Walmart walkout: workers mount black Friday job action

[Trader]

There is no way I was going to shop anywhere either on Thanksgiving Day or on Black Friday. Fighting crowds to buy something I don’t really need is just not my thing.

But today, while watching one of the NFL games on television, I was disturbed by a particular commercial. Imagine extended families gathered together only a few times a year enjoying their dessert and maybe drinks, and on the TV is an ad from a local law firm extolling its expertise in divorce, paternity, and child custody disputes. I am not kidding. This is more outrageous than anything I could make up.

 

[ishii]

There is no way I was going to shop anywhere either on Thanksgiving Day or on Black Friday. Fighting crowds to buy something I don’t really need is just not my thing.

But today, while watching one of the NFL games on television, I was disturbed by a particular commercial. Imagine extended families gathered together only a few times a year enjoying their dessert and maybe drinks, and on the TV is an ad from a local law firm extolling its expertise in divorce, paternity, and child custody disputes. I am not kidding. This is more outrageous than anything I could make up.

Solution: turn the TV off.

Ishii

 

[ishii]

 I posted it earlier on this thread,but it got ignored in the race to badmouth low wage workers.

What is it with the view of poor people here? Here these folks are,taking low wage jobs for a variety of reasons-it’s all that’s out there, they don’t have the education for whatever reason, maybe they just don’t want to live completely on welfare- and all the good Christians at CAF can do is hope they get fired or lecture them for wanting ONE holiday with their families or a wage that doesn’t require heading to the local food pantry to feed their kids.

Happy Thanksgiving, I hope you and everyone else on CAF has a great one!

Why do you assume I have a particular view of poor people just because we happen to disagree politically? If I worked at Walmart, I would be doing my best to get into a better situation. Seeker1961, I have had jobs - worse jobs than Walmart. I resolved to get myself into a better situation. But I have been blessed to have an education that afforded me better opportunities that not all Walmart or other low-wage earners have. I am not sure that every job needs to have a “living wage”. Some work part time for extra money. Some are not the primary wage earner. Should a teenage McD’s burger flipper get a living wage? Seeker, when I worked in retail not long ago, I saw folks with foodstamps purchasing luxury items that I am not able to afford - “working” the system. They didn’t need food stamps. We need to limit such help to those who need it, and put a time limit on the entitlment.

  News flash folks-being financially successful doesn't mean God loves you more. That's the prosperity gospel,and the last I checked, that's not Catholic teaching. ***Catholic teaching tells us that if we make our money by treating other people unfairly or dishonestly, we're not in such a good place ourselves.  ***You can ignore that if you wish, but don't talk about the "cafeteria" Catholics who ignore the teachings you like to emphasize.

(my bold italics) Interesting that you would mention that - do you think anyone who is successful and makes money does so by cheating or treating people unfairly? That would seem to suggest a built in disliking for successful people, as well as a lack of understanding of how our economic system works. And it would explain a lot about your political views.

There but for the grace of God…

Agree. We all should be thankful for all we have.

Ishii

 

[TimeEntrance]

I am trying to understand you. Are you saying that there’s no reason why a dentist should make $200,000 a year but a guy sorting packages for UPS make $8/hr?

No, I’m saying there is nothing in the heavens saying a dentist should make $200,000 a year or an NBA player should make X millions of dollars a year.

Dentists and medical doctors in Cuba I’m sure make no where near as much their professional peers in the United States. That’s not suggesting the Cuban system is necessarily better (or worse - at least in all ways).

Because I can think of a lot of reasons for that, can’t you? Being a Dentist requires a small fortune to complete the necessary schooling. Then you have to invest a lot of money upfront to start a practice? You are responsible for a lot - if you screw up, it could cause intense pain or oral damage. On the other hand, the UPS guy needs to merely memorize some zip codes and be able to lift 40 lbs. If he screws up, nothing really bad happens - someone gets their parcel late.

Ishii

Collective bargaining allows people to command a certain price level on their labor not so unlike dentists or professional athletes being able to command a certain price.

Many dentists - and dentists teaching in dental schools - earn a lot less than many professional athletes. Mike Tyson use to command a price tag of $30 million for a fight (that often only lasted a few minutes). Over his career he earned at least $300 million dollars - over a quarter billion dollars. He could do this because of capitalism. And in capitalism if you can command the price then you can get it.

The UPS workers using collective bargaining simply command a price far lower but one that is reasonable to them as average people.

