Views on Wicca

[Sowndog]

Back to the topic at hand, I find the Wiccan practice to be a little confusing. I have no criticism of the practicioners themselves, as they seem to be a nice bunch in general. However silly it may seem to me, I guess I have to respect it as I would any other non-Christian religion. As I don’t know a lot about it I would only leave myself open to criticism if I commented in too much detail!

I’m interested to know the purpose of the Wiccan living life with moral values. If there is no higher purpose for morals, then why bother with them at all? To use St Paul’s words:

If I fought wild beasts in Ephesus for merely human reasons, what have I gained? If the dead are not raised, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.” (1 Cor 15:32)

 

[dfb1105]

This appears to me to be people who worship the creation instead of the creator. :whacky:

 

[HOMEBOUND]

Jdg164:

Syrokal, from your point of view, all magick is not black and using spiritual powers to help or understand not evil. To a Christian, even more specifically a Catholic, magick (whether it is labeled black or white) is a form of divination- an attempt to know or control or change what is not meant for us to know/control/change. This is not the same as looking for a local hospital on the net b/c searching the net for a medical facility does not fall under spiritism or divination.

Well clearly if someone does not believe in something, they would not acknowledge it. This makes perfect sense. But someone who does believe in Satan can describe someone or something as “in his grip.” An analogy: someone may not believe in cancer. They do not recognize the cancer and hence do not seek medical treatment because obviously, you wouldn’t seek treatment for something you don’t believe is there. A Dr. however would believe the person has it because HE believes in it.
Many people here argue from their own point of view. That’s fine. But what is necessary to understand is that if the person you are arguing/discussing something with does NOT share the same POV, much of what you will attempt to point out is moot.

 

[BlessedBe13]

dfb1105:

This appears to me to be people who worship the creation instead of the creator. :whacky:

I’m not sure what you are talking about, because I most certainly worship my creator(s). I do not worship trees, I do not worship rocks, I do not worship water. However, I believe that these things are sacred because they were created by my creator(s) and that they are within every part of nature. (which, as a Catholic, I was also taught that God is ‘everywhere’, and to respect what he created, so there’s not much difference there). The only difference I see is that I do not have to grovel before and be afraid of eternal punishment from the deities I worship.

 

[rayne89]

I’m sorry if this sounds uncharitable but Wicca just gives me the creeps .
I’ve know two professed Wiccans, one pretty well (we worked together for a while and he was one of those people that tell you their life story).

He was raised strict Baptist. Growing up he developed same sex attraction and was rejected by his faith. He became friends with someone who happened to Wiccan and felt welcomed there. I felt sorry for this guy, he’d been thru alot of nasty things in his childhood. But his life style was just horrendous. He made porno movies on the side, was very active in a promiscuous (often annoymous) gay lifestyle. The morality of Wiccans judged by a *Christian standard *is pretty low. I’m not just going by this particular guy’s but by what he told told me about their practices and the other Wiccan I met while my husband served in the Navy. Sorry Wiccans I know that sounds offensive but we’re talking about from a Christian perspective. Just like magick is magick from a Christian perspective we do not seperate “good” from “bad”.

As for someone not being in the grips of Satan because the don’t acknowledge him? I would say most of those in his grip don’t acknowledge him and that’s the way he wants it. Your an easy target.

As far as staying away from all Wiccans, I think it depends. I think this guy needed to know not all Christians were going to bash him because of his same sex attraction. I was friends with him at work despite his strange ways.

 

[Exporter]

Is Wicca a religion? Webster’s says no!

**From Webster’s : Religion is…b **(1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices

I have asked three people who say they are Wiccans what they believe, etc. One was a 20 year old girl who is being treated for Manic Depressiveness, another was a 23 year old man who has been an Atheist all his life until a year ago and the third was a lady who was about 50 who has tried several New Age “religions”. They are not religions.

They tell me that there are many Gods, and they give aligience to a male and a female pair of Gods. They have no Creed, no fixed beliefs either. Each of these did not get Wicca information from another person one on one - they got their information from books and the internet. They want us Christians to honor their fragmented beliefs as a religion. These are sad people who for some reason avoid Christian, Jewish or Islamic religions.:nope:

 

[Exporter]

/But most people dont “want”. To be with god because they dislike the way that christianity and its counterparts operate.
The same was said about Christianity in its founding days.
All religions are the same.
Differant paths
Same Goal.

