Video: St. Francis Xavier Rededication Mass

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Truism said:
Special Note to Joly - I don’t know how old you are, but I think you might like to watch Mother Angelica on EWTN. She will help you to realize the truth. Also, I and others on this site would no doubt like to discuss some of your confusion and help you to understand our religion.
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I’m not young, but I’m not old either. I have two of Mother Angelica’s books, I actually have alot of books. Render unto ceasar by Archbishop Chaput is a favorite of mine. That is what is confusing to me. To read one Bishops words who I admire, and then another who I also admire, that seem so different. I do understand that they have individual personalitys. But I thought that all Bishops were on the same page as far as shepherding goes. How do I explain a point to my mother about what the church teaches on faith and morals, when she can say “what about St. Francis of Xavier”. I also feel a sense of loyalty to the hierarchy of the Church. So I guess my whole confusion is with the lack of unity. I know my faith pretty well, but the more I learn the more I realize I don’t know. So I pray for wisdom and unity within my church and family. But continue to have this kind of generic relashionship with my Mom and brother. Makes me sad.
 
This only adds to more confusion in the Church:mad:
how am I suppose to teach younger people especially my young sister, that although society accepts and sees homosexuality as normal and even encouraged, it is still a sin amongst the eyes of God. Yet here we have a Bishop! of one of the largest diocesis in the country that appears to be condoning these abuses at a Church. When will authentic Catholic take control of the Church again, and teach dogmatic truths and Traditional truth instead of preaching gay rights and social justice?
 
wisdomseeker said:
ye. this Church truly reminds us of the Church of the New Testament. doesnt it?

i wonder what St Paul is saying about this Church. or better yet, how about the prophecies to the Churches in Revelation?

this truly reminds me of the Prophecy of: when you see abomination in the Holy Place.
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I wonder what St. Ignatious of Loyola would say if he saw how his once great society has been used to promote the gay agenda? BTW good post you have put on here 👍

Our Holy Father recently called out all the lay faithful to get invoved not just in politics, but everywhere in their daily life, notice he said lay faithful. Vatican 2 allowed the laity to be able to do more in the Church, but it seems that the wolves are the only one taking advantage of this, it truly is time for us to start spreading the truth and with no apology. Our Bishops are not doing this, if they were, than they would have already excommunicated these so-called catholic politicians and be on the media promoting Truth and not gay and liberal agendas. Just like the monks preserved the Truths & Traditions of the Church during the “dark ages” so must we the faithful laity along with the faithful Magisterium preserve the Truths of the Catholic Church.
 
Interesting discussion. The statement I find most thought provoking is “Catholics cannot pick and choose what they believe in when it comes to the core tenets of our faith.”

I agree, but this should not be interpreted to mean that Catholics cannot, indeed must not, stop seek the truth of God. No serious Christian scholar, Catholic or other, would say that we have a perfect understanding of the scriptures. And the interpretation of ancient texts, translated and rewritten over the centuries, is a continuing endeavor.

While it is true that on very few occasions (about 6 or 7 times) the Bible appears to condemn male homosexual acts, these passages are anything but clear. How Catholics see these parts of the Bible can and will change. It is difficult to take anti-homosexual bias based on readings of the Old Testament, for example, when most of Leviticus is simple ignored by us. To quote a Catholic scholar John Collins, “Finally, some comment must be made on the relevance of these laws for the modern world. The laws are addressed only to Israelites, and are intended to distinguish Israel from other peoples. They seem to be quite unequivocal, however, in their condemnation of male homosexuality. Attempts to restrict their application (e.g., to intercourse with close relatives) seem misguided. Whether one considers any of these laws still binding is another matter. Few people in the modern world worry as to whether their garments are made of different materials.”

Condemning millions of souls because of a cultural and social bias in ancient societies does not seem to be at all Christ-like. Catholics cannot pick and choose, but many beliefs of the Church have changed over the centuries (slavery comes to mind), and we have an obligation as imperfect mortals to seek and understand the messages of God. It seems like hubris to think we know these without fault.

Many thanks.

Reference
Collins, J. J. (1988). Introduction to the Hebrew Bible : An inductive reading of the Old Testament (150). Englewood Cliffs, N.J.: Prentice Hall."
 
oandmhk said:
Interesting discussion. The statement I find most thought provoking is “Catholics cannot pick and choose what they believe in when it comes to the core tenets of our faith.”

