Was She Evil?

[misericordie]

springbreeze:

Dear friend

No-one can make you do anything you do not want to do…period. There is no chance that anyone will get me to do anything I really do not want to do, they can tempt me, give me the best talk they have on it, give me all the reasoning etc, still I will not do what I do not want to do. So you have to accept that some part of you WANTED to do certain things, or you could not have been led on this path. So now you see you have a weakness and are about to join the rest of the human race that possesses some weakness, as we are all weak in some way or other!

‘Let is make them in Our Own Image, Let Us make them male and female’ …It is not the fault of sexes and no-one should set up woman against man nor man against woman, it is simply the fault of the broken human nature and you must resist it with all you mind heart body and soul and then you will love God with all your mind heart body and soul as well as your neighbour (your neighbour being women as well as men! ). Jesus isn’t sexist and neither is the Church!

‘He who loves me will obey my commands’

We all have to make God’s Will our own will, simple, yet hard to do…keep praying!!!

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

Two fallacies in your arguments here: 1. “no one can make you do what you don’t want to.” Yes, this is true, however tradition shows, that a woman can call the shots many times when a guy wants to be overlly touchy etc. and a guy can too. However, many women knowing that guys are more VISUAL then them, use certain tactics to seduce. Even my female friend who are very decent and in their 20’s say this. 2. You seem to downplay in this the fact of natural inclination to sin when you say “no one can force us to do what we don’t want to.” Yes! Free will is important, by overall argument which you seem to miss is the womanly advantage of powers of seduction OVER men.

 

[misericordie]

Church Militant:

School? Check out what they wear to Mass!

YUP!!!:yup: But the ultra radical feminists will probably be offended you said this, though it is true! I guess it’s like trying to deny there is a moon and a sun.

 

[NightRider]

"Dear Friend "
Look…you can be appalled all ya want…I didn’t write the passage in question and if ya don’t like it, then take it up with Solomon or whoever authored Ecclesiates. It’s not my fault that the passage is like that and you can read the context and it won’t change a bit.

Maybe you’d prefer some more “inclusive language”? Get off us guys and put that defensive stuff back in your sock or wherever you got it, ‘cos you’re whinin’ about something that wasn’t in the intent of my post and I’m not gonna wear your stupid recriminations.

I presented a passage of scripture- period. There’s a lot of 'em like that and that’s not what this is about. If you want somebody to dump on you girls, then you better go pester someone else…because you’ve hung it all on the wrong guy.
Get off…
http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/cart204.gif

Like the brit lady said: “and only the female idiot would demonise men.”

FYI: it is exactly this sort of image above that makes many of us women absolutely disgusted. It is truly sickening. It tells a lot about the man…

 

[misericordie]

BlindSheep:

Spring, I have to respectfully disagree. He clearly stated that it “cuts both ways”, therefore applying it to both sexes.

If anything, his presentation diffused any possibility for a sexist interpretation.

If you see that post as a slur, perhaps you should examine your own preconceptions. I read it too, and there was no slur on the equality of women whatsoever. Perhaps you are reading what you expect to see rather than what is actually written?

How you can possibly find fodder for the above outburst on this thread is beyond me.

And the peace of Christ be with you.

springbreez seems to be VERY young and inexperienced in this topic.
I must say, wow, us “old men” as she puts it: naive. At 34 and physically looking as if I am 26 (been to told by both men and women). She seems to want to do what Derida wnated: to re-write Scripture too.

 

[misericordie]

"Dear Friend "
Look…you can be appalled all ya want…I didn’t write the passage in question and if ya don’t like it, then take it up with Solomon or whoever authored Ecclesiates. It’s not my fault that the passage is like that and you can read the context and it won’t change a bit.

Maybe you’d prefer some more “inclusive language”? Get off us guys and put that defensive stuff back in your sock or wherever you got it, ‘cos you’re whinin’ about something that wasn’t in the intent of my post and I’m not gonna wear your stupid recriminations.