All religions are the same, so says Syrokal.

All the founders of all religions except Chritianity are dead!

Jesus Christ lives. Mohammed is dead, Buhdda is dead!

 

[raphaela]

Buddha isn’t a god…just a man

Buddhism isn’t a religion…just a way of life.

 

[BlessedBe13]

rayne89:

But his life style was just horrendous. He made porno movies on the side, was very active in a promiscuous (often annoymous) gay lifestyle. The morality of Wiccans judged by a *Christian standard *is pretty low. I’m not just going by this particular guy’s but by what he told told me about their practices and the other Wiccan I met while my husband served in the Navy.

Part of the Wiccan rede is “harm none” - this includes oneself. I would not participate in pornography because I see it as “harmful” to myself in the sense that I think it is degrading to oneself. I am not gay, but I would not live a promiscuous lifestyle either, because I also find it degrading and it could also be harmful with the risk of STD’s. I am sorry this man had a hard childhood, but there are people like this in any religion and so he is an individual case and does not represent all (or most) Wiccans. Just as the priests involved in the sex scandel do not represent all Catholics. Many Wiccans also believe in the law of karma - essentially, what you do, is going to catch up with you eventually.Another good reason to have morals since if you do something wrong, it’s going to come back to haunt you.

Wicca’s morals as I see it, are based on respect for oneself and others and in not harming oneself or others, which I don’t see to be any “lower” than Christian morals.

 

[BlessedBe13]

QUOTE=Exporter]

All the founders of all religions except Chritianity are dead!

Jesus Christ lives. Mohammed is dead, Buhdda is dead!
I’m sorry to tell you, but Jesus also died a long time ago.

He is alive in spirit, just as Mohammed and Buhdda are also alive in spirit.

 

[Tom_of_Assisi]

BlessedBe13:

I’m not sure what you are talking about, because I most certainly worship my creator(s). I do not worship trees, I do not worship rocks, I do not worship water. However, I believe that these things are sacred because they were created by my creator(s) and that they are within every part of nature. (which, as a Catholic, I was also taught that God is ‘everywhere’, and to respect what he created, so there’s not much difference there). The only difference I see is that I do not have to grovel before and be afraid of eternal punishment from the deities I worship.

I don’t understand what you are trying to say…do you believe in God or gods? Please specify which deities you mean when you mention deities. Which one (God or gods) created you and the rocks and water?

1. “grovel before”: do you mean worship?
2. not “afraid of eternal punishment”: Do you mean you can reject God and then be in heaven with Him? Why would you believe that you get to heaven by rejecting God? I’m not sure I understand what the point of that would be.

Please clarify these understandings you’ve arrived at, so we can understand what you are trying to say. Thanks

 

[Heathen_Dawn]

dfb1105:

This appears to me to be people who worship the creation instead of the creator. :whacky:

Nay, the Creator can be worshipped by worshipping His creations—trees, stars, rivers and rocks. That way the word “instead” goes out the window.

To Worship Wood and Stone

 

[Heathen_Dawn]

Is Wicca a religion? Webster’s says no!

Argumentum ad Dictionarium, eh? LOL. Try harder.

They tell me that there are many Gods, and they give aligience to a male and a female pair of Gods. They have no Creed, no fixed beliefs either. Each of these did not get Wicca information from another person one on one - they got their information from books and the internet.

And does this source make it any the less of a religion? Why so?

They want us Christians to honor their fragmented beliefs as a religion.

Frag— HAHAHA! Catholics, Orthodox, Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans, Anglicans, Presbyterians, Charismatics… und es geht weiter!

These are sad people who for some reason avoid Christian, Jewish or Islamic religions.:nope:

Nope nope. I was a practicing Orthodox Jewish monotheist for two years. No avoidance. Just weighed and found wanting.

All religions are the same, so says Syrokal.

I don’t agree with that.

All the founders of all religions except Chritianity are dead!

Jesus Christ lives. Mohammed is dead, Buhdda is dead!

Hercules is alive too. Yes, I know he didn’t found a religion, but you can’t find him entombed anywhere, just like Jesus. Indeed the Gods have power to grant immortality to whomever They wish.