I agree, but this should not be interpreted to mean that Catholics cannot, indeed must not, stop seek the truth of God. No serious Christian scholar, Catholic or other, would say that we have a perfect understanding of the scriptures. And the interpretation of ancient texts, translated and rewritten over the centuries, is a continuing endeavor.

While it is true that on very few occasions (about 6 or 7 times) the Bible appears to condemn male homosexual acts, these passages are anything but clear. How Catholics see these parts of the Bible can and will change. It is difficult to take anti-homosexual bias based on readings of the Old Testament, for example, when most of Leviticus is simple ignored by us. To quote a Catholic scholar John Collins, “Finally, some comment must be made on the relevance of these laws for the modern world. The laws are addressed only to Israelites, and are intended to distinguish Israel from other peoples. They seem to be quite unequivocal, however, in their condemnation of male homosexuality. Attempts to restrict their application (e.g., to intercourse with close relatives) seem misguided. Whether one considers any of these laws still binding is another matter. Few people in the modern world worry as to whether their garments are made of different materials.”

Condemning millions of souls because of a cultural and social bias in ancient societies does not seem to be at all Christ-like. Catholics cannot pick and choose, but many beliefs of the Church have changed over the centuries (slavery comes to mind), and we have an obligation as imperfect mortals to seek and understand the messages of God. It seems like hubris to think we know these without fault.

Many thanks.

Reference
Collins, J. J. (1988). Introduction to the Hebrew Bible : An inductive reading of the Old Testament (150). Englewood Cliffs, N.J.: Prentice Hall."
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Are you serious? No the teaching on homosexuality will not change in the Church regardless what you might think. Even if you don’t take the passages serious in scripture, atleast read what the early Church Fathers said about homo-sexual acts. God created man and woman so that they could procreate.
 
oandmhk said:
Interesting discussion. The statement I find most thought provoking is “Catholics cannot pick and choose what they believe in when it comes to the core tenets of our faith.”

While it is true that on very few occasions (about 6 or 7 times) the Bible appears to condemn male homosexual acts, these passages are anything but clear. How Catholics see these parts of the Bible can and will change. It is difficult to take anti-homosexual bias based on readings of the Old Testament, for example, when most of Leviticus is simple ignored by us. To quote a Catholic scholar John Collins, “Finally, some comment must be made on the relevance of these laws for the modern world. The laws are addressed only to Israelites, and are intended to distinguish Israel from other peoples. They seem to be quite unequivocal, however, in their condemnation of male homosexuality. Attempts to restrict their application (e.g., to intercourse with close relatives) seem misguided. Whether one considers any of these laws still binding is another matter. Few people in the modern world worry as to whether their garments are made of different materials.”

Condemning millions of souls because of a cultural and social bias in ancient societies does not seem to be at all Christ-like. Catholics cannot pick and choose, but many beliefs of the Church have changed over the centuries (slavery comes to mind), and we have an obligation as imperfect mortals to seek and understand the messages of God. It seems like hubris to think we know these without fault.

Many thanks.

Reference
Collins, J. J. (1988). Introduction to the Hebrew Bible : An inductive reading of the Old Testament (150). Englewood Cliffs, N.J.: Prentice Hall."
Click to expand...
what do you mean that the Word of God has changed over the years?

has God changed over the years? yes, the message was for Israel and today is for the Church, nothing has changed that.
are you trying to say that God condemn sins for Israel but it is ok for the Church to do it?
 
oandmhk said:
Interesting discussion. The statement I find most thought provoking is “Catholics cannot pick and choose what they believe in when it comes to the core tenets of our faith.”

I agree, but this should not be interpreted to mean that Catholics cannot, indeed must not, stop seek the truth of God. No serious Christian scholar, Catholic or other, would say that we have a perfect understanding of the scriptures. And the interpretation of ancient texts, translated and rewritten over the centuries, is a continuing endeavor.