I presented a passage of scripture- period. There’s a lot of 'em like that and that’s not what this is about. If you want somebody to dump on you girls, then you better go pester someone else…because you’ve hung it all on the wrong guy.
Get off…
http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/cart204.gif

Like the brit lady said: “and only the female idiot would demonise men.”

Love this picture, he he. Yes, what you say, well, these feminists have an agenda and what I wrote of MY experience seems to hit in OONE person a raw nerve, and I must ask, WHY??? Freus would probably say, PROJECTION, otherwise there would be no inner anger directed OUTWARDLY.

 

[shannon_e]

I agree with Trailblazer-- that it’s easy to mis-read the intent behind 2D words on a page.

Teresa-- an ultra fem?? I almost fell off my chair.
That is pretty far off the mark, my friend.

Let’s make one thing clear:
Defense of women does not equal feminism.

It seems clear that folks got a bit defensive.
Michael (CM)-- your response to Teresa came off as the harshest of all. that surprised me. Just IMO.

Mis–
please remember that Teresa gave you some very good advice before everybody’s feathers got ruffled–

Mis-- go to the PureLove site, and arm yourself with more knowledge and conviction.

Didn’t you ask the woman to stop speaking that way? And if you let her continue, then that is definitely something you need to ask yourself and God about.

Mis–
the fact that women are not visually inclined makes it very easy for women to forget and/or not comprehend that men are so visually inclined. [and without knowing what the woman knows or doesn’t know- we can’t begin to assume to know how cuplable she was]

The secular world doesn’t teach these differences-- the secular world is too busy promoting the lie that we are the same.

Peace to you bro
and prayers!

 

[misericordie]

shannon e:

I agree with Trailblazer-- that it’s easy to mis-read the intent behind 2D words on a page.

Teresa-- an ultra fem?? I almost fell off my chair.
That is pretty far off the mark, my friend.

Let’s make one thing clear:
Defense of women does not equal feminism.

It seems clear that folks got a bit defensive.
Michael (CM)-- your response to Teresa came off as the harshest of all. that surprised me. Just IMO.

Mis–
please remember that Teresa gave you some very good advice before everybody’s feathers got ruffled–

Mis-- go to the PureLove site, and arm yourself with more knowledge and conviction.

Didn’t you ask the woman to stop speaking that way? And if you let her continue, then that is definitely something you need to ask yourself and God about.

Mis–
the fact that women are not visually inclined makes it very easy for women to forget and/or not comprehend that men are so visually inclined. [and without knowing what the woman knows or doesn’t know- we can’t begin to assume to know how cuplable she was]

The secular world doesn’t teach these differences-- the secular world is too busy promoting the lie that we are the same.

Peace to you bro
and prayers!

Let’s not forget that the “secular” world also wants women to be men, and men women and the “secular” world also (of the USA) teaches a form of “Radical feminism” as Pope John Paul II said at one point.

 

[Fieryjades]

I suggest that you pray for this woman and that you are given the gift of chastity and charity. Please find it in your heart to forgive this woman because we are taught to love others as we love ourselves—even our enemies.

Peace be with you,
Fieryjades

 

[misericordie]

Fieryjades:

I suggest that you pray for this woman and that you are given the gift of chastity and charity. Please find it in your heart to forgive this woman because we are taught to love others as we love ourselves—even our enemies.

Peace be with you,
Fieryjades

True.

 

[shannon_e]

misericordie:

Let’s not forget that the “secular” world also wants women to be men, and men women and the “secular” world also (of the USA) teaches a form of “Radical feminism” as Pope John Paul II said at one point.

Ahhh, dear JPII.

He really opened my eyes to how the evil one has caused such animosity and defensiveness and the inclination to demonize the opposite sex.

In Mulieris Dignitatum (sp?), JP states that this wedge between the sexes was the consequence of the original sin-- and that it is something we all need to fight against.

We need to keep our eyes on Christ-- and remember that Christ is in everyone. We need to be known by the way we love each other.

 

[misericordie]

shannon e:

Ahhh, dear JPII.

He really opened my eyes to how the evil one has caused such animosity and defensiveness and the inclination to demonize the opposite sex.