UPS drivers actually get paid much better. And as I understand it their semi-truck drivers that drive across states earn respectable wages… $90,000 a year I think?

 

[oldcelt]

There is no way I was going to shop anywhere either on Thanksgiving Day or on Black Friday. Fighting crowds to buy something I don’t really need is just not my thing.

I am with you there. Insane consumerism is something we could do very well without.

Would it really kill any of us not to be able to shop a few days a year?

John

 

[TimeEntrance]

At last report, the Walton family is worth $93 billion. No further comment.

I see you live in New York City, Meltze.

I never heard of 740 Park Avenue until this show (1A). I don’t really hate on these super-rich people - and I try not to be envious (but it’s easy to slip into at moments) - but I will say hand down I’m awed by some of their wealth. I’m awed because I’ve never experienced that and it seems almost like an alien world to me. But I’m awed in more of a neutral kind of way.

I don’t think there’s any problem being rich per se or even super rich. I’m rich compared to a poor, rural, Ethiopian.

The United States as a country - and the super rich in the world - probably hog too much, too disproportionately, the resources of the world. That can be a problem on several levels.

New York City has more billionaires than any other country. And supposedly Europe now offers more upward mobility than the United States (1B). That surprised me.

1A. pbs.org/independentlens/park-avenue/film.html

1B. journeyman.tv/63948/short-films/richie-rich-gets-richer.html

 

[ringil]

At last report, the Walton family is worth $93 billion. No further comment.

“Sweat off the brow”
“Blood, sweat, and tears”
“Pick yourself up by the bootstraps”
“Hard work and determination”

Blah, Blah Blah. . . . .

 

[rlg94086]

I see you live in New York City, Meltze.

I never heard of 740 Park Avenue until this show (1A). I don’t really hate on these super-rich people - and I try not to be envious (but it’s easy to slip into at moments) - but I will say hand down I’m awed by some of their wealth. I’m awed because I’ve never experienced that and it seems almost like an alien world to me. But I’m awed in more of a neutral kind of way.

I don’t think there’s any problem being rich per se or even super rich. I’m rich compared to a poor, rural, Ethiopian.

The United States as a country - and the super rich in the world - probably hog too much, too disproportionately, the resources of the world. That can be a problem on several levels.

New York City has more billionaires than any other country. And supposedly Europe now offers more upward mobility than the United States (1B). That surprised me.

1A. pbs.org/independentlens/park-avenue/film.html

1B. journeyman.tv/63948/short-films/richie-rich-gets-richer.html

Craziest rich person stories I’ve heard…

1. Yesterday, a trucker came to ship the $200k Ford GT our VP (owner’s son) just sold to a guy in Arkansas - he already owns a couple, so I guess he’s a collector. One of the trucker’s other customers buys three new cars per year - Rolls, Bentley and either a Porsche or Lamborghini…but that’s not the crazy part. When he travels to Beverley Hills, he has the guy truck all three cars from his home in Miami to the Beverly Hills Hotel, so they are on hand to drive.
2. One of my colleagues’ son-in-laws is a pilot for the Google founders. Their private 737 has a plaque in it that states that they offset their carbon consumption by planting trees. That’s good, I guess, since he flies the 2 wives in a 737 to the East Coast, so they can go shopping.

It’s all good though…they are liberals, so there is no evil going on…

 

[ringil]

Craziest rich person stories I’ve heard…

1. Yesterday, a trucker came to ship the $200k Ford GT our VP (owner’s son) just sold to a guy in Arkansas - he already owns a couple, so I guess he’s a collector. One of the trucker’s other customers buys three new cars per year - Rolls, Bentley and either a Porsche or Lamborghini…but that’s not the crazy part. When he travels to Beverley Hills, he has the guy truck all three cars from his home in Miami to the Beverly Hills Hotel, so they are on hand to drive.
2. One of my colleagues’ son-in-laws is a pilot for the Google founders. Their private 737 has a plaque in it that states that they offset their carbon consumption by planting trees. That’s good, I guess, since he flies the 2 wives in a 737 to the East Coast, so they can go shopping.

It’s all good though…they are liberals, so there is no evil going on…

Google treats their employees really well thus I’ve got no problem with their managers wealth- purely on a secular level that is. Perhaps their degree of wealth and how they manage it is immoral spiritually- indeed, perhaps mine is.

We don’t see Google employee’s protesting do we?

