that’s how it’s been understood: the presence of a female majority at the tenth gathering of ‘ministrants’ which recently took place in the presence of the pope demonstrates it.” I don’t know what it demonstrates. It might demonstrate that the boys were playing soccer or were hiking.]

And we now careen into the thought of a feminist…] “For girls, entering into the space of the altar has meant the end of any attribution of impurity to their sex, Does it? I didn’t think this was really an issue. But since L’Osservatore Romano brings it up, perhaps we ought to reexamine why God Himself gave divine positive laws in the Old Testament concerning these matters. We live under the NEW covenant, of course. But obviously God thought that the differences of sex meant something.] it’s meant the possibility of living this formative experience of extraordinary importance in religious education, See what I mean about “educazione”? If this is merely “education” in the sense of learning, then Mass is being reduced to a “learning experience”. But Mass is not a didactic moment, as if it were a tool of social formation. I think to save this thought, that “educazione” has to be something like “upbringing”. Even then, there are questions raised.] and it’s meant a different kind of attention to the liturgy as well as coming closer to the faith by drawing near to its very heart.” * hope the writer isn’t saying that in order to “draw near to [the liturgy’s] very heart” you have to be – at least – an altar server.]*

You can read his whole take in its entirety here:
wdtprs.com/blog/page/2/

It is also important to note that in another article wriiten by Ms. Scaraffia, the Vatican spokesman, Fr. Lombardi was quick to point out that this controversial piece on brain death and organ transplants, "“is not an act of the Church’s magisterium, nor a document of a pontifical organism,” and that the reflections expressed in it “are to be attributed to the author of the text, and are not binding for the Holy See.” I would suspect, and again, this is speculation because the Holy See has not commented on the current article in question, that the same would hold true for this piece, as well.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I am a woman and if I ever have a daughter there is NO way I would allow her to go anywhere near the altar. That is not her place. I am 100% against girl altar servers. In fact, I am also against any women in the sanctuary, that includes reading the OT reading, the responsory, or the epistle. I think it was a terrible mistake giving the feminists one inch in allowing girl altar servers. I am tired of them bullying the bishops and our Holy Father on the issue of “women’s” ordination, etc.

I am in completely agreement with irishpatrick. I only hope that our Holy Father will be bold enough to put an end to this appalling practice. The stakes are too high. We need priests and serving at the altar is a good way to encourage them. Why break something that has worked for so long??? This should never have changed. Now we have more girl altar servers than boys. This is sad.

you are one of the few who are more concerned with God’s teachings than what you can get from God. bless be God.
i totally agree with you. the Sanctuary is no place for women. as we can see women are taking over the Sanctuary more and more. now they are being tought to go to the Taberncle also. slowly they are fullfilling the agenda of the feminists. you must be totally blind not to see what is really going on in teh Church.

the liberals are slowlly gaining ground in teh Church and many Catholics have lost their discernment and becoming more and more acceptive to these horrors in the Church. it was never ok in the past and it is not ok today. JPII was not very strong and the liberals new that, so many things were introduced in the Church which is hard to get rid now. the holy father wants to end all this, but i know that the people in teh Vatican is not letting him. but Jesus still in charge. changes will come. Amen.

 

[rapunzel77]

Well, yes, I presumed as much, but didn’t Rapunzel77 say: "… there is NO way I would allow her to go anywhere near the altar. " The term “near” to me means going to Communion, presenting gifts, etc. All of these are actions which would place one “near” to the altar.

Irishpatrick was right. I wasn’t meaning Communion. This is why there are altar rails or if there isn’t, the altar is raised by one or two steps. Usually Communion is distributed below the altar.

I was taking her literally. Perhaps Rapunzel77 does think this way. Or maybe she doesn’t. I’ll await her comments.

I don’t believe it is a woman’s place to be serving at the altar. That also includes being a lector which was historically a minor clerical state. Granted, minor orders are gone but perhaps we need to get it back. I think that many people forget that the sanctuary is a sacred place for sacrifice. It has been treated very casually. I also have a problem to a degree with female sacristans since they come in and out of the sanctuary. In the older rubrics, all the sacred vessels were to be handled with gloves if a layman was taking care of them. The issue is restoring the sacred and encouraging young boys to become priests. The Church has become sooooo feminized and casual that there is hardly ANY sense of the sacred anymore .