While it is true that on very few occasions (about 6 or 7 times) the Bible appears to condemn male homosexual acts, these passages are anything but clear. How Catholics see these parts of the Bible can and will change. It is difficult to take anti-homosexual bias based on readings of the Old Testament, for example, when most of Leviticus is simple ignored by us. To quote a Catholic scholar John Collins, “Finally, some comment must be made on the relevance of these laws for the modern world. The laws are addressed only to Israelites, and are intended to distinguish Israel from other peoples. They seem to be quite unequivocal, however, in their condemnation of male homosexuality. Attempts to restrict their application (e.g., to intercourse with close relatives) seem misguided. Whether one considers any of these laws still binding is another matter. Few people in the modern world worry as to whether their garments are made of different materials.”

Condemning millions of souls because of a cultural and social bias in ancient societies does not seem to be at all Christ-like. Catholics cannot pick and choose, but many beliefs of the Church have changed over the centuries (slavery comes to mind), and we have an obligation as imperfect mortals to seek and understand the messages of God. It seems like hubris to think we know these without fault.

Many thanks.

Reference
Collins, J. J. (1988). Introduction to the Hebrew Bible : An inductive reading of the Old Testament (150). Englewood Cliffs, N.J.: Prentice Hall."
Click to expand...
Many thanks for expressing your view on this site. This will give all of us an opportunity to discuss this situation rationally in a way that is seldom available face-to-face.

While I don’t agree with you, I hope you will enter into this dialogue as a serious search for truth, rather than a condemnation.

Firstly, I think you will agree that God does not lie, nor does he purposely mislead us so that one day He can yell “Gotcha!” He has given us a path. He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.

Secondly, we are all imperfect and we are not setting ourselves up as the sole bearers of truth. Instead, we are trying to hold a lamp up to what we all know as truth, and trying to see what is consistent with truth and what is not.

"…some comment must be made on the relevance of these laws for the modern world. The laws are addressed only to Israelites, and are intended to distinguish Israel from other peoples."

Re the Israelites: The Ten Commandments were given to them by Moses. The Israelites believed in One True God as opposed to the Romans, et al, who had many gods. This certainly set them apart from others. By your logic, are we to say the Ten Commandments do not apply to us and that it is merely an antiquated notion?

"…it is true that on very few occasions (about 6 or 7 times) the Bible appears to condemn male homosexual acts"

By your own words, you say that male homosexuality is condemned 6 or 7 times in the Bible. I say that is a lot, not a few times. After all, many things are addressed only once, and as we know, repetition equates to emphasis.

"Attempts to restrict their application (e.g., to intercourse with close relatives) seem misguided."

I am really confused this reference. Are you thereby advocating incest, pedophilia, etc.? Please clarify.

In the broader view, my concern is that the gay movement within the Church is destroying the Church. Gay clergy and radical gay Nuns have done more harm than any enemy without could have dreamed. Who has closed our schools, abandoned our children, and put forth lies and more lies? We have an obligation to speak the truth.

Wisdomseeker let’s hear more on this from you. P.S. Love the OHCAC.
 
archangel04 said:
This only adds to more confusion in the Church:mad:
how am I suppose to teach younger people especially my young sister, that although society accepts and sees homosexuality as normal and even encouraged, it is still a sin amongst the eyes of God. Yet here we have a Bishop! of one of the largest diocesis in the country that appears to be condoning these abuses at a Church. When will authentic Catholic take control of the Church again, and teach dogmatic truths and Traditional truth instead of preaching gay rights and social justice?
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Exactly right, Archangel04. It is mind-boggling that a high-profile Archbishop of a high-profile city/diocese can blatantly condone abuses, liturgical and theological. Hence, the confusion of that laity that ensues as touched upon by Joly and Truism.

As Truism pointed out, Dolan is in line to become a Cardinal which will increase his sphere of influence and qualify him to vote for the next Pope. We laity must speak up and prevent those with their ego-centered “progressive” catholicism from hijacking God’s true Church even more than they already have.

Chipper: Thanks for your post.

Oandmhk: God created Adam. He then created Eve, not Seth. God would not set us up for failure.