But on a secular level I believe that a CEO or manager must take care of those below him- so that they believe they are cared for- before he can amass great wealth.

 

[datritle]

it is so disheartening to hear my fellow Catholics say, suck it up, you’re poor, you’re lazy and it’s the best you can get, so get back to work. WE ALL DESERVE DIGNITY IN WORK. WHATEVER THAT WORK MAY BE. i stand in solidarity with the walmart WORKERS. Godd bless you and stand by you.

 

[adrift]

Well, there’s a fair chance they will. They’ve got the purse strings.

Doesn’t make it right.

Doesn’t make it wrong.

 

[adrift]

Would you rather they collect unemployment? For some people, Walmart is the best job they can get.

Where I live, they are the major place that hires. They are not good to their employees now that is a change from when Sam Walton was alive. He was good to the employees. The bottom line to them is money. Eventually their policies will make them fold. The company has been unfair to women at least here. They did promote hiring older folks for positions like door greeter.

 

[rlg94086]

Google treats their employees really well thus I’ve got no problem with their managers wealth- purely on a secular level that is. Perhaps their degree of wealth and how they manage it is immoral spiritually- indeed, perhaps mine is.

We don’t see Google employee’s protesting do we?

But on a secular level I believe that a CEO or manager must take care of those below him- so that they believe they are cared for- before he can amass great wealth.

We also don’t see Starbucks employees protesting…as they work Thanksgiving and Christmas, or concession workers at sporting events. Apparently, people only care if the employees protest. Everything must be fine for the other “high paid” retail workers…just not at Walmart.

And, of course you love your hypocritical environmentalist CEOs who buy carbon credits, so they can fly a huge jet with 2 people to go shopping in New York for the day. I’m glad they treat their employees well, though. That makes everything okay.

 

[adrift]

2434 A just wage is the legitimate fruit of work. To refuse or withhold it can be a grave injustice.221 In determining fair pay both the needs and the contributions of each person must be taken into account. “Remuneration for work should guarantee man the opportunity to provide a dignified livelihood for himself and his family on the material, social, cultural, and spiritual level, taking into account the role and the productivity of each, the state of the business, and the common good.”222 Agreement between the parties is not sufficient to justify morally the amount to be received in wages.

I think it was an over sight on your part that you didn’t name your source or perhaps you assumed we were smart enough to recognize the Catechism.

2432 Those responsible for business enterprises are responsible to society for the economic and ecological effects of their operations.217 They have an obligation to consider the good of persons and not only the increase of profits. Profits are necessary, however. They make possible the investments that ensure the future of a business and they guarantee employment.

 

[oldcelt]

it is so disheartening to hear my fellow Catholics say, suck it up, you’re poor, you’re lazy and it’s the best you can get, so get back to work. WE ALL DESERVE DIGNITY IN WORK. WHATEVER THAT WORK MAY BE. i stand in solidarity with the walmart WORKERS. Godd bless you and stand by you.

I agree on all points.

 

[rlg94086]

I agree on all points.

Me too, but these protests don’t fix the larger problem. Focusing hatred on one retailer (the favorite target of liberals), does nothing to move our economy toward a system that truly respects human dignity.

 

[oldcelt]

Me too, but these protests don’t fix the larger problem. Focusing hatred on one retailer (the favorite target of liberals), does nothing to move our economy toward a system that truly respects human dignity.

You’re probably right, but Walmart is the ultimate big target. They are very hard to miss, and many of their practices make it all the easier.

John

 

[rlg94086]

You’re probably right, but Walmart is the ultimate big target. They are very hard to miss, and many of their practices make it all the easier.

John

Meh. It’s like protesting against a huge slaveholder because he treats his slaves poorly. If he would just treat his slaves well, everybody would be happy with their slavery.

 

[oldcelt]

Meh. It’s like protesting against a huge slaveholder because he treats his slaves poorly. If he would just treat his slaves well, everybody would be happy with their slavery.

I’d never thought of it that way…interesting analogy.

 

[ringil]

And, of course you love your hypocritical environmentalist CEOs who buy carbon credits, so they can fly a huge jet with 2 people to go shopping in New York for the day. I’m glad they treat their employees well, though. That makes everything okay.

It does make it OK- that is the very point of my posts.

Start with the workers and move from there.

Once Google or Starbucks employees start raising their voices- yes- it’s time to pay attention.

Wal-Mart is plagued with employee complaints.