In Mulieris Dignitatum (sp?), JP states that this wedge between the sexes was the consequence of the original sin-- and that it is something we all need to fight against.

We need to keep our eyes on Christ-- and remember that Christ is in everyone. We need to be known by the way we love each other.

You forgot to add the part where he says that there are DISTINCTIVE roles for each sex, and one is a man the other problem is in the fact that many women (remeber “dignitatis” is addressed mostly to women) are “in COMPETITIVE” roles with men.

 

[shannon_e]

misericordie:

You forgot to add the part where he says that there are DISTINCTIVE roles for each sex, and one is a man the other problem is in the fact that many women (remeber “dignitatis” is addressed mostly to women) are “in COMPETITIVE” roles with men.

Yeah, but that’s going off topic. The OP is gonna yell at you

Must force myself to go offline, now…
peace

 

[ThornGenX]

"Dear Friend "
Look…you can be appalled all ya want…I didn’t write the passage in question and if ya don’t like it, then take it up with Solomon or whoever authored Ecclesiates. It’s not my fault that the passage is like that and you can read the context and it won’t change a bit.

Maybe you’d prefer some more “inclusive language”? Get off us guys and put that defensive stuff back in your sock or wherever you got it, ‘cos you’re whinin’ about something that wasn’t in the intent of my post and I’m not gonna wear your stupid recriminations.

I presented a passage of scripture- period. There’s a lot of 'em like that and that’s not what this is about. If you want somebody to dump on you girls, then you better go pester someone else…because you’ve hung it all on the wrong guy.
Get off…
http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/cart204.gif

Like the brit lady said: “and only the female idiot would demonise men.”

Though I have no problems with the words you use, I admit I do not like the “beer goggle” picture. As a “fat girl” through almost all of my school years who remains morbidly obese, I do have issues with things like this. I could not believe it when I saw that you were the one who posted this picture CM since I almost consider you an unofficial spiritual director to me. Though I do want to lose weight and get in better physical shape, I do not want to do so only so a guy does not have to get drunk to even stand to look at me.:nope:

Just my :twocents: and yes I admit raw nerves and hurt feelings.

 

[mozier]

Hi Misericordie,

I have read your story with great interest. I can definitely relate to what you wrote, for in my own experiences back in my younger days, I came across much the same thing you did with this woman.

In my case, there were several women. By their sins and their embracing of the ways of this world, they had inadvertantly allowed themselves to be used by evil in order to harm others, including myself. At first, they all appeared to be normal, beautiful, kind, and gentle women. But then as time went on, they turned on me because I could not (and would not) compromise myself in their sins. Eventually, they became very hateful and violent to the point where I would have been completely destroyed had not the Lord saved me on each one of these occasions.
In the end, what has always been my balance and strength has been the love and support of my very beautiful wife. Because of her, I am made whole and could never stray or give into the temptations of the other women that we have encountered in our lives. I hope that you will find such a woman for yourself, Misericordie, or if not, then at least open yourself completely up to a loving relationship with our Blessed Mother Mary (who will also help you in your marriage relationship, too!) if you have not already.

God bless and keep you, Misericordie. Thank you for sharing your story.

 

[st_felicity]

misericordie:

However, I guess HISORY must be re-written to please you? Sampson…King David…Adam…Solomon…Umm, yes, men troughout history have been SEDUCED by women

In each of your examples, the women in question have sin of their own to bear, but the men are by far not without fault (and yes I saw that you did touch on that).

Sampson, – was stupid

King David, – was greedy

Adam – was weak

Solomon – was lustful

I guess the problem I have with the direction of this thread is that although some women may be over reacting and defensive, many men here appear to be too ready to look at the sins of the woman rather than examine their own culpability.

In each of the above biblical circumstances, where the woman was a “seductress”, it was the man who was seduced that allowed it to happen. He chose the seduction even though the consequences were clear and unequivocal. The women (it could be argued) had mitigating factors that diminished their culpability–but the men chose sin with full knowledge and consent. (Not to mention each was supposed to be in a position of authority to which the woman was to submit) Who’s sin is greater?******

P.S. CM…that really wasn’t a very nice pic. (in case no one has told you yet… )

 

[st_felicity]

misericordie:

Love this picture, he he. Yes, what you say, well, these feminists have an agenda and what I wrote of MY experience seems to hit in OONE person a raw nerve, and I must ask, WHY???** Freus would probably say, PROJECTION, otherwise there would be no inner anger directed OUTWARDLY**.