Finally, here is a picture from a previous NYC Gay Pride parade showing the St. Francis Xavier marching banner. google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2499/3676513905_49597edc49.jpg&imgrefurl=http://flickr.com/photos/12094576%40N08/3676513905/&usg=__a0uHx6i6wiqFeREwm0BfWXkBkik=&h=304&w=500&sz=154&hl=en&start=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=XV7YYEEJ-QA8JM:&tbnh=79&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dst%2Bfrancis%2Bxavier%2Bpride%2Bmarch%2Bnyc%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26rlz%3D1T4GPTB_enUS287US287%26tbs%3Disch:1
 
Truism said:
Many thanks for expressing your view on this site. This will give all of us an opportunity to discuss this situation rationally in a way that is seldom available face-to-face.

While I don’t agree with you, I hope you will enter into this dialogue as a serious search for truth, rather than a condemnation.

Firstly, I think you will agree that God does not lie, nor does he purposely mislead us so that one day He can yell “Gotcha!” He has given us a path. He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.

Secondly, we are all imperfect and we are not setting ourselves up as the sole bearers of truth. Instead, we are trying to hold a lamp up to what we all know as truth, and trying to see what is consistent with truth and what is not.

"…some comment must be made on the relevance of these laws for the modern world. The laws are addressed only to Israelites, and are intended to distinguish Israel from other peoples."

Re the Israelites: The Ten Commandments were given to them by Moses. The Israelites believed in One True God as opposed to the Romans, et al, who had many gods. This certainly set them apart from others. By your logic, are we to say the Ten Commandments do not apply to us and that it is merely an antiquated notion?

"…it is true that on very few occasions (about 6 or 7 times) the Bible appears to condemn male homosexual acts"

By your own words, you say that male homosexuality is condemned 6 or 7 times in the Bible. I say that is a lot, not a few times. After all, many things are addressed only once, and as we know, repetition equates to emphasis.

"Attempts to restrict their application (e.g., to intercourse with close relatives) seem misguided."

I am really confused this reference. Are you thereby advocating incest, pedophilia, etc.? Please clarify.

In the broader view, my concern is that the gay movement within the Church is destroying the Church. Gay clergy and radical gay Nuns have done more harm than any enemy without could have dreamed. Who has closed our schools, abandoned our children, and put forth lies and more lies? We have an obligation to speak the truth.

Wisdomseeker let’s hear more on this from you. P.S. Love the OHCAC.
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thanks.
 
archangel04 said:
This only adds to more confusion in the Church:mad:
how am I suppose to teach younger people especially my young sister, that although society accepts and sees homosexuality as normal and even encouraged, it is still a sin amongst the eyes of God. Yet here we have a Bishop! of one of the largest diocesis in the country that appears to be condoning these abuses at a Church. When will authentic Catholic take control of the Church again, and teach dogmatic truths and Traditional truth instead of preaching gay rights and social justice?
Click to expand...
Exactly right, Archangel04. It is mind boggling that a high profile Archbishop of a high profile city/diocese can blatantly condone abuses, liturgical and theological. Hence, the confusion of the laity that ensues as touched upon by** Joly** and Truism.

As Truism pointed out, Archbishop Dolan is in line to become a Cardinal, thereby increasing his sphere of influence and qualifying him to vote for the next Pope. We lay Catholics must speak up and prevent those with their ego-centered, “progressive” catholicism from hijacking God’s true Catholic Church even more than they already have.

Chipper: Thanks for your post.

Oandmhk: God created Adam. He then created Eve, not Seth. God would not set us up for failure.

Finally…if you would like to see the St. Francis Xavier banner that has been used in previous NYC Gay Pride parades, here is a link. google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2499/3676513905_49597edc49.jpg&imgrefurl=http://flickr.com/photos/12094576%40N08/3676513905/&usg=__a0uHx6i6wiqFeREwm0BfWXkBkik=&h=304&w=500&sz=154&hl=en&start=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=XV7YYEEJ-QA8JM:&tbnh=79&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dst%2Bfrancis%2Bxavier%2Bpride%2Bmarch%2Bnyc%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26rlz%3D1T4GPTB_enUS287US287%26tbs%3Disch:1
 
Truth_Fully said:
Exactly right, Archangel04. It is mind boggling that a high profile Archbishop of a high profile city/diocese can blatantly condone abuses, liturgical and theological. Hence, the confusion of the laity that ensues as touched upon by** Joly** and Truism.