 

[Nothinginsecret]

*"…in witchcraft, as commonly understood, there is involved the idea of a diabolical pact or at least an appeal to the intervention of the spirits of evil. In such cases this supernatural aid is usually invoked either to compass the death of some obnoxious person, or to awaken the passion of love in those who are the objects of desire, or to call up the dead, or to bring calamity or impotence upon enemies, rivals, and fancied oppressors. This is not an exhaustive enumeration, but these represent some of the principal purposes that witchcraft has been made to serve at nearly all periods of the world’s history. *

In the traditional belief, not only of the dark ages, but of post-Reformation times, the witches or wizards addicted to such practices entered into a compact with Satan, adjured Christ and the Sacraments, observed “the witches’ sabbath” — performing infernal rites which often took the shape of a parody of the Mass or the offices of the Church — paid Divine honour to the Prince of Darkness, and in return received from him preternatural powers, such as those of riding through the air on a broomstick, assuming different shapes at will, and tormenting their chosen victims, while an imp or “familiar spirit” was placed at their disposal, able and willing to perform any service that might be needed to further their nefarious purposes."

newadvent.org/cathen/15674a.htm

 

[Nothinginsecret]

"Catholic theology defines magic as the art of performing actions beyond the power of man with the aid of powers other than the Divine, and condemns it and any attempt at it as a grievous sin against the virtue of religion, because all magical performances, if undertaken seriously, are based on the expectation of interference by demons or lost souls. Even if undertaken out of curiosity the performance of a magical ceremony is sinful as it either proves a lack of faith or is a vain superstition*."*

newadvent.org/cathen/11197b.htm

 

[Sowndog]

rayne89:

As for someone not being in the grips of Satan because the don’t acknowledge him? I would say most of those in his grip don’t acknowledge him and that’s the way he wants it. Your an easy target.

Very true. Satan’s greatest trick is to make people believe he is not real.

 

[Heathen_Dawn]

rayne89:

As for someone not being in the grips of Satan because the don’t acknowledge him?

Of course not because of that. The reason I’m not in the grips of Satan is that he doesn’t really exist. He wouldn’t even if I thought he did.

Sowndog:

Satan’s greatest trick is to make people believe he is not real.

No, Yahweh’s greatest trick is to make people believe He is the only God. And that He created the universe. And that Satan is real.

 

[BlessedBe13]

Tom of Assisi:

I don’t understand what you are trying to say…do you believe in God or gods? Please specify which deities you mean when you mention deities. Which one (God or gods) created you and the rocks and water?

I believe in a god and goddess that created everything.
Tom of Assisi:

1. “grovel before”: do you mean worship?

Nope. I believe it is quite possible to worship the Divine without groveling in fear before him/her/it and worrying that some wrong move will send me to eternal damnation.
Tom of Assisi:

1. not “afraid of eternal punishment”: Do you mean you can reject God and then be in heaven with Him? Why would you believe that you get to heaven by rejecting God? I’m not sure I understand what the point of that would be.

I’m not rejecting the Divine. And I don’t believe in heaven - at least not in the sense that Christians seem to. Since I really believe that there is only one Divine Creator, which is viewed in different aspects/forms by different religions, I don’t believe that any religion is “rejecting god”. As for those that don’t believe in the Divine at all, I believe in an all loving god/ess so it wouldn’t make sense that an all loving creator would send anyone to eternal torture, especially since the concept of the Divine can be a hard one to grasp/understand/believe in.

 

[BlessedBe13]

Exporter:

They want us Christians to honor their fragmented beliefs as a religion.

I’m going to have to agree with Heathen_Dawn on this one.

Exporter:

These are sad people who for some reason avoid Christian, Jewish or Islamic religions.:nope:

Nope, I was born and raised Catholic, but as I grew older I realized the beliefs really didn’t fit my own, so why remain part of a religion whose beliefs differ from mine. I have friends of other religions - I don’t avoid them either.

 

[Nothinginsecret]

Heathen Dawn:

Of course not because of that. The reason I’m not in the grips of Satan is that he doesn’t really exist. He wouldn’t even if I thought he did.

No, Yahweh’s greatest trick is to make people believe He is the only God. And that He created the universe. And that Satan is real.

Could you refer us to a source that supports these claims?