I’m assuming you mean Freud…and, …oh man…:nope: , with an original post like yours…I wouldn’t go there if I were you…

 

[Reepicheep]

Misericordie:

How easy it is to say, “Not my fault. Her fault!” How easy to make excuses – and I speak as one with experience at excusing myself, and blaming others.

How come, if you experience lust, if you listen willingly to her talk about her sexual desires, if you willingly visit her apartment, if you willingly give her a massage, if you willingly…
How is any of this not your own choice?

I think, from your first posts, you know the truth. You just don’t like it.

May the peace of Christ, the peace that is beyond our understanding, :dancing: fill your heart.

 

[trailblazer]

Those of you who cut down springbreeze should be ashamed of yourselves. Why did you not really listen to what she was trying to say rather than get all defensive and even abusive? This is not the Catholic way as I know it. If any of you have taken time to read the many posts of springbreeze, you would find that she is a woman of great faith and has offered many people great advise. We are fortunate to be blessed with women and men like her in this forum.

Peace be with you!

Bob

 

[Lorarose]

I cannot believe what I am reading on this thread.
It would almost be funny if it weren’t so sad.

Where is the common sense factor here?

Men and women BOTH are to be held responsible for their own actions.

When we fall - we muct take responsibility for our own failure - and leave the other person’s failure to God.

Quit trying to rationalize your own behavior by labelling someone is “evil”

you chose to have that conversation with her.
Even AFTER that conversation you STILL decided to be alone with her at her apartment - what great judgement!

Now that you feel guilty - she is evil.

That is classic - absolutely classic.

 

[Church_Militant]

Lorarose:

I cannot believe what I am reading on this thread.
It would almost be funny if it weren’t so sad.

Where is the common sense factor here?

Men and women BOTH are to be held responsible for their own actions.

When we fall - we muct take responsibility for our own failure - and leave the other person’s failure to God.

Quit trying to rationalize your own behavior by labelling someone is “evil”

you chose to have that conversation with her.
Even AFTER that conversation you STILL decided to be alone with her at her apartment - what great judgement!

Now that you feel guilty - she is evil.

That is classic - absolutely classic.

Geez! I THOUGHT that was what I was TRYING to say…before I got crawled all over by certain people.

The stupid beer goggles shot is to show just how stupid some of us are…we might go out and get loaded and then do things that we rationally will not do. IMO it is more a shot at us guys than you ladies. If anything it is a good illustration of just how sin will color ones judgement and responses. Which, unless I’ve gone totally senile here, is pretty much what Mirerecordia was getting at in his IP. It was patently not my intention to deride anyone who might be self-conscious about their weight (which I am also) and I apologize for that.

Nightrider…hey I’m sorry about that response if it bothers you but I had tried to be nice about it and the lady just wouldn’t let it go. I frankly could pretty well care less about anyone’s agenda in here…feminazi or otherwise. I do resent anyone implying that I was targetting the ladies with the passges from Ecclesiastes. It has always been a statement of regret from a guy who messed up and is paying the dues for it after the fact. Messed up life, broken heart, yadda yadda yadda… Still, it does cut both ways and all a lady would have to do is change the gender of the passage and it sure would sound the same sort of regret of her feelings as well I would think.

My response to SB was one of frustration at being blasted by her as she clearly read something into my post that was not there and would not let it go. There is a limit to the amount of stuff that anyone should have to take before simply telling someone they are outta line and walking away.

I would like to say that it was a blessing to share with Misericordie and to try to help him overcome a weakness in his life that most all of us have, have battled with more or less success, and have found grace to deal with.

I’d like to say that…

Look at SB’s post in # 52 and see just what I mean.

FYI: I have PM’d Anne Carmel and asked that the graphic be deleted from all the posts that have it.