As Truism pointed out, Archbishop Dolan is in line to become a Cardinal, thereby increasing his sphere of influence and qualifying him to vote for the next Pope. We lay Catholics must speak up and prevent those with their ego-centered, “progressive” catholicism from hijacking God’s true Catholic Church even more than they already have.

Chipper: Thanks for your post.

Oandmhk: God created Adam. He then created Eve, not Seth. God would not set us up for failure.

Finally…if you would like to see the St. Francis Xavier banner that has been used in previous NYC Gay Pride parades, here is a link. google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2499/3676513905_49597edc49.jpg&imgrefurl=http://flickr.com/photos/12094576%40N08/3676513905/&usg=__a0uHx6i6wiqFeREwm0BfWXkBkik=&h=304&w=500&sz=154&hl=en&start=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=XV7YYEEJ-QA8JM:&tbnh=79&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dst%2Bfrancis%2Bxavier%2Bpride%2Bmarch%2Bnyc%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26rlz%3D1T4GPTB_enUS287US287%26tbs%3Disch:1
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this is really horrifying. how can this be? then somebody protests against it, they stop using the banner and work quietly within the Church to enforce their agenda. this is not much different from the Church in california.
they make good money and are infiltrating the Church anyway they can. just think of what these people are doing to the Church. how can the Church preach about morals when something like this is going inside the Church?
 
wisdomseeker said:
this is really horrifying. how can this be? then somebody protests against it, they stop using the banner and work quietly within the Church to enforce their agenda. this is not much different from the Church in california.
they make good money and are infiltrating the Church anyway they can. just think of what these people are doing to the Church. how can the Church preach about morals when something like this is going inside the Church?
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You really are a voice of reason, wisdomseeker. If only we had more people like you - both in the pulpit and in the pews - to speak the truth in a straightforward, no-nonsense way. God bless you.
 
Have you guys even seen the comments? These people are quick to attack (me) as soon as any truth is posted on there. Especially on the CNN one. They keep insisting that I provide proof that the majority of the abuses where done by homo-sexual priest.
 
To Archangel

Yes, I have seen how they are attacking you. Do you notice how they immediately become hostile and intolerant - and they are the people who claim to be so tolerant. My experience is that they never tolerate the truth.

Don’t let them get to you. Venom is the weapon when truth and reason are absent.

For the record - you are not in their bedrooms. They are in your church with all their rainbows flying everywhere.

To Joly

To answer your question as to whether they receive Communion . Check out the CNN video. The woman who says she is actively gay is clearly on the Communion line. This is an abomination, not a sacrament. I understand why you are confused but stick to Our Lord and His Blessed Mother. They speak the real truth, not the words of these people who would pervert and disgrace our Churches and Sacraments.
 
Truth_Fully said:
You really are a voice of reason, wisdomseeker. If only we had more people like you - both in the pulpit and in the pews - to speak the truth in a straightforward, no-nonsense way. God bless you.
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thank you. God bless you too.
 
Truism said:
To Archangel

Yes, I have seen how they are attacking you. Do you notice how they immediately become hostile and intolerant - and they are the people who claim to be so tolerant. My experience is that they never tolerate the truth.

Don’t let them get to you. Venom is the weapon when truth and reason are absent.

For the record - you are not in their bedrooms. They are in your church with all their rainbows flying everywhere.
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Ha ha you did read the comments. Thanks it means a lot to have support from fellow Catholics and you are right I am not in their room (and don’t want to be) they are in our Church trying to change the teaching of Jesus Christ. It’s like somone comming into my house and destroying it and disrespecting my mother.
 
wisdomseeker said:
Somebody outgh to send this video straight to the Vatican. including the name of this Bishop.
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Thank you wisdomseeker. I agree. I would urge all who see this to please e-mail the following info. to the Vatican ( benedettoxvi@vatican.va ) :

(1) the link to St. Francis Xavier’s website: sfxavier.org/

(2) the “Rededication Mass” video: youtube.com/watch?v=sQEmO07DpaI

This case is so symbolic of everything that is wrong with the Church. Not only should this parish be exposed, the question needs to be asked: Why would Archbishop Dolan be appointed to the “task force” charged with cleaning up the abuse mess in Ireland when he is promoting the gay agenda in the U.S.?

Let’s help open the Pope’s eyes.
 
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